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Vandy alums, need advice
Posted on 6/21/19 at 10:00 pm
Posted on 6/21/19 at 10:00 pm
So we’re doing the college visit thing with my oldest daughter who is a rising high school senior. She just got back from a PreVU Vandy day in Nashville and VU is in her top 3. She’s got the grades and test scores to have a decent chance of getting in. She wants to go to med school. Here’s my problem. The admissions counselor told the audience pretty much flat out that if you don’t do Early Decision 1 or 2, chances are slim and none of getting in Regular Decision. Early Decision is binding to both school and student; if you get in, you have to go, regardless of your financial aid award that you find out about after you’re committed.
I can’t gamble on her getting in but not getting enough financial aid to cover $70,000 a year cost of attendance. I’d love to send her to Vandy if we could get in regular Decision and see if we can afford it or not but as I said, they say that is the same as pulling the winning lottery ticket.
What can you tell me? Is that true about ED 1and 2?
I can’t gamble on her getting in but not getting enough financial aid to cover $70,000 a year cost of attendance. I’d love to send her to Vandy if we could get in regular Decision and see if we can afford it or not but as I said, they say that is the same as pulling the winning lottery ticket.
What can you tell me? Is that true about ED 1and 2?
This post was edited on 6/21/19 at 11:15 pm
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Posted on 6/21/19 at 10:39 pm to phil4bama
If you're paying, you direct.
Posted on 6/21/19 at 11:18 pm to cubsfan5150
She’s got a full tuition ride to UF and Bama sewed up. I’m trying to give her options if she wants. If Vandy could even make tuition reasonable, we would consider all offers before deciding but I don’t like their “pig-in-a-poke” approach.
Posted on 6/22/19 at 6:04 am to phil4bama
quote:
She wants to go to med school.
Best to apply in spring of Junior year
Best approach is to put her on their radar
Instead of the standard school visit go the extra mile
Meet with Dean
Meet with professors
Sit in on actual classes
Has she met with the VU rep in her home state? Not that this is a sure way in it is good to get good feedback on if Vanderbilt is the right school. Don't think there were any repercussions for not going to Vandy.
As for early decision, not sure what to tell you but a friends kid got a full ride but then got a full ride to Georgetown (they wanted law) and went there instead.
Seems to me with any top school, the goal is to get in then worry about the money after. If she is going to be a doctor, 280K is about half a years salary once in her profession. If she is a doctor it will be like winning the lottery as you age! Built in pipeline to better health care.
Posted on 6/22/19 at 8:58 am to phil4bama
Not an alum but some familiarity with this area.
She is very unlikely to get substantial financial aid based on merit alone. Particularly if she is borderline on being admitted. There are thousands of kids with as good or better resumes lined up to pay $250-300k for a Vandy degree so they don’t have to give merit scholarships to most. And don’t. Her chances increase if she is a minority, stellar athlete, or has a truly incredible life story/experience (though less helpful towards aid than the first two). If she qualifies for need based aid (depends largely on your income and savings), it may be a different story but I don’t recall what Vandy does here to be honest.
I would recommend early decision if both of these are true: (1) your daughter is certain that Vandy is where she wants to go and that nothing that occurs between submitting that app and May 1, 2020 will change her mind, and (2) you can commit to paying the freight at Vandy or borrowing the money to make that happen. Based on your post, neither seems to be the case at this time.
You’ve still got a couple of months. I’d look at some other schools, discuss the financial aspect or her decision, and let this one lie for a bit. I’d also consider that a ton of kids want to go pre-med and end up in something less lucrative.
Good luck to you and your daughter. Stressful time but don’t lose sight of the fact that she had set herself up very well through hard work, intelligence and your support. She’s given herself a lot of good options and that makes for a tough decision.
She is very unlikely to get substantial financial aid based on merit alone. Particularly if she is borderline on being admitted. There are thousands of kids with as good or better resumes lined up to pay $250-300k for a Vandy degree so they don’t have to give merit scholarships to most. And don’t. Her chances increase if she is a minority, stellar athlete, or has a truly incredible life story/experience (though less helpful towards aid than the first two). If she qualifies for need based aid (depends largely on your income and savings), it may be a different story but I don’t recall what Vandy does here to be honest.
I would recommend early decision if both of these are true: (1) your daughter is certain that Vandy is where she wants to go and that nothing that occurs between submitting that app and May 1, 2020 will change her mind, and (2) you can commit to paying the freight at Vandy or borrowing the money to make that happen. Based on your post, neither seems to be the case at this time.
You’ve still got a couple of months. I’d look at some other schools, discuss the financial aspect or her decision, and let this one lie for a bit. I’d also consider that a ton of kids want to go pre-med and end up in something less lucrative.
Good luck to you and your daughter. Stressful time but don’t lose sight of the fact that she had set herself up very well through hard work, intelligence and your support. She’s given herself a lot of good options and that makes for a tough decision.
Posted on 6/22/19 at 10:04 am to dirtsandwich
quote:
if you get in, you have to go, regardless of your financial aid award that you find out about after you’re committed.
Something to really think about. Your daughter appears to be an outstanding student and I am surprised at the Vandy position on attending.
There are some excellent doctors who received undergrad degrees from Alabama (my family doc and my cardiologist) and Florida.
Posted on 6/22/19 at 10:22 am to phil4bama
I am almost certain that the “binding early decision” is unenforceable. It’s too vague since you won’t know how much you’ll be paying. Schools will not go after you for tuition if you back out, but they may contact another school if, for example, you applied to two different early decision programs, which could lead to losing both acceptances.
Just to add, I applied to my law school with early decision, and even after I was accepted, there would have been no way to keep me from going somewhere else.
To add again, I’m not giving you legal advice
Just to add, I applied to my law school with early decision, and even after I was accepted, there would have been no way to keep me from going somewhere else.
To add again, I’m not giving you legal advice
This post was edited on 6/22/19 at 10:25 am
Posted on 6/22/19 at 1:38 pm to OlGrandad
If she whants to be a doc, seems UAB is where she needs to apply, not UAT
Posted on 6/22/19 at 3:23 pm to Cheese Grits
You gotta do pre-med first and UA honors program in Tuscaloosa is iMHO a better option than UAB. Besides that, she wants the real college experience and I don’t blame her. That’s not to say anything negative about UAB, I think it’s a good school and the med school is top notch but the campus is not a very aesthetically pleasing one in downtown B’ham.
And I know a lot of kids want to say they want to be a doctor before they start the journey. I’ve told her many times she may change her mind and that’s ok. But she’s been saying med school since at least 9th grade and has never wavered. I will support her and encourage her and allow her to continue down that path as long as she so chooses.
And I know a lot of kids want to say they want to be a doctor before they start the journey. I’ve told her many times she may change her mind and that’s ok. But she’s been saying med school since at least 9th grade and has never wavered. I will support her and encourage her and allow her to continue down that path as long as she so chooses.
Posted on 6/22/19 at 4:05 pm to dirtsandwich
To dirt sandwich, I agree, I doubt she would get a lot of merit aid to Vandy. She would be just another applicant there. But I’ve had others tell me if Vandy wants her, they will find money for her. So that makes it a little harder. We’re not done, we’re still looking.
We also know that Vandy fills their med school class with a lot of Vandy undergrads as they should so that would be a nice edge there.
I didn’t have these problems and they are good ones to have but at the same time, it’s a tough decision. She didn’t make perfect on her ACT/SAT but she’s in the top 2 percent for ACT including a perfect 36 English score and top 3 percent in SAT. She has a 4.0 unweighted, 4.57 weighted GPA, is involved in a ton of extracurriculars, and swims competitively. She has quite a few offers to swim for D3 schools (D3, no money) and a few D2 schools. But she herself has decided academics come first and she doesn’t want to restrict her choice to where she can swim. Unfortunately she can’t swim quite as well as she can learn so she doesn’t want to settle for a lesser school just to swim. There’s still a couple out there that might satisfy both criteria but they are not the favorites at this point. She’s talked about club swimming at Alabama and they do have a club team.
I’m very proud of her accomplishments and I’m trying to help her find the best fit for her college education. She knows Alabama, been to quite a few ball games and 2 natties with me, and she loves Alabama. It’s like a comfortable pair of your favorite jeans. But there’s a part of her that would like to reach higher, and she can.
She’s good enough to have a good shot at admission almost anywhere but not good enough to get much merit at the elite schools. That makes it hard when it’s the financial part that starts restricting your choices. But the reality is, if med school is the real destination, I’ve had several doctor friends tell me that med school is expensive enough and will put you in debt by itself. Don’t go looking for more debt than you have to with undergrad studies.
Florida is one of the top public universities in the country and she could always go there. With Florida Bright Futures, with her resume, tuition is covered. But Florida has pissed her off a little. She’s gotten mail and email from practically every elite school in the country, most more than one. All the Ivies, Stanford, Chicago, MIT, etc. She’s gotten more stuff from any of them than she has Florida. She feels ignored. We get that Florida has a capacity problem and doesn’t need applicants but you would think they would at least pursue the better qualified ones in their own state. She’s a humble, down to earth kid, but she does want to feel wanted. UF would be a tough sell right now for purely personal reasons.
So we have checked out Miami, Tulane, Alabama, BSC, Sewanee, and Vandy. We’ll still do a few others this summer and narrow it down to a few and apply this fall. Right now Bama, Vandy and Miami are the leaders. She liked BSC, hated Sewanee (it is REMOTE if you’ve never been there) and Tulane blew it with the tour. They sounded like the New Orleans Tourism Board. They sold the town more than the school so she came away underwhelmed.
Keep the thoughts coming, I appreciate the input and the discussion.
We also know that Vandy fills their med school class with a lot of Vandy undergrads as they should so that would be a nice edge there.
I didn’t have these problems and they are good ones to have but at the same time, it’s a tough decision. She didn’t make perfect on her ACT/SAT but she’s in the top 2 percent for ACT including a perfect 36 English score and top 3 percent in SAT. She has a 4.0 unweighted, 4.57 weighted GPA, is involved in a ton of extracurriculars, and swims competitively. She has quite a few offers to swim for D3 schools (D3, no money) and a few D2 schools. But she herself has decided academics come first and she doesn’t want to restrict her choice to where she can swim. Unfortunately she can’t swim quite as well as she can learn so she doesn’t want to settle for a lesser school just to swim. There’s still a couple out there that might satisfy both criteria but they are not the favorites at this point. She’s talked about club swimming at Alabama and they do have a club team.
I’m very proud of her accomplishments and I’m trying to help her find the best fit for her college education. She knows Alabama, been to quite a few ball games and 2 natties with me, and she loves Alabama. It’s like a comfortable pair of your favorite jeans. But there’s a part of her that would like to reach higher, and she can.
She’s good enough to have a good shot at admission almost anywhere but not good enough to get much merit at the elite schools. That makes it hard when it’s the financial part that starts restricting your choices. But the reality is, if med school is the real destination, I’ve had several doctor friends tell me that med school is expensive enough and will put you in debt by itself. Don’t go looking for more debt than you have to with undergrad studies.
Florida is one of the top public universities in the country and she could always go there. With Florida Bright Futures, with her resume, tuition is covered. But Florida has pissed her off a little. She’s gotten mail and email from practically every elite school in the country, most more than one. All the Ivies, Stanford, Chicago, MIT, etc. She’s gotten more stuff from any of them than she has Florida. She feels ignored. We get that Florida has a capacity problem and doesn’t need applicants but you would think they would at least pursue the better qualified ones in their own state. She’s a humble, down to earth kid, but she does want to feel wanted. UF would be a tough sell right now for purely personal reasons.
So we have checked out Miami, Tulane, Alabama, BSC, Sewanee, and Vandy. We’ll still do a few others this summer and narrow it down to a few and apply this fall. Right now Bama, Vandy and Miami are the leaders. She liked BSC, hated Sewanee (it is REMOTE if you’ve never been there) and Tulane blew it with the tour. They sounded like the New Orleans Tourism Board. They sold the town more than the school so she came away underwhelmed.
Keep the thoughts coming, I appreciate the input and the discussion.
Posted on 6/22/19 at 4:52 pm to phil4bama
If she wants to go to med school you also need to factor in the cost of medical school attendance. If she has to take out loans for Vandy, not only will she also have to pay for med school but she will have no hope of beginning to pay off her student loans for at least another 8 years or so while they continue to accrue interest. It is not uncommon for some of my colleagues to finish residency $500K in debt. And while there are a few docs who can pay that off in several years if they really manage their money, there are some specialties (Peds, IM, Fam practice) where it would literally take 20 years to pay that off given the significant decreases in reimbursement in medicine. Also, going to Vandy will give her a slight leg up on getting into med school but not as big as you think.
TL; DR
Take the free ride
TL; DR
Take the free ride
Posted on 6/22/19 at 6:22 pm to phil4bama
quote:
swims competitively. She has quite a few offers to swim for D3 schools
Vanderbilt has swimming scholarships
If she is a good bowler they have bowling scholarships as well
Back to point,
Did she meet with the dean or professors?
Did she sit in on any actual classes?
Posted on 6/22/19 at 6:32 pm to phil4bama
quote:
The admissions counselor told the audience pretty much flat out that if you don’t do Early Decision 1 or 2, chances are slim and none of getting in Regular Decision.
I had a 34 ACT, National Merit Scholarship, 4.0 GPA, lots of extracurriculars, and got waitlisted applying to Vanderbilt regular decision.
That doesn’t prove that regular decision is impossible or even that ED makes it’s easier, but I’d say RD is pretty darn hard.
I was also from Tennessee though, and Vanderbilt is rumored to favor out of state students. I have no idea if that’s true or not but figured I’d throw it out there.
Posted on 6/22/19 at 6:39 pm to phil4bama
quote:
All the Ivies, Stanford, Chicago, MIT, etc. She’s gotten more stuff from any of them than she has Florida. She feels ignored. We get that Florida has a capacity problem and doesn’t need applicants but you would think they would at least pursue the better qualified ones in their own state. She’s a humble, down to earth kid, but she does want to feel wanted.
I understand this feeling, but it’s important to remember that the Ivies, Stanford, etc. want people to apply who they have no intention of letting in. Those schools pride themselves on low admissions rates, and they need lots of people to apply to keep those percentages low. Public schools don’t really care about that stat.
To be clear, I’m by no means saying your daughter has no chance of getting into those schools. She sounds like a great student and person. I’m just saying there’s a reason certain types of schools send you more stuff.
Posted on 6/22/19 at 6:48 pm to phil4bama
If she has full ride to Florida, go there undergrad and then keep Vandy as goal for Med school. Given what she wants to do and Florida’s own med program she won’t miss much as academics go
Posted on 6/22/19 at 6:57 pm to phil4bama
BSC = Birmingham Southern?
Good if she wants to practice in FL but why not take the free ride to Gainesville instead?
Is she a resident of Alabama?
Good school and NOLA is a bonus
Are the good for pre med? I think of them as English and more liberal arts
quote:
Miami
Good if she wants to practice in FL but why not take the free ride to Gainesville instead?
quote:
Alabama
Is she a resident of Alabama?
quote:
Tulane
Good school and NOLA is a bonus
quote:
Sewanee
Are the good for pre med? I think of them as English and more liberal arts
Posted on 6/22/19 at 7:39 pm to Cheese Grits
Yes, BSC is Birmingham-Southern. She’s a FL resident. Florida is there if we need to go that route. Alabama’s offer is the equal of Florida’s as net price goes. Sewanee is indeed more of an English or language arts school. Why Miami? Because they too have a medical school and it’s a pretty good one. Especially well thought of for ophthalmology which is an area that interests her right now.
Posted on 6/22/19 at 7:49 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
Vanderbilt has swimming scholarships
This... I know we've talked swimming before. Vanderbilt is just awful, especially by sec standards. They didn't even have a women's team when I was swimming lol. Not sure what your daughter's specialty is or how good she is, but I looked up Vanderbilt's 400 free relay. With the relay start we are talking 3 girls struggling to get jr national qualifying times. Averaging a tad over 51 seconds for reference. Even if your daughter isn't quite good enough to get an athletic scholarship at vandy, it definitely could help her with a preferred walk-on status. As in how the celebs got busted paying for their kids to sneak into college, but this would be the legitimate use of that provision. I'd definitely click this LINK and have her fill out the questionnaire for interest in vandy, on the off chance y'all haven't already. I pulled it from here in case you prefer to directly go to the questionnaire from vandy's official page.
Posted on 6/22/19 at 7:52 pm to phil4bama
Cheese grits: no she hasn’t met any of those people at Vandy. She received an invite to PreVU Vanderbilt days which is several dates where they herd a large group of prospects through a tour and info session of Vandy. It’s not a 1 on 1 opportunity. She’s not a D1 swimmer, certainly not SEC caliber. If she stays interested in Vandy we will try to meet with those people you mentioned.
Posted on 6/22/19 at 11:35 pm to phil4bama
I may be able to give a little bit of perspective as I graduated from Vandy School of Engineering in 1988, and School of Medicine in 1992 and completed my residency in Internal Medicine at Vandy in 1995. I also have two kids who just went through this mess - one who will be a junior at Wake Forest, one who is just just starting at Wash U. That being said, the admissions process is a lot more competitive now then it was pre cellphone.
I believe the admissions officer who stated that your daughters best chance of acceptance was by applying ED1 is entirely correct. They are flooded with applicants who haven taken every AP course known to man, have perfect GPA's and perfect scores. As far as Vandy pitching in any cash - I think that is very unlikely. Females now outnumber male applicants and unless she can claim a minority status (not trying to stir a pot), refugee status, or a politicians kid - you are probably looking at a full 70 K a year. That number will likely increase every year as well. It went up a thousand a year when I was there.
Another thing to take into account is that only covers the undergrad - med school is 4 years and private med schools (except NYU) are typically 50 - 70 K a year. Public institutions I believe are 20 - 30K a year .Residencies are typically 3 - 4 years during which you are paid 25 - 30 K a year, and if your daughter is planning on specializing it is another 3 - 5 years depending on the specialty (30 K a year). I am a cardiologist and finally starting my practice 6 years after graduating from med school. I see residents all the time who are 200 - 300 K in debt and are interested in Med - Peds.,I honestly don't see how they are ever going to get out of debt.
My med school class had 95 students, three of us were from Vandy. At that time, the med school prided itself on drawing students from across the country and honestly gave no preference to Vandy grads. That may have changed, I am too out of the loop now to know if their admission profile has changed
She is obviously driven and will excel wherever she matriculates. Florida is an excellent University and in the end you can't beat being paid to be educated. I agree with your doctor friends whole heartedly.
Hope that helps
I believe the admissions officer who stated that your daughters best chance of acceptance was by applying ED1 is entirely correct. They are flooded with applicants who haven taken every AP course known to man, have perfect GPA's and perfect scores. As far as Vandy pitching in any cash - I think that is very unlikely. Females now outnumber male applicants and unless she can claim a minority status (not trying to stir a pot), refugee status, or a politicians kid - you are probably looking at a full 70 K a year. That number will likely increase every year as well. It went up a thousand a year when I was there.
Another thing to take into account is that only covers the undergrad - med school is 4 years and private med schools (except NYU) are typically 50 - 70 K a year. Public institutions I believe are 20 - 30K a year .Residencies are typically 3 - 4 years during which you are paid 25 - 30 K a year, and if your daughter is planning on specializing it is another 3 - 5 years depending on the specialty (30 K a year). I am a cardiologist and finally starting my practice 6 years after graduating from med school. I see residents all the time who are 200 - 300 K in debt and are interested in Med - Peds.,I honestly don't see how they are ever going to get out of debt.
My med school class had 95 students, three of us were from Vandy. At that time, the med school prided itself on drawing students from across the country and honestly gave no preference to Vandy grads. That may have changed, I am too out of the loop now to know if their admission profile has changed
She is obviously driven and will excel wherever she matriculates. Florida is an excellent University and in the end you can't beat being paid to be educated. I agree with your doctor friends whole heartedly.
Hope that helps
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