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re: Edward Snowden requests asylum from Russia. Have you changed your mind?
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:48 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:48 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
quote:
involved with technology become more of a gray area
There shouldn't be though. It's only gray, because some want to have more power to do things.
1
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:50 pm to Alahunter
Perhaps.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:53 pm to semotruman
quote:This sums up my opinion pretty well
Initially, I thought he was a conscientious whistle-blower. I also don't like the idea of the government spying on Americans, But by seeking refuge with our enemies instead of a neutral country like, say, Switzerland? I'm leaning to the traitor side now. He has a lot of valuable info, and he went to China and Russia with it. You know they're trying to get everything they possibly can from him. He could do a lot of damage.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 8:49 pm to semotruman
quote:
He "unveiled" that the government actively spies by monitoring peoples cell phone and internet activity. They use the info for all kinds of purposes. The NSA has claimed they've foiled numerous terrorist plots and stopped crimes based on the data they've collected. Snowden thought the public deserved to know that they were being spied on. His whistle blowing also included foreign surveillance tactics too - which has left a number of countries in a highly rustled state.
People have to be dumb if they didn't think that was going on since 9/11. I worked in Law Enforcement and knew that was going on. If you're going to certain sites the Govt will watch you, if you're at a library checking out books about bombs, Al Queda, explosives, mass shooters, 9/11 it'll throw up a red flag.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 8:58 pm to Robert Goulet
quote:
I will lean towards patriot.
Anybody who didn't see this coming when the Patriot Act was signed into legislation is blind. We've given up many of our American freedoms under the guise of being more secure.
I agree with everything except him being a patriot. The Patriot Act is the KEY to all of this. They can check your bank accts, credit cards, what library books you checked out, phone records, call logs, etc all because of that act. People need to read up on the patriot act. You'd be amazed at the things the govt can do.
But I promise you, they're not watching EVERYBODY like people think. Yes they are watching a certain religious groups, top drug dealers/drug lords, etc. Yes if you was on the internet talking about Secession, civil war after the election they are watching you. If you are posting youtube videos talkin about if the Govt try to take my gun, I'll fire the first shot in the war, they are watching you.
ETA: A muslim girl born in the U.S. was detained because she was checking out books from the library about 9/11, she was a college student. It was in the news, nobody was outraged over the govt spying on her.
This post was edited on 6/23/13 at 9:13 pm
Posted on 6/23/13 at 9:28 pm to bayou2003
My concern is less about his blowing the whistle on the government "spying" on American citizens. This was going on way before 9/11, and got worse after. To me, that's just common sense.
My concern, and the reason I think he's probably a traitor, is that he absconded from his job with lots of information on his computer and memory sticks. No one really knows the extent, yet, of what he took when he went and started talking to the media. And he took this info with him to China, and now presumably, Russia. And hopes to go to Ecuador - a close ally of Venezuela. I'd bet everyone of those countries already has, or will soon hae, copies of all the info he took with him. That goes way beyond whistle=blowing.
Maybe he doesn't have anything of interest to those countries, nothing beyond the domestic surveillance stuff. But he'd have been stupid to run without info that would give him leverage, and I don't think he's stupid.
My concern, and the reason I think he's probably a traitor, is that he absconded from his job with lots of information on his computer and memory sticks. No one really knows the extent, yet, of what he took when he went and started talking to the media. And he took this info with him to China, and now presumably, Russia. And hopes to go to Ecuador - a close ally of Venezuela. I'd bet everyone of those countries already has, or will soon hae, copies of all the info he took with him. That goes way beyond whistle=blowing.
Maybe he doesn't have anything of interest to those countries, nothing beyond the domestic surveillance stuff. But he'd have been stupid to run without info that would give him leverage, and I don't think he's stupid.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 9:32 pm to bayou2003
quote:
ETA: A muslim girl born in the U.S. was detained because she was checking out books from the library about 9/11, she was a college student. It was in the news, nobody was outraged over the govt spying on her.
Exactly. We're very selective in what we get outraged about. I read last week about the FBI using these domestic surveillance to stop a pedophile from raping a little girl in Kansas. Had nothing at all to do with terrorism, but regular old domestic crime. I'm glad they stopped it from happening, but the way they got the info makes me uncomfortable. Where is hte line?
Posted on 6/24/13 at 12:33 am to semotruman
I'm not going to read through all 8 pages of discussion, but I have viewed him as a traitor from day one. I already assumed our shite was monitored anyways, and to be honest I don't care. If the NSA claims it has foiled multiple terror plots through the use of this program, that's good enough for me. God, everytime some revelation like this hits the press people act like the sky is falling and like we're degenerating into a police state. Meanwhile their daily lives haven't been altered one bit. But let another 9/11-like attack or two hit and then see how they feel.
Posted on 6/24/13 at 7:10 am to Roger Klarvin
The government isn't going to do anything to me based on pillow talk and harsh language
That's a helluva lot of faith in bureaucrats.
That's a helluva lot of faith in bureaucrats.
Posted on 6/24/13 at 7:40 am to semotruman
quote:
My concern, and the reason I think he's probably a traitor, is that he absconded from his job with lots of information on his computer and memory sticks. No one really knows the extent, yet, of what he took when he went and started talking to the media. And he took this info with him to China, and now presumably, Russia. And hopes to go to Ecuador - a close ally of Venezuela. I'd bet everyone of those countries already has, or will soon hae, copies of all the info he took with him. That goes way beyond whistle=blowing.
It's not like he can go to Britain or France or Australia or something. They'd just send him back to us. Most countries have extradition treaties with the U.S. that they would honor for what he is being accused of. In order to NOT be sent back to the U.S. to receive a bullshite "trial" and spend the rest of his life in prison, he has to go to a country that isn't going to cooperate with our government under any circumstances.
Posted on 6/24/13 at 7:42 am to semotruman
I am as uncomfortable with private companies having the information as I am uncomfortable with the government getting it. That said, technology has made it easier for the government to get the information, but the government has had a history of invading privacy as technology allows. I don't think they are that different than they have always been. You can look at just about any period in history and people have complained about the same issues. People need to decide if it's more important to lose people in the name of privacy to terrorism or lose privacy in the name of safety. It's a tough call, and it sucks we can't seem to have both.
All of that said, it's utterly ridiculous that a guy who claims to be so bothered by a government's lack of transparency, privacy, and the right to free speech has chosen China, Russia, Cuba, and Ecuador as his safe zones. Not really congruent with his beliefs. I think he's a jackass.
All of that said, it's utterly ridiculous that a guy who claims to be so bothered by a government's lack of transparency, privacy, and the right to free speech has chosen China, Russia, Cuba, and Ecuador as his safe zones. Not really congruent with his beliefs. I think he's a jackass.
Posted on 6/24/13 at 7:50 am to Bellabama
At first, I'm all in behind this guy. It's not like I didn't think all of this domestic spying wasn't going on...but having some proof is an entirely different ballgame. He started a discussion again within the United States. For that, I'm thankful he did what he did.
He made an initial poor choice to run to Hong Kong. Xi Jinping has been open about talking about forging better relations with the United States, so he wasn't going to be allowed to stay there long. I mean, long enough for the Chinese to steal all of his data. Then, kick him out.
Should have ran to Iceland or decide to go be Swiss. Now however he has to run to openly hostile countries toward the US, and you can be sure there is a price to pay for his new safehouse. I sure don't feel any better that both the NSA and the Russians may have this info.
quote:
All of that said, it's utterly ridiculous that a guy who claims to be so bothered by a government's lack of transparency, privacy, and the right to free speech has chosen China, Russia, Cuba, and Ecuador as his safe zones. Not really congruent with his beliefs.
He made an initial poor choice to run to Hong Kong. Xi Jinping has been open about talking about forging better relations with the United States, so he wasn't going to be allowed to stay there long. I mean, long enough for the Chinese to steal all of his data. Then, kick him out.
Should have ran to Iceland or decide to go be Swiss. Now however he has to run to openly hostile countries toward the US, and you can be sure there is a price to pay for his new safehouse. I sure don't feel any better that both the NSA and the Russians may have this info.
Posted on 6/24/13 at 7:57 am to Duke
quote:
Should have ran to Iceland or decide to go be Swiss.
And it's really not even a sure bet that they would keep him for long. The Swiss are kind to white collar criminals facing long prison sentences, but considering only about half a dozen people have ever been charged under the Espionage Act, it's difficult to say how they would react to that. I think he ends up in Iceland though. They aren't going to risk flying him into Cuba and having the plane "accidentally" blow up 75 miles from Miami.
Posted on 6/24/13 at 7:59 am to Robot Santa
quote:
The Swiss are kind to white collar criminals facing long prison sentences, but considering only about half a dozen people have ever been charged under the Espionage Act, it's difficult to say how they would react to that
You have a point there.
quote:
I think he ends up in Iceland though
Me too.
Posted on 6/24/13 at 8:07 am to semotruman
Haven't read the thread, so this has probably been echoed many times over.
He's a patriot, IMO.
To me, a traitor is someone who turned his back on his country and put American lives (civilian or military) at risk.
A patriot is someone who does something to further and improve the lives the of the American people.
Remember, at one time the founders of our country were considered traitors.
History has a knack for redefining a person's actions based on the outcome (and vantage point of those affected) of those actions.
He's a patriot, IMO.
To me, a traitor is someone who turned his back on his country and put American lives (civilian or military) at risk.
A patriot is someone who does something to further and improve the lives the of the American people.
Remember, at one time the founders of our country were considered traitors.
History has a knack for redefining a person's actions based on the outcome (and vantage point of those affected) of those actions.
Posted on 6/24/13 at 8:27 am to Jerry the Sailor
I can't believe some of you think he's giving secrets away to the Chinese or Russians. He wants to come back to the US one day. He just needed to go to a place that wouldn't send him back because the US wants to charge him with something.
Posted on 6/24/13 at 8:30 am to semotruman
Patriot. He didn't really expose anything that was new though...people have been talking about this data collection stuff for 3 years. The media is just trumping it up into something bigger. Our national security will be fine
Posted on 6/24/13 at 8:34 am to semotruman
frick him!
Posted on 6/24/13 at 9:51 am to UMRealist
quote:
On the one hand I don't like the idea of the Gov't spying on american citizens.
If you're doing nothing wrong then you should be perfectly fine ...
Posted on 6/24/13 at 9:53 am to McRebel42
quote:
If you're doing nothing wrong then you should be perfectly fine ...
That's the worst rationalization ever.
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