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re: Does Missouri have the staying power?
Posted on 2/10/15 at 6:49 pm to Jagd Tiger
Posted on 2/10/15 at 6:49 pm to Jagd Tiger
Where is the diss on Snyder? He is a good coach that wins with hardly any high ranked recruits. When he left, Ron Prince was not able to keep it going. In my opinion one of the reasons he couldn't keep it going is because he isn't near as good of a coach as Snyder and needed better talent on the roster if he was going to continue in KSU's winning ways under Snyder.
My point was this is what I don't want to see happen at Mizzou.
A lot of programs would like to have Pinkel as a HC. Same for Snyder. It's hard to find coaches that can do what they do ie...we need to improve recruiting for when Pinkel decides he is done at Mizzou so that we can have a better chance to continue to be a winning program.
Yes we recruit better than KSU. Much better, but we also play better competition against better athletes and have more high level teams in our own conference to compete against for said recruits.
I never said no one can recruit to Mizzou. Yes it would be ludicrous If I had said that. But top 25 recruiting classes are not the norm. At this point it doesn't bother me a lot. Because Pinkel has shown he knows what he is doing But It would be ludicrous to say even Pinkel wouldn't mind having his choice of top players.
The bottom line is winning will fix all your problems. Continue to win and every year we will find our way on to more top tier athletes top 3 list.
As for now. Enjoy the ride. This is the best Mizzou football has been since the 60's.
MIZ
My point was this is what I don't want to see happen at Mizzou.
A lot of programs would like to have Pinkel as a HC. Same for Snyder. It's hard to find coaches that can do what they do ie...we need to improve recruiting for when Pinkel decides he is done at Mizzou so that we can have a better chance to continue to be a winning program.
Yes we recruit better than KSU. Much better, but we also play better competition against better athletes and have more high level teams in our own conference to compete against for said recruits.
I never said no one can recruit to Mizzou. Yes it would be ludicrous If I had said that. But top 25 recruiting classes are not the norm. At this point it doesn't bother me a lot. Because Pinkel has shown he knows what he is doing But It would be ludicrous to say even Pinkel wouldn't mind having his choice of top players.
The bottom line is winning will fix all your problems. Continue to win and every year we will find our way on to more top tier athletes top 3 list.
As for now. Enjoy the ride. This is the best Mizzou football has been since the 60's.
MIZ
2
Posted on 2/10/15 at 6:54 pm to BigOrangeBri
quote:
We're just saying the east has been down the last couple of years, because it has.
Except that narrative is completely inaccurate. 2013 was the second best year for the division in this century. 14 was below average, but not the worst it's been.
Posted on 2/10/15 at 7:05 pm to CedarVol
Two years in a row they have won the SEC East. They are also recruiting better now. It would be foolish to think they will not have staying power.
Posted on 2/10/15 at 7:11 pm to ford1911
quote:
At this point it doesn't bother me a lot. Because Pinkel has shown he knows what he is doing But It would be ludicrous to say even Pinkel wouldn't mind having his choice of top players.
nope doesn't bother me either, and I agree, if Pinkel wouldn't like to recruit a lot of 4 and 5 stars, I'm guessing he wouldn't offer them in the first place, right?
Either way, it's obvious the "stars don't matter" fools we hear out of the Mizzou boards are refuted even by Pinkel himself, or they must not believe their eyes when they see the offer listings. At least some of the current staff can lay claim to being good developers, the DL and RB positions seem to out perform the recruitment ratings at Mizzou. I guess part of the point is that the Sabans and Meyers don't have to "out develop" their recruits, they just go out and get entire classes of 4 and 5 stars that are mostly ready to play now.
No the scarry smart Prince was no old man Snyder, but if you look at Snyders coaching tree it has some significant branches on it. Trying to make fewer mistakes than your opponent is good football, there is nothing wrong with it, but it's still not the same thing as outsmarting the other coach on game day.
4 conf. wins + 4 ooc and a bowl game victory, yes it's nice to win, hooray~
"enjoy the ride"... certianly! 
Posted on 2/10/15 at 8:46 pm to CedarVol
A lot of Mizzou fans won't mention this because they are so far up everyone's arse here to fit in but the "just wait until you play the real SEC" narrative acts like the Big 8/Big 12 weren't and aren't major football power players. Somebody mentioned 2007 SEC in this thread. Wasn't that the year Mizzou was basically in the quarterfinal and lost to OU who played in the national title game? Weren't Texas, OU, and Nebraska in like half of the national title games of the 90's and early 00's. I think we are aware of what good football is.
This post was edited on 2/10/15 at 8:47 pm
Posted on 2/11/15 at 7:51 am to CedarVol
Has anyone ever checked Missouri's footballs?
Posted on 2/11/15 at 8:45 am to Scoreboard
Pinkel deserves some credit, he knows how to pull of wins.
But I am going to try and quantify how Missouri has had some lucky "advantages" the past two years when they've won the East. The East hasn't been it's strongest, but I don't buy that it is abnormally down, just somewhere around average to a bit below average.
These are more of the reasons why Missouri has been able to win the East.
2013 -
Missouri's West opponents record - 14-10
USC's West opponents record - 9-15
UGA's West opponents record - 22-3
TN's West opponents record - 23-2
UF's West opponents record - 14-10
USC finished #2 in East and really should have won it. They had the easiest West road and blew a game against TN. Missouri had advantage of playing 2nd best East team at home as well. Missouri caught UGA the week after they had been decimated by injuries in an intense games against LSU and TN. Missouri had just played ARK St and Vandy. They also had UF and TN at home. Missouri was probably at best the 3rd best team in the East that year and because of scheduling "luck" they were able to win it. Kudos to them.
2014
Missouri's W opponents - 13-11
Georgia's W opponents - 14-10
Tennessee's W opponents - 21-4
Florida's W opponents - 20-5
USC's W opponents - 15-9
Second year in a row they've had the second easiest W schedule. They also got the second best East team at home again. They played UGA the week after Gurley was suspended. They played TN the week AJ Johnson was suspended. I give them props for pulling off the UF and USC wins because they really started both of those teams slides. But once again they were at best the second best team in the East but due to another team sharting themselves and their advantages in the schedule they were able to win it.
But I am going to try and quantify how Missouri has had some lucky "advantages" the past two years when they've won the East. The East hasn't been it's strongest, but I don't buy that it is abnormally down, just somewhere around average to a bit below average.
These are more of the reasons why Missouri has been able to win the East.
2013 -
Missouri's West opponents record - 14-10
USC's West opponents record - 9-15
UGA's West opponents record - 22-3
TN's West opponents record - 23-2
UF's West opponents record - 14-10
USC finished #2 in East and really should have won it. They had the easiest West road and blew a game against TN. Missouri had advantage of playing 2nd best East team at home as well. Missouri caught UGA the week after they had been decimated by injuries in an intense games against LSU and TN. Missouri had just played ARK St and Vandy. They also had UF and TN at home. Missouri was probably at best the 3rd best team in the East that year and because of scheduling "luck" they were able to win it. Kudos to them.
2014
Missouri's W opponents - 13-11
Georgia's W opponents - 14-10
Tennessee's W opponents - 21-4
Florida's W opponents - 20-5
USC's W opponents - 15-9
Second year in a row they've had the second easiest W schedule. They also got the second best East team at home again. They played UGA the week after Gurley was suspended. They played TN the week AJ Johnson was suspended. I give them props for pulling off the UF and USC wins because they really started both of those teams slides. But once again they were at best the second best team in the East but due to another team sharting themselves and their advantages in the schedule they were able to win it.
Posted on 2/11/15 at 8:47 am to CedarVol
Keep hoping and wishing on that lucky star
Posted on 2/11/15 at 9:00 am to Ericvol2096
Lol! Mizzou was the 3rd best team in the East in 13 huh?
Has there ever, in the history of this board, been this much consternation on whether a division winner was lucky or not? I'm guessing no. It's probably never even been brought up, and I guarantee had UT, UF or UGA won the division under the exact same circumstances it never would have been questioned.
The real issue is this. SEC fans have a very self centered view. Most refuse to admit any good football is played outside of the league. Furthermore, the Big 6 take it to a different level and no team outside their group could possibly be any good. If another team does happen to win...they were lucky, division was down, etc. almost physically incapable of giving another team credit for just being better. When Mizzou came into the league, despite some recent success, the above mentality led these fans to (inexplicably) believe they were adding another Vandy. Our first year in the league we were historically ravaged by injuries, had a poor year and it validated their thinking. Now, minds made up, there is just simply no way we are any good and the only possible explanation is pure luck. Some probably don't even realize they are doing it
Has there ever, in the history of this board, been this much consternation on whether a division winner was lucky or not? I'm guessing no. It's probably never even been brought up, and I guarantee had UT, UF or UGA won the division under the exact same circumstances it never would have been questioned.
The real issue is this. SEC fans have a very self centered view. Most refuse to admit any good football is played outside of the league. Furthermore, the Big 6 take it to a different level and no team outside their group could possibly be any good. If another team does happen to win...they were lucky, division was down, etc. almost physically incapable of giving another team credit for just being better. When Mizzou came into the league, despite some recent success, the above mentality led these fans to (inexplicably) believe they were adding another Vandy. Our first year in the league we were historically ravaged by injuries, had a poor year and it validated their thinking. Now, minds made up, there is just simply no way we are any good and the only possible explanation is pure luck. Some probably don't even realize they are doing it
Posted on 2/11/15 at 9:06 am to Ericvol2096
I'll admit, we didn't face the strongest West teams the previous 2 seasons...but that is just the way it worked out. We went 4-0 against them in that time though.
Both years we have lost to the team who finished 2nd in the division. Even if they lost 1 against the west, they would have held the tiebreaker against us.
I see his point, but when it came down to it, we got the job done and SC and Georgia didnt.
Both years we have lost to the team who finished 2nd in the division. Even if they lost 1 against the west, they would have held the tiebreaker against us.
I see his point, but when it came down to it, we got the job done and SC and Georgia didnt.
Posted on 2/11/15 at 9:13 am to JesusQuintana
To answer your question JQ yes this has happened many times. The winner of the East isn't always the best team.
In 2010 SC in my opinion was not the best team in the East and very likely was the worst East team to ever play in the SEC Title game. Many questioned them and the way they won the division.
In 2007 EVERYONE thought UGA was the best team in the East and they likely were. Pretty sure they ended up #2 in the entire country that year. TN got drilled by Cal, UF and Bama that season but was able to get lucky and catch UGA on an off day in Neyland and routed them to win the tiebreaker. TN also squeeked by Vandy, USC and UK down the stretch to hold on.
It doesn't mean you didn't fairly WIN the East to say there were likely a better team or two each year than yours. But sometimes the best team doesn't win the division. I and many others feel Missouri has been able to miraculously have circumstances to help them do that two years in a row.
It doesn't change the history books just perception.
In 2010 SC in my opinion was not the best team in the East and very likely was the worst East team to ever play in the SEC Title game. Many questioned them and the way they won the division.
In 2007 EVERYONE thought UGA was the best team in the East and they likely were. Pretty sure they ended up #2 in the entire country that year. TN got drilled by Cal, UF and Bama that season but was able to get lucky and catch UGA on an off day in Neyland and routed them to win the tiebreaker. TN also squeeked by Vandy, USC and UK down the stretch to hold on.
It doesn't mean you didn't fairly WIN the East to say there were likely a better team or two each year than yours. But sometimes the best team doesn't win the division. I and many others feel Missouri has been able to miraculously have circumstances to help them do that two years in a row.
It doesn't change the history books just perception.
This post was edited on 2/11/15 at 9:16 am
Posted on 2/11/15 at 9:34 am to Ericvol2096
Of course you feel that way. I explained why above.
If Mizzou was the 3rd best team in the East in 13 then that was the greatest division in the history of college football. We can make a legitimate claim to being the 3rd best team in the country that year.
If Mizzou was the 3rd best team in the East in 13 then that was the greatest division in the history of college football. We can make a legitimate claim to being the 3rd best team in the country that year.
Posted on 2/11/15 at 10:08 am to Ericvol2096
Will TN ever beat Mizzou in conf play?
Serious question
Serious question
Posted on 2/11/15 at 10:08 am to Ericvol2096
quote:
Pinkel deserves some credit, he knows how to pull of wins.
But I am going to try and quantify how Missouri has had some lucky "advantages" the past two years when they've won the East. The East hasn't been it's strongest, but I don't buy that it is abnormally down, just somewhere around average to a bit below average.
These are more of the reasons why Missouri has been able to win the East.
2013 -
Missouri's West opponents record - 14-10 (Actually Ole Miss and A&M were 8-5 and 9-4 which adds up to 17-9 but don't let facts get in the way of your narrative)
USC's West opponents record - 9-15
UGA's West opponents record - 22-3 (actually 22-5)
TN's West opponents record - 23-2 (actually 23-5)
UF's West opponents record - 14-10
USC finished #2 in East and really should have won it. (except they lost more SEC games than Mizzou hence why they came in second, so they really should not have won it) They had the easiest West road and blew a game against TN. Missouri had advantage of playing 2nd best East team at home as well. Missouri caught UGA the week after they had been decimated by injuries (The game in which Mizzou's starting QB was injured and they won in Athens with a backup freshman) in an intense games against LSU and TN. Missouri had just played ARK St and Vandy. (they also beat They also had UF and TN at home. Missouri was probably at best the 3rd best team in the East that year and because of scheduling "luck" they were able to win it. Kudos to them.
2014
Missouri's W opponents - 13-11 (Actually 15-11)
Georgia's W opponents - 14-10
Tennessee's W opponents - 21-4 (Because teams like Tenn insist on the permanent opponent. You can't have your Alabama game but then complain about it as well)
Florida's W opponents - 20-5
USC's W opponents - 15-9
Second year in a row they've had the second easiest W schedule. They also got the second best East team at home again. They played UGA the week after Gurley was suspended. They played TN the week AJ Johnson was suspended. (We suspended our potential all-American/first round NFL draft pick for the season) I give them props for pulling off the UF and USC wins because they really started both of those teams slides. But once again they were at best the second best team in the East but due to another team sharting themselves and their advantages in the schedule they were able to win it.
Cleared it up a little. Didn't fact check all of the records as most of them seemed to be wrong.
This post was edited on 2/11/15 at 10:11 am
Posted on 2/11/15 at 10:08 am to Ericvol2096
When did tOBC go on his rant about how the div is decided in the SEC?
Anyway it's clear why the East was/is down, all aboard the Lane train wreck at Knoxville and the dumpster fire at Florida. Mizzou could replace one of you being down but not both. As the swimmer pointed out, losing to the 2nd place team both years does nothing for the perception that we are hierarchically the greater team.
The only thing that would change that is winning, but unfortunately we don't and haven't had the coaching chops to win on the big stage. Maybe Odom and Henson will finally change that for us, who knows, but right now there is a clear pattern to show what we are capable of,, in a really good year, good enough to finish second.
Posted on 2/11/15 at 10:19 am to Jagd Tiger
*checks calender and nods*
I was getting worried. As you all know we have a strict quota of a minimum, minimum mind you, of 4 threads a month talking about how Mizzou got lucky to win the East the last two seasons and how they can't compete. I know everyone is watching Basketball and football fever is at a low pitch at the moment... but the pride of the SEC Rant is at stake here.
Obviously the burden is going to be on you East fans to carry on this proud tradition. The West will pitch in when it can but we are all busy mocking each other. Remember, its lucky breaks and the East being down, not we keep losing and you guys keep winning.
Now get out there and make some quality excuses!
I was getting worried. As you all know we have a strict quota of a minimum, minimum mind you, of 4 threads a month talking about how Mizzou got lucky to win the East the last two seasons and how they can't compete. I know everyone is watching Basketball and football fever is at a low pitch at the moment... but the pride of the SEC Rant is at stake here.
Obviously the burden is going to be on you East fans to carry on this proud tradition. The West will pitch in when it can but we are all busy mocking each other. Remember, its lucky breaks and the East being down, not we keep losing and you guys keep winning.
Now get out there and make some quality excuses!
Posted on 2/11/15 at 10:34 am to kilo
I apologize in advance for the formatting.
Here are the Massey Ratings for those seasons:
2001: 2(Florida), 3(Tennessee), 15(South Carolina), 16(Georgia), 66(Kentucky), 90(Vanderbilt)
2002: 4(Georgia), 27 (Florida), 31(Tennessee), 49(Kentucky), 62(South Carolina), 90(Vanderbilt)
2003: 4(Georgia), 17(Tennessee), 19(Florida), 47(South Carolina), 80(Kentucky), 103(Vanderbilt)
2004: 10(Georgia), 18(Tennessee), 29(Florida), 53(South Carolina), 110(Vanderbilt), 125(Kentucky)
2005: 10(Georgia), 13(Florida), 37(South Carolina), 43(Tennessee), 64(Vanderbilt), 95(Kentucky)
2006: 1(Florida), 15(Tennessee), 17(Georgia), 21(South Carolina), 25(Kentucky), 57(Vanderbilt)
2007: 6(Georgia), 10(Florida), 14(Tennessee), 23(Kentucky), 30(South Carolina), 52(Vanderbilt)
2013: 3(Missouri), 10(South Carolina), 25 (Georgia), 30(Vanderbilt), 49(Tennessee), 63(Florida), 111(Kentucky)
2014: 6(Georgia), 12(Missouri), 26(Florida), 28(Tennessee), 32(South Carolina), 57(Kentucky), 97(Vanderbilt)
Here are the Massey Ratings for those seasons:
quote:
2001: 4,3,13,22
2002: 3
2003: 7,15,24
2004: 13,7
2005: 10,12
2006: 1,25,23
2007: 2,12,13
2001: 2(Florida), 3(Tennessee), 15(South Carolina), 16(Georgia), 66(Kentucky), 90(Vanderbilt)
2002: 4(Georgia), 27 (Florida), 31(Tennessee), 49(Kentucky), 62(South Carolina), 90(Vanderbilt)
2003: 4(Georgia), 17(Tennessee), 19(Florida), 47(South Carolina), 80(Kentucky), 103(Vanderbilt)
2004: 10(Georgia), 18(Tennessee), 29(Florida), 53(South Carolina), 110(Vanderbilt), 125(Kentucky)
2005: 10(Georgia), 13(Florida), 37(South Carolina), 43(Tennessee), 64(Vanderbilt), 95(Kentucky)
2006: 1(Florida), 15(Tennessee), 17(Georgia), 21(South Carolina), 25(Kentucky), 57(Vanderbilt)
2007: 6(Georgia), 10(Florida), 14(Tennessee), 23(Kentucky), 30(South Carolina), 52(Vanderbilt)
quote:
2013: 5,4,24
2014 14,9
2013: 3(Missouri), 10(South Carolina), 25 (Georgia), 30(Vanderbilt), 49(Tennessee), 63(Florida), 111(Kentucky)
2014: 6(Georgia), 12(Missouri), 26(Florida), 28(Tennessee), 32(South Carolina), 57(Kentucky), 97(Vanderbilt)
Posted on 2/11/15 at 10:38 am to Arksulli
In 13 going into Atl, the East and West were dead even, we may be down but the East still took care of you just fine last year.
**swipe**
here's your participation brownie point.
Posted on 2/11/15 at 10:39 am to Arksulli
quote:
I know everyone is watching Basketball
Yo, have you seen our record in BB?
Posted on 2/11/15 at 10:47 am to Wtodd
quote:
here's your participation brownie point.
Bless you JT. You are always the grumpiest and most sullen Tiger on here. I find that admirable.
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