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re: Check in if you have the best basketball coach in the SEC
Posted on 3/21/22 at 2:22 pm to TiderinVa
Posted on 3/21/22 at 2:22 pm to TiderinVa
quote:
Yep logic escapes these people george. Imagine bragging about sweet 16s and elite 8s and in same breath saying championships dont matter. Guess they think u get trophies for sweet 16 and elite 8 appearances
ask tennessee and Auburn fans if this year was a success.
basketball is and always about making and succeeding in the tourney
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Posted on 3/21/22 at 2:23 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Bama isnt a blueblood ... Never will be , but people shouldnt act as if we have no basketball tradition. We re a program thats always been on the verge of taking that next step. Finally have an AD and enough influential people invested in the program.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 2:30 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
I think this is my breakdown as well
Final Four > anything conference
Elite Eight > anything conference
Sweet 16 = Conference title
Conference title > 1st/2nd round
That's fair, but I'd still take a Sweet 16 over a conference title, because conference titles are pretty meaningless in this sport. It's an interesting topic for the SEC, because it's so competitive and conference titles are so valued. But outside of the SEC, no one gives a shite. In fact, try asking anyone from outside the SEC who won the conference any of the last 3 years and they'll likely guess Kentucky.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 2:31 pm to redeye
quote:
That's fair, but I'd still take a Sweet 16 over a conference title, because conference titles are pretty meaningless in this sport. It's an interesting topic for the SEC, because it's so competitive and conference titles are so valued. But outside of the SEC, no one gives a shite. In fact, try asking anyone from outside the SEC who won the conference any of the last 3 years and they'll likely guess Kentucky.
I mean I couldn't tell you who won the Pac 12 football title 3 years ago but I'm guessing whoever did cares about it. Not everything is about how things look nationally. But, again, that comes from the perspective of programs that don't really have much of a "national" history.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 2:34 pm to admiralduckwad
quote:
ask tennessee and Auburn fans if this year was a success.
Uh, yes, winning the SEC during the current era, for Auburn, is absolutely a success. Perhaps in another few years winning the conference will start to seem hollow if we've piled up 3 or 4 of those trophies and haven't gotten deep in the tourney again, but you won't find an Auburn fan who doesn't value the SEC title. And any reasonable Arkansas fan would agree, I think.
I value the Elite 8 more than the SEC title, but Auburn wasn't winning a championship this year (neither is Arkansas in all likelihood). But I think it's a fair question as to whether an E8 (for example) is as valuable if you know that you're probably not a serious title threat and had to grind against some overachieving teams to get there. For us it matters because we don't have a lot of tourney success, so even if we beat Miami and ISU before playing clearly superior teams, it would have a lot of value even if we got smoked by Kansas. Not sure about ya'll. TBH If I was Arky I'd probably take an SEC title over that.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 2:36 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
Uh, yes, winning the SEC during the current era, for Auburn, is absolutely a success. Perhaps in another few years winning the conference will start to seem hollow if we've piled up 3 or 4 of those trophies and haven't gotten deep in the tourney again, but you won't find an Auburn fan who doesn't value the SEC title. And any reasonable Arkansas fan would agree, I think.
I value the Elite 8 more than the SEC title, but Auburn wasn't winning a championship this year (neither is Arkansas in all likelihood). But I think it's a fair question as to whether an E8 (for example) is as valuable if you know that you're probably not a serious title threat and had to grind against some overachieving teams to get there.
Yep - agree
Posted on 3/21/22 at 2:38 pm to Pettifogger
I’ll take a sweet 16 over winning anything in the regular season.
College basketball is all about March Madness.
College basketball is all about March Madness.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 2:40 pm to redeye
quote:
That's fair, but I'd still take a Sweet 16 over a conference title, because conference titles are pretty meaningless in this sport.
this.
having 5 tourney wins in 2 years when the next best in the conference has 2 in that timeframe is a better marker for success. In addition, going deeper in the tourney than anyone else in your conference for both of those years is also a better indicator of success.
You think Baylor fans are high fiving their regular season Big 12 championship this year after only beating Norfolk st in the tourney?
Posted on 3/21/22 at 2:42 pm to admiralduckwad
quote:
You think Baylor fans are high fiving their regular season Big 12 championship this year after only beating Norfolk st in the tourney?
I think that if they would have been in 2010.
I think, once again, that it comes down to expectations and your program's history.
This post was edited on 3/21/22 at 2:44 pm
Posted on 3/21/22 at 2:42 pm to Golfer1
quote:
I’ll take a sweet 16 over winning anything in the regular season.
In all honesty, that's a take I'd expect from a program that hasn't done it in a couple of decades.
Auburn (if anyone) should value S16s more than titles because we have so few good tourney runs. But even with that I think I'd put a conference title slightly above the S16. Merely decent teams make the S16 all the time. I agree it's fun, but you're not winning the modern SEC without a slog and some pretty stellar play (and likely some major wins along the way).
Posted on 3/21/22 at 2:44 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
Uh, yes, winning the SEC during the current era, for Auburn, is absolutely a success
sure. but i would 100% take an Elite 8 and Sweet 16 in the last two years over a regular season championship and 1 NCAA tourney win in that tiemframe. is a regular season championship some degree of success? sure. would i trade our 2 seasons for your 2 seasons? absolutely not
Posted on 3/21/22 at 2:45 pm to Pettifogger
As I said earlier, just like in football there are expectation levels that are based on (a) recent history, (b) overall history and (c) team expectations.
Do you think Ohio State would have been ecstatic winning the Outback Bowl last year? Well, no.
Do you think Vanderbilt would have been ecstatic winning the Outback Bowl last year? Well, yea.
So apply that same sense to basketball and you see why there are different levels of what feels like a "good season". If teams keep getting to a certain level (NCAA Tournament appearances, as an example) and don't get any better, then fans will get frustrated. See Alabama by 2006 with Mark Gottfried.
Do you think Ohio State would have been ecstatic winning the Outback Bowl last year? Well, no.
Do you think Vanderbilt would have been ecstatic winning the Outback Bowl last year? Well, yea.
So apply that same sense to basketball and you see why there are different levels of what feels like a "good season". If teams keep getting to a certain level (NCAA Tournament appearances, as an example) and don't get any better, then fans will get frustrated. See Alabama by 2006 with Mark Gottfried.
This post was edited on 3/21/22 at 2:49 pm
Posted on 3/21/22 at 2:51 pm to admiralduckwad
quote:
sure. but i would 100% take an Elite 8 and Sweet 16 in the last two years over a regular season championship and 1 NCAA tourney win in that tiemframe. is a regular season championship some degree of success? sure. would i trade our 2 seasons for your 2 seasons? absolutely not
Well we self imposed/collapsed last year, so there is that too, so it's not quite apples to apples
But I think this is all pretty situational. In a bubble I value an E8 more, a S16 slightly less. Now next year would I prefer a S16 over an SEC title? Harder call, because the farther away from 18 we get the more we'll want a decent tourney showing for the program/Pearl's resume.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 2:52 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Yeah agree.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 2:53 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
Auburn (if anyone) should value S16s more than titles
indeed. it has happened only once since 2003. Granted you went to the Final Four in 2019, but you finished 4th in the SEC that year, so no trophy. hmmm..
Posted on 3/21/22 at 2:54 pm to admiralduckwad
quote:
but you finished 4th in the SEC that year, so no trophy. hmmm..
I don't think anybody would argue that a Final Four/Elite 8 trumps anything in the regular season.
The discussion becomes when you are talking about S16/R32.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 2:56 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
I don't think anybody would argue that a Final Four/Elite 8 trumps anything in the regular season.
The discussion becomes when you are talking about S16/R32.
i get that. i think it breaks down though if you win your conference and then get bounced opening weekend. that doesnt seem like success to me. seems like underperformance
Posted on 3/21/22 at 2:58 pm to admiralduckwad
quote:
i get that. i think it breaks down though if you win your conference and then get bounced opening weekend. that doesnt seem like success to me. seems like underperformance
If you win your conference and lose in the first weekend I'd guess it is a conflict of emotions, like Petti has been saying.
I remember in 2002 (granted I was much more kid back then) I was through the moon when we won the title and depressed as hell when we lost to Kent State. But now we look back on that season pretty fondly. However, if we'd gone to 2 Elite 8s and won 3 more conference titles I doubt we'd think a whole lot about it.
Our team last year is probably a good example of the minimum NCAA Tournament run that makes you not feel like it the regular season didn't matter. It sucked to lose, but the Sweet 16 is a solid run even if you feel like you could have done a bit more.
This post was edited on 3/21/22 at 2:59 pm
Posted on 3/21/22 at 2:59 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
I think, once again, that it comes down to expectations and your program's history.
I agree. Though we aren’t an elite program we’ve had past experiences that have made us fall in love with the big dance. Anything short of a trip there is a bad season.
It’s also great for recruiting because these kids value going to that tourney.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 3:00 pm to admiralduckwad
quote:
Tennessee 1
With all the talent we have had this just makes me want to throw up. I can't even defend it anymore. Thought this year was going to be different because we were peaking at the right time
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