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Rays using Sergio Romo as starting pitcher on B2B days as they implement "opener" role
Posted on 5/20/18 at 12:02 am
Posted on 5/20/18 at 12:02 am
Struck out the side (Cozart, Trout, Upton) today in the first day of the experiment before giving way to Ryan Yarbrough who went 6 1/3. Will start again tomorrow.
LINK
Interesting idea. Makes some sense and doesn't feel like wasting a bullet in the pen when many teams are batting their best hitters in those 1-3 spots.
As Cash said, also limits exposure for the starter.
quote:
"The thought process is fairly obvious,'' Cash said. "They are a heavy stacked right-handed lineup. Now, they can obviously change that, but a couple of their guys aren't going to move no matter who's pitching. So, if Romo can get through an inning or two, we'll see where we are at and probably give the ball to Yarbrough.''
Cash said the Rays value data that shows hitters facing pitchers for the third time in a game are at an advantage. By limiting Yarbrough's exposure to the middle and later innings, he might not see the Angels on that third go-around.
"Three years ago, that was the biggest secret in the world,'' Cash said. "But we've been kicking it around and we definitely believe in it.''
LINK
Interesting idea. Makes some sense and doesn't feel like wasting a bullet in the pen when many teams are batting their best hitters in those 1-3 spots.
As Cash said, also limits exposure for the starter.
7
Posted on 5/20/18 at 12:09 am to volfan30
Sergio still has a contract? Good for him.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 12:18 am to volfan30
I figured this was coming. Going to be interesting to see how other teams react do it
Posted on 5/20/18 at 12:20 am to volfan30
True starting pitchers will soon become a thing of the past.
There was talk before Perez’s injury for Texas Moving to a starter not going more than 3-4 innings to not face the lineup more than once or twice.
There was talk before Perez’s injury for Texas Moving to a starter not going more than 3-4 innings to not face the lineup more than once or twice.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 12:24 am to volfan30
Considering the 1st inning is the highest-scoring inning, I’m surprised this hasn’t been attempted before. It’s also much easier to pull a reliever if he’s having a bad day. The downside is losing a guy you might need in a high-leverage situation late in the game, but I could see this catching on.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 12:28 am to bayoucracka
This is why everyone needs to learn how to switch hit.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 1:05 am to bayoucracka
quote:
The downside is losing a guy you might need in a high-leverage situation late in the game, but I could see this catching on.
Way I see it, is that you aren’t in a high leverage situation if the pitching decisions you already made weren’t there.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 6:06 am to volfan30
Worked well last night, Romo struck out the side in the first
Posted on 5/20/18 at 7:30 am to volfan30
I've always wondered why no one has tried an entire pitching staff of relief pitchers.
Use about 5 a game, 2 innings or so apiece.
Use about 5 a game, 2 innings or so apiece.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 8:50 am to East Coast Band
quote:
I've always wondered why no one has tried an entire pitching staff of relief pitchers.
Use about 5 a game, 2 innings or so apiece.
This is where we need someone to come in and tell us they did that on The Show once and went 162-0 and won the World Series with less than a 1.00 team ERA.
Seriously though, if you buy into the whole "batter has the advantage the third time around" idea, why even let him see a guy twice? The "By Committee" approach would be a pretty good idea.
Hell, imagine the Astros throwing Verlander, Cole, and Morton in the same game. 3 innings each. Yikes!
Posted on 5/20/18 at 9:16 am to Cowboyfan89
quote:
This is where we need someone to come in and tell us they did that on The Show once and went 162-0 and won the World Series with less than a 1.00 team ERA.
Seriously though, if you buy into the whole "batter has the advantage the third time around" idea, why even let him see a guy twice? The "By Committee" approach would be a pretty good idea.
Hell, imagine the Astros throwing Verlander, Cole, and Morton in the same game. 3 innings each. Yikes!
Sure it makes sense.....until october. Bullpen guys are failed starters for the most part who dont have the stuff to make it consistently twice through the order and then you are depending on them to consistently get batters out multiple times during a 7 game series. See Brandon Morrow game 5 WS. Then you have a staff not equipped to go past the 5th when you need it. The answer isnt more bullpen innings, its develop your starters better.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 10:46 am to Adam Banks
quote:
Sure it makes sense.....until october. Bullpen guys are failed starters for the most part who dont have the stuff to make it consistently twice through the order and then you are depending on them to consistently get batters out multiple times during a 7 game series. See Brandon Morrow game 5 WS. Then you have a staff not equipped to go past the 5th when you need it. The answer isnt more bullpen innings, its develop your starters better.
I agree. That's why it's really nothing more than a novelty concept.
It's fun to think about though.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 11:10 am to McCaigBro69
quote:
True starting pitchers will soon become a thing of the past.
Wrong because a pitcher that can get batters out 3+ times a game are the most valuable.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 11:26 am to volfan30
Revolutionary idea
Posted on 5/20/18 at 11:48 am to Adam Banks
quote:yeah because if you had mariano rivera trevor hoffman john smolts and eric gagne in 2002 there's no way they could get you through 9 innings lmao
Bullpen guys are failed starters
Posted on 5/20/18 at 11:58 am to Adam Banks
I think it will be a combination of the two (traditional starter and "opener."
I think if a team can get 2-3 good starters, then you're better off trotting out an opener for game 4 and 5 and going by committee vs. overpaying a fringe starter or depending on a terrible #5 guy.
For instance, the Nationals would have Scherzer and Strasburg and then invest in solid bullpen guys and go by committee. So you'll have 2 starters in the traditional role and carry 10-11 bullpen guys. I think that model has a chance of working in October.
Honestly, I think this model would be the Rockies' best chance at competent pitching since no FA wants to play there now and they're budget constrained.
I think if a team can get 2-3 good starters, then you're better off trotting out an opener for game 4 and 5 and going by committee vs. overpaying a fringe starter or depending on a terrible #5 guy.
For instance, the Nationals would have Scherzer and Strasburg and then invest in solid bullpen guys and go by committee. So you'll have 2 starters in the traditional role and carry 10-11 bullpen guys. I think that model has a chance of working in October.
Honestly, I think this model would be the Rockies' best chance at competent pitching since no FA wants to play there now and they're budget constrained.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 2:07 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
yeah because if you had mariano rivera trevor hoffman john smolts and eric gagne in 2002 there's no way they could get you through 9 innings lmao
You named the four best closers of all time one of which who is a HOF as primarily a starter. Also that wasn’t my point that it couldn’t be done for A game. Heck even 2 or 3. My point is that the “reliver advantage” vs a starter when on the third time through is gone when you face the same team 7 times over 10-12 days. To use another example look at David Robertson or kahnle in the ALCS or heck bregman vs kenley Jansen from game 1 to game 5
Posted on 5/20/18 at 2:32 pm to Adam Banks
You said the relievers are mostly failed starters which in todays game just simply isnt true. Just about every team in baseball has a closer that could probably start. Hell most pf the time closer is your best pitcher becasue they throw so damn hard.
quote:if this was the case closers would get rocked every year in the playoffs by games 4 and 5. No its different when you see them different days guys stuff change from day to day. The theory is sound its different seeing the same guy once 5 days in a row vs 3 times in a 2 hour time span. You get locked in way more. Plus whenever yku have different pitchers throwing different stuff in between the time you face the same guy it changes things.
when you face the same team 7 times over 10-12 days
Posted on 5/20/18 at 2:53 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
You said the relievers are mostly failed starters which in todays game just simply isnt true. Just about every team in baseball has a closer that could probably start
Im going to run down the list of the best relievers
Aroldis Chapman early they tried as a starter with the reds and actually was brought up as a starter but subsequently kept to the pen
Miller-failed all over the place as a starter
Wade Davis-Failed starter
Brandon Morrow-Failed starter
Zach Britton-failed starter
ETA I think that covers everyone except Jansen who is a failed catcher and Kimbrel. Kimbrel stands alone I guess
quote:
if this was the case closers would get rocked every year in the playoffs by games 4 and 5.
Look at Andrew Miller and Aroldis Chapman from 2017. Same as this past year.
Most teams get away with it in the DS over a 5 game stand. When it gets to the 7 game series they get blown up sooner or later.
quote:
No its different when you see them different days guys stuff change from day to day.
Most relievers are 2 plus pitch guys. When an elite hitter has seen a guy with two pitches 3-4 times in a span of a week and a half they are gonna be looking to tee off. It has occurred with the "best pens in the game" for two years in a row.
Over a 7 game series there is going to be 2-3 AT MOST relievers that a manager will trust in a high leverage situation even in the best pens.
This post was edited on 5/20/18 at 3:12 pm
Posted on 5/20/18 at 3:46 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
yeah because if you had mariano rivera trevor hoffman john smolts and eric gagne in 2002 there's no way they could get you through 9 innings lmao
Gagne and Rivera were failed starters and Smoltz only pitched out of the bullpen because he was coming off Tommy John Surgery and needed time to build up his arm strength.
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