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re: Is Athens really that liberal?
Posted on 2/16/15 at 1:31 pm to aggressor
Posted on 2/16/15 at 1:31 pm to aggressor
quote:
She is a social contract liberal, meaning that she feels that it is an obligation of those who are successful to pay taxes to help out those who are not successful, essentially wealth redistribution.
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It's basic capitalism and something a person like Warren can't grasp
I never cease to be amazed at the number of people who think that those who disagree with them must be less capable. Elizabeth Warren understands your simplification of economics just as I do. The problem is that you are already emotionally invested in a system that is inherently slanted toward protecting the amassed wealth of the 1%. It is hilarious to me that there is a group of people who believe white knighting for corporate interests equals "democracy", while those trying to ensure that the voice of the people is heard and not drowned out by corporate interests are all "communists".
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Posted on 2/16/15 at 1:32 pm to Crimson Legend
quote:
We ALL have a tax "burden". This is one issue that I would always agree with republicans/libertarians - we should ALL pay a share of the taxes. Whether it's a flat rate, or a use tax, or whatever makes the most sense, we can't continue to sustain a government where the poorest and the richest pay next to nothing.
Agreed, but it's a pipe dream to have it be fair for everyone.
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If a company can save money by shipping jobs overseas and manipulating the tax code, they are going to do it REGARDLESS of their tax "burden".
Of course, as they should. They have shareholders and people invested in profits. They are going to do whatever it takes to make a profit. They don't owe America or anyone anything. The purpose of any business is to make a profit.
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I would be completely in favor of a flat tax rate shouldered by everyone, including the poor, if it did not give advantages to those who make money from their money rather than their labor. In other words, capital gains are not different from wages when it comes to taxes...it's all income.
The consumption tax with the increased luxury's purchased by the rich would still be a heavy load shouldered by the rich and upper middle class but obviously if you spend more you pay more so I would be for it but I realize it's a pipe dream.
Posted on 2/16/15 at 1:37 pm to Prettyboy Floyd
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Of course, as they should. They have shareholders and people invested in profits. They are going to do whatever it takes to make a profit. They don't owe America or anyone anything. The purpose of any business is to make a profit.
EXACTLY. They do not owe America anything, and America does not owe them anything. There is nothing evil about making profit, but there is nothing good about it either, except to the benefit of those making it. So rather than constantly manipulating the system to the advantage of corporate interests, the government should create an atmosphere that allows commerce to be made but actually REPRESENTS the people's interests.
Otherwise, we should be honest and stop calling this a democracy. Democracy does not mean "representation in proportion to your wealth". It means a government ruled by the people.
Posted on 2/16/15 at 1:39 pm to Prettyboy Floyd
You assholes can take this shite to the poli board.
Seriously, I bet less than 5% of people on this board even know who Warren is. And the people who give a shite who she is can be narrowed down to the couple of dumbfricks going back and forth.
TLDR Nobody give a frick about Liz Warren. Perfectly good topic gonna get whacked/anchored cuz three dumbfricks.
Seriously, I bet less than 5% of people on this board even know who Warren is. And the people who give a shite who she is can be narrowed down to the couple of dumbfricks going back and forth.
TLDR Nobody give a frick about Liz Warren. Perfectly good topic gonna get whacked/anchored cuz three dumbfricks.
Posted on 2/16/15 at 1:40 pm to aggressor
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As it is now the Constitution is really more of a symbolic document than the highest law of the land because legislators and judges ignore provisions of it because they feel it is "the right thing" so often.
Here we go with "activist judges".
Buried in the Constitution there is this thing called the 14th Amendment that contains what is generally referred to as the "Equal Protection Clause". It reads, in part:
"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
I would suggest that when judges move to extend rights to certain citizens (probably citizens that you don't like) they are rigidly upholding the 14th Amendment. We are about to see this play out with Marriage Equality.
Posted on 2/16/15 at 1:43 pm to deeprig9
This is not a political thread?
I hate political threads on this board, but the first several pages were shitheads bashing one side and it gets old. I am happy to let it drop here. It was nice to have a conversation with conservatives who can defend their position, but I do understand how that could make someone like you feel somewhat out of place.
quote:
Is Athens really that liberal?
I hate political threads on this board, but the first several pages were shitheads bashing one side and it gets old. I am happy to let it drop here. It was nice to have a conversation with conservatives who can defend their position, but I do understand how that could make someone like you feel somewhat out of place.
Posted on 2/16/15 at 1:45 pm to Crimson Legend
quote:
EXACTLY. They do not owe America anything, and America does not owe them anything. There is nothing evil about making profit, but there is nothing good about it either, except to the benefit of those making it. So rather than constantly manipulating the system to the advantage of corporate interests, the government should create an atmosphere that allows commerce to be made but actually REPRESENTS the people's interests.
There is good that comes from a profit. If a business can't pay it's shareholders and or turn a profit then it won't last. Why the hell would anyone go into business and think that it's not the number one goal to turn a profit? People invest in businesses to make money. America doesn't owe them anything but when you burden the businesses we see what we see time and time again. They pack their shite up and go overseas. We can't have it both ways. We can continue to attempt burdening companies with our demands and watch more and more overseas or we can find a solution that encourages businesses to stay here and contribute to our society. Attacking them and their profit margins is the wrong way to go about it.
Posted on 2/16/15 at 1:46 pm to deeprig9
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You assholes can take this shite to the poli board.
quote:
Is Athens really that liberal?
quote:
TLDR Nobody give a frick about Liz Warren. Perfectly good topic gonna get whacked/anchored cuz three dumbfricks.
Posted on 2/16/15 at 1:47 pm to Crimson Legend
quote:
This is not a political thread?
quote:
Is Athens really that liberal?
I hate political threads on this board, but the first several pages were shitheads bashing one side and it gets old. I am happy to let it drop here. It was nice to have a conversation with conservatives who can defend their position, but I do understand how that could make someone like you feel somewhat out of place.
Now you are just being obtuse.
Posted on 2/16/15 at 1:48 pm to Crimson Legend
quote:
but I do understand how that could make someone like you feel somewhat out of place.
Posted on 2/16/15 at 1:50 pm to Crimson Legend
If you label yourself as a republican/democrat/conservative/liberal, then you're already doing it wrong. I feel like once you label yourself, you've already half made up your mind who you're going to vote for without even knowing a damn thing about a candidate.
frickin' think for yourself and make a logical decision.
(FYI: not directed at whoever I replied to)
frickin' think for yourself and make a logical decision.
(FYI: not directed at whoever I replied to)
Posted on 2/16/15 at 2:01 pm to Crimson Legend
Crimson,
Who ever claimed that corporations or entrepreneurs were "white knights"? They just work in their self interests like all people and companies and governments do. The difference between us is you seem to think that the government will represent "the people" and work in their interests and that thus the government is the "white knight". At the same time you admit that the government is filled with dishonest people. Everyone works in their self interest, that's just the way the world works. The difference is a libertarian or conservative government understands that concept and thus keeps governmental responsibilities minimal.
I also don't know why you think we live in a Democracy, this is a Representative Republic. Democracies are ruled by the majority, Republics protect the rights of the minority.
Who ever claimed that corporations or entrepreneurs were "white knights"? They just work in their self interests like all people and companies and governments do. The difference between us is you seem to think that the government will represent "the people" and work in their interests and that thus the government is the "white knight". At the same time you admit that the government is filled with dishonest people. Everyone works in their self interest, that's just the way the world works. The difference is a libertarian or conservative government understands that concept and thus keeps governmental responsibilities minimal.
I also don't know why you think we live in a Democracy, this is a Representative Republic. Democracies are ruled by the majority, Republics protect the rights of the minority.
Posted on 2/16/15 at 2:47 pm to casublett1
quote:
Good lord, that's embarrassing. Hopefully Conservatives get the White House back in 2016. If not, I'm scared...
It makes no difference who get the presidency because every president since JFK has been a CIA stooge involved in top level drug smuggling, financial fraud, domestic spying and back-breaking wars. You lose regardless.
Posted on 2/16/15 at 8:15 pm to Whiznot
This thread was an amazing read
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