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re: ESPN - Ranking All 36 Teams to Make the College Football Playoff
Posted on 12/13/22 at 4:50 am to Pettifogger
Posted on 12/13/22 at 4:50 am to Pettifogger
Articles like this very conveniently ignore the very thing that impartial commentators said made LSU stand out historically. It wasn't just what they did but who they did it against.
If you look at an array of statistics regarding Mater Dei's greatest team, you'd find some eye popping numbers. Points, yards, score differential. You could then compare those numbers to a college team and you would easily walk away thinking Mater Dei was stronger. But we would know immediately how silly this idea would be. They play high schools. With the roster depletions and shortened schedules of 2020, all a team had to do to truly dominate was to buck the trend of players not participating. Basically take a very good team from any other year and stick them in 2020 and they would look more than very good. Saban should get credit for holding it together when many other coaches couldn't but that's pretty much all that happened.
The other thing is that what players tend to do in the NFL has a major impact on how impressed people are as they look back at the teams they played for in college. A big reason why 2001 Miami is mentioned so often is because of the incredible number of good pros it produced. So as Joe, Ja'Marr and Justin continue to light up the NFL, the disparity between the two is only going to get clearer and clearer.
Mac Jones ain't about to light up the world.
If you look at an array of statistics regarding Mater Dei's greatest team, you'd find some eye popping numbers. Points, yards, score differential. You could then compare those numbers to a college team and you would easily walk away thinking Mater Dei was stronger. But we would know immediately how silly this idea would be. They play high schools. With the roster depletions and shortened schedules of 2020, all a team had to do to truly dominate was to buck the trend of players not participating. Basically take a very good team from any other year and stick them in 2020 and they would look more than very good. Saban should get credit for holding it together when many other coaches couldn't but that's pretty much all that happened.
The other thing is that what players tend to do in the NFL has a major impact on how impressed people are as they look back at the teams they played for in college. A big reason why 2001 Miami is mentioned so often is because of the incredible number of good pros it produced. So as Joe, Ja'Marr and Justin continue to light up the NFL, the disparity between the two is only going to get clearer and clearer.
Mac Jones ain't about to light up the world.
This post was edited on 12/13/22 at 5:37 am
1
Posted on 12/13/22 at 4:51 am to Pettifogger
.
This post was edited on 12/13/22 at 5:36 am
Posted on 12/13/22 at 6:36 am to Jk121
quote:
Top 5 spots are the last 5 years Short term memory
Teams have become more efficient
Posted on 12/13/22 at 6:57 am to gamecockman12
quote:
quote:
Holy shite, there's some pissed off frickers over on the Tiger Rant. I mean seriously pissed off
They're losing their shite right now.
I live in Louisiana. Hear me now and believe me later. These trashy frickin' coon asses over here are irrationally sensitive about that 2019 team.
Posted on 12/13/22 at 7:03 am to Pandy Fackler
quote:
These trashy frickin' coon asses over here are irrationally sensitive about that 2019 team.
Not as sensitive as Alabama fans desperately using a COVID title to try and upstage it written by a Mizzou alumni hack.
Maybe Alabama isn’t doing so hot recently if they have to do that.
This post was edited on 12/13/22 at 7:05 am
Posted on 12/13/22 at 7:20 am to Sun God
quote:
Four page thread on there. Figured it would be 20+ pages
It's more about the reactions within those four pages than the actual length of the thread.
Posted on 12/13/22 at 7:53 am to invidiousEndures
First argument:
dubious. In the SEC there were plenty of motivated rosters. Would argue motivation was heightened as players were aware of the “SEC only” schedule gauntlets and playing conference teams they don’t often face. I know for a fact Kirby got the Dawgs up for every game, irrespective of we got beat by more prepared teams on game day.
Second argument:
This is recency bias, and is a major factor you should eliminate when determining best college team.
Talented teams are usually better, but people are constantly underrating mental focus, relentless effort, and execution when the stakes are highest as equally critical factors to make a championship team. (See Dugan in BigXII CG 4th quarter. Effort beat talent when the ball was in his hands.)
Personally I am fine to say that Bama was the more talented team, perhaps, but 2019 LSU was the best team. They won games against tougher opponents in more hostile environments when the pressure was highest. They found ways to win against great talent, sometimes in spite of their defense and Head coach. That’s an accolade, not a criticism.
quote:
Basically take a very good team from any other year and stick them in 2020 and they would look more than very good. Saban should get credit for holding it together when many other coaches couldn't
dubious. In the SEC there were plenty of motivated rosters. Would argue motivation was heightened as players were aware of the “SEC only” schedule gauntlets and playing conference teams they don’t often face. I know for a fact Kirby got the Dawgs up for every game, irrespective of we got beat by more prepared teams on game day.
Second argument:
quote:
what players tend to do in the NFL has a major impact on how impressed people are as they look back at the teams they played for in college
This is recency bias, and is a major factor you should eliminate when determining best college team.
Talented teams are usually better, but people are constantly underrating mental focus, relentless effort, and execution when the stakes are highest as equally critical factors to make a championship team. (See Dugan in BigXII CG 4th quarter. Effort beat talent when the ball was in his hands.)
Personally I am fine to say that Bama was the more talented team, perhaps, but 2019 LSU was the best team. They won games against tougher opponents in more hostile environments when the pressure was highest. They found ways to win against great talent, sometimes in spite of their defense and Head coach. That’s an accolade, not a criticism.
Posted on 12/13/22 at 8:10 am to Demosthenian
quote:
Talented teams are usually better, but people are constantly underrating mental focus, relentless effort, and execution when the stakes are highest as equally critical factors to make a championship team. (See Dugan in BigXII CG 4th quarter. Effort beat talent when the ball was in his hands.)
Success in the NFL is not one in which focus, relentless effort and execution becomes immaterial. The farther up the chain of competition you go, the LESS able a player is to rely strictly on talent.
What you're getting at I think is the synergy among teams, or lack thereof, that can work against or camouflage individual talent. But to the extent that that occurs, individual success as exemplified at higher levels of competition can never redound to the *discredit* of the estimation of a former team. One can never say "these players did really well in the NFL so maybe their college team were *LESS* capable than we might think." It can mean that the team wasn't necessarily any better because other factors related to lack of synergy got in the way but that's it. To put it another way, we might recognize a ceiling that was never achieved by a former team but we will never lower the height of the ceiling.
If we know nothing about the former team but only about how well individual players do in the NFL, our predictions about how good that team was aren't going to be that accurate for the reasons you mentioned. We might be able to gauge what the ceiling was, but how likely is it that they reached it? But we don't lack that knowledge. Once you establish that that synergy was there, that all elements were in fact working well together, then you have the basis of further refining your estimation of the strength of a team by looking at the success of individual players at higher levels of competition.
This post was edited on 12/13/22 at 8:18 am
Posted on 12/13/22 at 8:23 am to Jumpinjack
I sort of feel bad for LSU. No matter what they do they will always remain in the shadows. 
Posted on 12/13/22 at 8:25 am to invidiousEndures
NFL accomplishments are often used to burnish college teams unjustifiably. Miami ‘01 was a great team, but no one was saying they were the best of all time until 10 years later. No one was saying at the time they were even better than ‘99 FSU or ‘96 Florida, both easy comparisons, much less ‘95 Nebraska or the earlier ‘80’s Miami teams.
The same is happening to 2020 Bama. They are ascending with time while LSU 2019 is stalling, as people move to overweight individual careers and underweight the execution of the season itself.
There are also no Rudys in the NFL, so I disagree with your starting premise on citing NFL talent. To use an example close to home, there is a Stetson Bennett in college leading a team to the natty, and he is better in college at QB than a Super Bowl-winning No.1 pick— Matthew Stafford—was in college. (Aaron Murray, close after and in the same system / coaching staff, was also better)
The same is happening to 2020 Bama. They are ascending with time while LSU 2019 is stalling, as people move to overweight individual careers and underweight the execution of the season itself.
There are also no Rudys in the NFL, so I disagree with your starting premise on citing NFL talent. To use an example close to home, there is a Stetson Bennett in college leading a team to the natty, and he is better in college at QB than a Super Bowl-winning No.1 pick— Matthew Stafford—was in college. (Aaron Murray, close after and in the same system / coaching staff, was also better)
Posted on 12/13/22 at 8:53 am to TideWarrior
How so?
Posted on 12/13/22 at 9:08 am to gamecockman12
quote:
They bested an SEC-only schedule
It's always a bragging point, but they never mention that the SEC wasn't all that great in 2020.
Posted on 12/13/22 at 9:22 am to Demosthenian
quote:
There are also no Rudys in the NFL, so I disagree with your starting premise on citing NFL talent. To use an example close to home, there is a Stetson Bennett in college leading a team to the natty, and he is better in college at QB than a Super Bowl-winning No.1 pick— Matthew Stafford—was in college. (Aaron Murray, close after and in the same system / coaching staff, was also better)
Rudy was never a successful player at any level. We aren't talking about bench riders who were allowed a few plays to honor their hard work. We're talking about elite level talent who distinguish themselves among other elite level talents by showing focus, determination and other "intangibles" at that elite level. That ain't Rudy buddy. You seem to have confused that which is required with that which distinguishes.
Know who else was a better college quarterback than Matthew Stafford? Joe Burrow.
You seem to be missing the point that all of non-talent related attributes have already been displayed at one level and are currently be displayed at a higher one and that with regard to the latter, we already see a discrepancy between players from the two teams in question. None of your examples really capture this reality which makes them rather useless as case studies.
This post was edited on 12/13/22 at 9:33 am
Posted on 12/13/22 at 10:51 am to invidiousEndures
Good lord, LSU's whole existence has become that 2019 team. Sad. Very sad.
Posted on 12/13/22 at 11:22 am to SouthernInsanity
quote:
It's always a bragging point, but they never mention that the SEC wasn't all that great in 2020.
The SEC is never all that great, top to bottom.
Half of the teams are mediocre (below average).
2/3 to 3/4 of the teams don't have a winning record in conference play.
Every. Single. Year.
Posted on 12/13/22 at 12:51 pm to Funky Tide 8
I mean it’s a consensus that the 2019 team is the best team ever along with 2001 Miami and 1995 Nebraska. It’s a highly celebrated team that’s arguably the most mainstream team college football has had along with 2004 USC. I honestly think as realistic football fans that ESPN has conjured up that article for clicks simply.
2020 Alabama was a terrific team, but that team was not on the level of a 2019 LSU squad. I’d argue 2019 Alabama was better, as Tua was an incredible and elite college quarterback and leader. Mac Jones was a good quarterback but a Tua led Alabama team the year prior was better. As an LSU fan, Ive watched plenty of great Alabama teams and they’d make up 1/4th of an “all time top 25 greatest football teams” article, but this isn’t it.
2020 Alabama was a terrific team, but that team was not on the level of a 2019 LSU squad. I’d argue 2019 Alabama was better, as Tua was an incredible and elite college quarterback and leader. Mac Jones was a good quarterback but a Tua led Alabama team the year prior was better. As an LSU fan, Ive watched plenty of great Alabama teams and they’d make up 1/4th of an “all time top 25 greatest football teams” article, but this isn’t it.
This post was edited on 12/13/22 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 12/13/22 at 12:56 pm to gamecockman12
This was only done to Garner attention and controversy.
How can you put this year's Georgia team without finishing it all???
They know LSU 2019 #1
How can you put this year's Georgia team without finishing it all???
They know LSU 2019 #1
Posted on 12/13/22 at 12:59 pm to Robber DeNiro
Pretty much, though there are many great teams Saban has fielded. It’s just cheap heat by ESPN. Their rankings overall are horrid, check out their 75th anniversary NBA article. It’s simply for clicks.
Posted on 12/13/22 at 1:27 pm to NJLSU
quote:
I mean it’s a consensus that the 2019 team is the best team ever
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