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re: Edward Snowden requests asylum from Russia. Have you changed your mind?
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:12 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:12 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
Diversion/Smokescreen = Snowden
But if he is real = hero
But if he is real = hero
0
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:16 pm to mograyback
quote:
This is a tremendous misconception.
Really? Name a first-world country with less governmental control/corruption of the average citizen than America?
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:17 pm to Roger Klarvin
Government had more controls on it in the past. Over the past decade, citizens have given.. yes given.. the Gov't more control, by being afraid and electing people that passed laws to give them more control.
To say that there is nothing anyone can do, is a defeatist attitude and goes in line with your reasoning of let them do what they want, I'm not doing anything wrong. It's a herd mentality to think like that and it's what propagates abuses.
Suggesting a move to another country is grasping in an argument that is being lost. It'd be the equivalent if I had said, why don't you move to Russia, I hear they'll be happy to monitor your calls everyday and you won't have a thing to worry about, because you don't do anything wrong.
To say that there is nothing anyone can do, is a defeatist attitude and goes in line with your reasoning of let them do what they want, I'm not doing anything wrong. It's a herd mentality to think like that and it's what propagates abuses.
Suggesting a move to another country is grasping in an argument that is being lost. It'd be the equivalent if I had said, why don't you move to Russia, I hear they'll be happy to monitor your calls everyday and you won't have a thing to worry about, because you don't do anything wrong.
This post was edited on 6/23/13 at 6:19 pm
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:19 pm to mograyback
quote:
The opposite of a government stranglehold is not Somalia.
Hyperbole is just as unflattering as zero sum. We hardly reside within the confines of a stranglehold.
Granted, my statement was for the purposes of making a sarcastic point. That being said the only way to prevent government corruption IS to disallow all the power that it holds.
The fascinating thing to me is that people like you only have problems and no solutions. It's easy to bitch about our government but far more difficult to come up with solutions that don't involve anarchy.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:21 pm to Alahunter
I don't have a problem with it, but without these kinds of programs, there will be more attacks than we are used to. Which is a very small amount. I think this program probably has stopped some attacks in the planning stages and it definitely will stop some in the future.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:23 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
The fascinating thing to me is that people like you only have problems and no solutions. It's easy to bitch about our government but far more difficult to come up with solutions
Less Gov't IS the solution. The Gov't, with it's policies have created alot of the terrorists out there. Hell, the gun bans in the 90's CREATED the militias they demonized.
People once again being involved with their neighbors and neighborhoods is the answer. Less mindless entertainment, entitlements is the answer. But, that would require people doing something besides being mindnumbing zombies that automatically do as they're told.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:24 pm to Alahunter
quote:
Government had more controls on it in the past. Over the past decade, citizens have given.. yes given.. the Gov't more control, by being afraid and electing people that passed laws to give them more control.
The world is changing. In the past someone plotting to blow up a building or setting off a car bomb on American soil was seen as a notable outlier. Now it's merely the six o'clock news. This isn't condoning all government action but merely showing that your comparison is unfounded.
quote:
To say that there is nothing anyone can do, is a defeatist attitude and goes in line with your reasoning of let them do what they want, I'm not doing anything wrong. It's a herd mentality to think like that and it's what propagates abuses.
Ok then, give me a solution.
quote:
Suggesting a move to another country is grasping in an argument that is being lost. It'd be the equivalent if I had said, why don't you move to Russia, I hear they'll be happy to monitor your calls everyday and you won't have a thing to worry about, because you don't do anything wrong.
The problem with this is that in Russia they DO kick down your door and arrest you without cause.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:24 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
quote:
I think this program probably has stopped some attacks in the planning stages and it definitely will stop some in the future.
It's also likely to make some homegrown ones that feel their rights have been infringed upon. Freedom comes at a cost, and I'd rather not give them up, not even in the name of safety.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:26 pm to Alahunter
quote:
Less Gov't IS the solution. The Gov't, with it's policies have created alot of the terrorists out there. Hell, the gun bans in the 90's CREATED the militias they demonized.
This is what EVERYONE says. This isn't a solution, its an end. How do we reach that end? That is the question nobody ever answers.
"More personal involvement" and "voting power" are generic answers that dodge the true issue. How does one take a country of 350 million people and convince them all of a single, unified means of countering all forms of government corruption?
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:26 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
The problem with this is that in Russia they DO kick down your door and arrest you without cause
Yeah. That's NEVER happened in the U.S., has it?
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:27 pm to Alahunter
Less gov. is the answer. I am not sure this is the first program to cut and I don't really mind this program and what it does. I would not be upset if it went away, and I won't fight for it. But I do believe it will save some lives if it is in place.
It is up for the whole country to decide if that is worth it or not.
It is up for the whole country to decide if that is worth it or not.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:28 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
How do we reach that end? That is the question nobody ever answers.
You, as an individual, just start doing it. Waiting on everyone else to do it solves nothing. It begins with one person, just as anything does.
Nobody ever said it'd be easy.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:29 pm to Alahunter
quote:
Freedom comes at a cost, and I'd rather not give them up, not even in the name of safety.
Freedom from what? Having your phone calls heard by people who don't care?
How is your freedom to do ANYTHING effected? Moreover, is your freedom from others hearing private conversations worth your life? How about the lives of your wife, child or parents?
Its very easy to act angry over a perceived personal violation in a vacuum.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:30 pm to Alahunter
I agree with a lot that has been said. I think some people take it further than is really happening, but that is just my opinion.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:31 pm to Alahunter
quote:
Yeah. That's NEVER happened in the U.S., has it?
No, nobody has ever had their domain invaded and their person arrested for vocalizing displeasure over the telephone in this country.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:35 pm to Roger Klarvin
I view this a lot like precrime on Minority Report. Yes I agree it saves lives. No doubt.
Shut that effer down the first time it's abused. I'm afraid that has passed though.
Shut that effer down the first time it's abused. I'm afraid that has passed though.
This post was edited on 6/23/13 at 6:37 pm
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:39 pm to semotruman
quote:I'm going with idiot, the guy went from a great job in Hawaii and a hot girlfriend, to being on the run for the rest of his life for information most of us already knew was going on in the first place.
Edward Snowden - Traitor or Patriot?
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:42 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Having your phone calls heard by people who don't care?
If they don't care, why are they listening.
You just don't get it.
quote:
Moreover, is your freedom from others hearing private conversations worth your life? How about the lives of your wife, child or parents?
Yes. Just as the opposite is true.
quote:
Its very easy to act angry over a perceived personal violation in a vacuum
I'm not acting angry. I'm simply voicing my opinions on the matter. I don't believe Constitutional Rights should be infringed upon, without ratification from 2/3 of the States.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:45 pm to Alahunter
That is the problem, with the advancement of technology constitutional rights which are heavily involved with technology become more of a gray area and often different people have different views on how they should be treated.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 6:45 pm to semotruman
quote:
semotruman
making me come outta self banland. quote:
Edward Snowden - Traitor or Patriot?
And why the hell hasn't Mr. Clapper(Head of the NSA) been arrested for perjury to congress?
ETA: Hearing before the leaks came outK
This post was edited on 6/23/13 at 6:49 pm
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