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re: Honest question for Kentucky fans(except for Mike, apparently)

Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:02 am to
Posted by UKWildcats
Lexington, KY
Member since Mar 2015
18713 posts
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:02 am to
I dont think most of our fans expect multiple titles all the time. We only have 8 since the tourney started..which is only 2nd to UCLA. And that goes right to your point about how difficult the NCAAT is.

UK fans are up in arms because the results have been completely unnacceptable the past several seasons.

How much leeway would Alabama fans have given Saban if he had the first 5 yrs of insane success (which he did) and then suddenly just started winning only 7 or 8 games for 4-5 seasons in a row? Y'all would be pissed.
Posted by Legionfield
Alabama
Member since Nov 2009
3331 posts
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:20 am to
quote:

How much leeway would Alabama fans have given Saban if he had the first 5 yrs of insane success (which he did) and then suddenly just started winning only 7 or 8 games for 4-5 seasons in a row? Y'all would be pissed.



Valid points. We would definitely be pissed about 7-8 wins. I wouldn't...but just because I remember Mike Dubose, Mike Price, and Mike Shula. All of our bandwagon fans have no clue who those guys are. I just wonder if football is an apples to apples comparison? Does Kentucky's lack of "success" in basketball translate to Alabama only winning 7 or 8 games in football? Basketball teams are much smaller and it is easier to have more competitive teams in basketball than it is in football. Football is an enormous operation that only the big boys survive and thrive. Basketball, on the other hand, you routinely have little guys like FAU and Loyola Chicago make runs that just wouldn't happen in football because of the sheer size of an 85 man football roster. For example, Vandy rarely beats Alabama in football. It last happened in 1984, i believe. You routinely have small schools upset the big guys in basketball, whether it be March Madness or the regular season......
This post was edited on 2/26/24 at 9:23 am
Posted by UKWildcats
Lexington, KY
Member since Mar 2015
18713 posts
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:23 am to
Yeah, it's not easy to make an apples to apples comparison between the sports because of that stuff. Still, more often than not it's the Kentucky's Kansas' North Carolina's etc making those deep runs every year.

A point I've made numerous times on tRant when comparing Kentucky basketball to Alabama football is that if we had the benefit of being awarded championships the same way Alabama has (poll era, BCS, playoff etc) over the years, Kentucky would have upwards of 30 national titles. Instead, we've got 8 because we have to play in the tournament. Which, incidentally, is now coming to football
Posted by Legionfield
Alabama
Member since Nov 2009
3331 posts
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:25 am to
Very true, and teams like Georgia are going to have a lot harder time dominating the sport. That is a great point that I haven't thought of. It could have been vastly different if we would have had a CFP for the last 50 years.
This post was edited on 2/26/24 at 9:27 am
Posted by Lynxrufus2012
Central Kentucky
Member since Mar 2020
18255 posts
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:40 am to
When you have seven guys on the NBA all star team and more players in the league than any other school you expect that talent to translate to championships. Look we know it is hard to win the NCAA. But we don’t expect double digit loss seasons, not sniffing the SEC championship or flaming out in the tournament. We sure as hell don’t expect NIT losses.
Cal has underachieved with the talent he has. That is obvious. Why has he? He was slow to recruit shooters, preferring athletes, he refused to change up defenses and his late game decisions are baffling. Every coach in the country fouls to keep a team from hitting a three to send the game into overtime. Except Cal. Every coach knows to call a timeout when the other team goes on a run, except Cal. He just sits there. He has his best players sitting on the bench at crunch time and he lets the best player on the other team have the ball when the game is on the line. No strategy, no denial.

I also wonder how Kansas, Duke & UNC get so many good players to return while we get guys leaving that go in the late first or even second round. Especially guys that could improve their draft stock.

Of course the Shaedon Sharp debacle still rankles. We had guys playing injured and he didn’t play that prick. Maybe we beat St Peters that way. But Cal cares about the NBA more than UK.

One win doesn’t change all this. I have no doubt Mississippi State thumps us. Cal & team will still be basking in beating Alabama. Just like after Auburn.
Posted by kywildcatfanone
Wildcat Country!
Member since Oct 2012
135720 posts
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:44 am to
It is difficult to win 6 games in a row in March/April, but with the talent we have year in and year out, we should be getting to the second weekend every year, and we aren't even doing that consistently anymore.

Look at this year's team. Beat Auburn and Bama, but lose to LSU. I could see this team making a final 4 run, but I could also see them as a 5/6 seed losing to an 11/12. Mostly because I just don't trust Cal's coaching style anymore.
Posted by kywildcatfanone
Wildcat Country!
Member since Oct 2012
135720 posts
Posted on 2/26/24 at 9:44 am to
It is difficult to win 6 games in a row in March/April, but with the talent we have year in and year out, we should be getting to the second weekend every year, and we aren't even doing that consistently anymore.

Look at this year's team. Beat Auburn and Bama, but lose to LSU. I could see this team making a final 4 run, but I could also see them as a 5/6 seed losing to an 11/12. Mostly because I just don't trust Cal's coaching style anymore.
Posted by Legionfield
Alabama
Member since Nov 2009
3331 posts
Posted on 2/26/24 at 10:07 am to
Great Discussion! Trying to figure it out...just playing devil's advocate. You also have to remember that the top players...all have huge egos. They have been the best for most of their young lives. You can't coach them the way coaches have in the past. They will leave. I think that is a big reason Coach Saban hung it up. The landscape has changed. It's is incredibly difficult to get a guy that is only going to be there one year to "buy-in" and then you(Kentucky) have a team full of those guys. Other teams are lucky to have 2 on the same team.
This post was edited on 2/26/24 at 10:08 am
Posted by kywildcatfanone
Wildcat Country!
Member since Oct 2012
135720 posts
Posted on 2/26/24 at 10:19 am to
quote:

You also have to remember that the top players...all have huge egos.


and lots of money in today's world.

Back to Cal, so another thing that drives me crazy, and probably others, if I look at this year's team is defense. It's one thing to not want to play zone ever, but when your team is getting layup drilled, maybe you need to try something different, anything different.

Also, I look at a player like big Z. He has tons of potential, but can't get on the floor because of his defense. He's been on the team since October. Why is his defense not better in February? That's 5 months. Why is this teams total defense not better? Yes, they have been better the last week, but they should have been better on defense months ago.
Is that Cal? Is that player ego? Not sure, but his job is to manage all of it for his $9M a year.
Posted by UKWildcats
Lexington, KY
Member since Mar 2015
18713 posts
Posted on 2/26/24 at 10:21 am to
Normally defense is a staple of Cal's teams...that's what has me baffled as to why we aren't better on that end,

We do seem to have improved some on it the last couple of games though.
Posted by GamecockUltimate
Columbia,SC
Member since Feb 2019
9163 posts
Posted on 2/26/24 at 10:22 am to
quote:

Personally, I expect Kentucky to win the SEC and SECT most years, and at a minimum get to the Sweet 16.


respectfully I think the SEC has caught up. Its like SC or LSU expecting to be top 2 in baseball every year, its just not possible anymore.
Posted by UKWildcats
Lexington, KY
Member since Mar 2015
18713 posts
Posted on 2/26/24 at 10:25 am to
That is definitely a fair point. The league is a lot more competitive now than it has ever been.

Still, we need tp be winning it more often than not. That is the standard here.
Posted by Legionfield
Alabama
Member since Nov 2009
3331 posts
Posted on 2/26/24 at 10:30 am to
You could be onto something Gamecock. However I wonder if Cal were to back off getting the top 5 players in the country every year and got some more pure shooters and/or role players he might have a better go of it. Also the top players usually have one thing in common besides ego. They don't want to defend..lol....purely an outsider's perspective. Correct me if need be Cat fans!
Posted by kywildcatfanone
Wildcat Country!
Member since Oct 2012
135720 posts
Posted on 2/26/24 at 11:47 am to
I get it, but Kentucky should not be coming back to the field. If anything we should be like Secretariat in the last 1/4 of the Derby holding a steady lead on Sham the entire way.

You can be Sham in this example.
Posted by GetmorewithLes
UK Basketball Fan
Member since Jan 2011
22155 posts
Posted on 2/26/24 at 12:53 pm to
quote:

What is your complaint about Cal? He recruits like Saban. The difference is that Saban’s players had to stay 3 years before they could go pro. Cal’s are one and dones.


Nick encouraged stars to stay as long as he could. Cal encourages players to leave as soon as possible. He is much more proud of his NBA roster than his NCAA trophycase…
Posted by Lynxrufus2012
Central Kentucky
Member since Mar 2020
18255 posts
Posted on 2/26/24 at 1:14 pm to
Sham ran the second fastest Derby ever. The sham is Cal’s in game decision making. He is more like Shoemaker misjudging the finish line on Gallant Man in 1957. Had the best horse but screwed up. Only that was a one time thing for him, Cal miscoaches games end often.
This post was edited on 2/26/24 at 1:17 pm
Posted by captdalton
Member since Feb 2021
19970 posts
Posted on 2/26/24 at 1:33 pm to
Most of this has been covered. But I think a major issue is expectations of Kentucky fans. The playing field is much more level now than it used to be, so it is harder to win. Yet there is a sense of entitlement among Kentucky basketball fans based upon the past. Just as there is a sense of entitlement among Alabama football fans.

I think you have to ask who would be better than Cal? And would he be worth the money?

There is no doubt there is a whole set of problems that come with coaching a new roster of blue-chip 18 year olds every year. But it is a problem a lot of other coaches would like to have.
Posted by Legionfield
Alabama
Member since Nov 2009
3331 posts
Posted on 2/26/24 at 3:18 pm to
You may have hit the nail on the head, Cap.
Posted by The Winner
Member since Nov 2016
8272 posts
Posted on 2/26/24 at 3:21 pm to
I don't think the complaint would be as big if they didn't keep losing to teams like St Peters in the tournament
Posted by Zander Kelley
Member since Jan 2024
346 posts
Posted on 2/26/24 at 3:46 pm to
UK scored the most points in the history of the program Saturday...Discuss.
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