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re: The defense is a mess
Posted on 9/15/16 at 9:55 am to Porter Osborne Jr
Posted on 9/15/16 at 9:55 am to Porter Osborne Jr
Navy took a triple option buzz saw to us.
It was a bowl game and some of our defensive guys were looking to save their knees and ankles. It looked that way to me anyway. I can't blame them either as some were NFL bound that year or the next.
It was a bowl game and some of our defensive guys were looking to save their knees and ankles. It looked that way to me anyway. I can't blame them either as some were NFL bound that year or the next.
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Posted on 9/15/16 at 9:59 am to Porter Osborne Jr
quote:
What happened with the Navy game?
The Navy game was a bowl game several years ago that exposed our former DC's kryptonite - the triple option. We were the better team in every way, and should have won that game. But Navy figured out they could gash us on running plays because we wouldn't commit to stopping the run. It was ugly, and frustrating to watch us get run over by an undersized (but admittedly scrappy) team.
Posted on 9/15/16 at 10:08 am to semotruman
Navy beat us in every aspect of that bowl game. They were the better team that day and we would not have won that game, because we couldn't stop their triple option just like Auburn. No gap control period.
Posted on 9/15/16 at 10:23 am to semotruman
Hell, you can't stop that run O even with gap control. Bama gave up 350 to Georgia Southern a few years ago. Georgia Tech is usually good for 250+ against us.
Posted on 9/15/16 at 10:45 am to Porter Osborne Jr
I think this is all part of a process of changing to a 3-4 defense.
Odom ran a 3-4 at Memphis. Wilson and Shipp came from 3-4 schemes.
On the DL Beckner, Moore, and maybe Frazier could play DE in a 3-4. Williams, Howard, and Williams could be good in a rush LB role.
Mizzou has been recruiting bigger DLs since Odom came along.
Also Mizzou is talking with Graves about playing DL and LB.
Odom ran a 3-4 at Memphis. Wilson and Shipp came from 3-4 schemes.
On the DL Beckner, Moore, and maybe Frazier could play DE in a 3-4. Williams, Howard, and Williams could be good in a rush LB role.
Mizzou has been recruiting bigger DLs since Odom came along.
Also Mizzou is talking with Graves about playing DL and LB.
Posted on 9/15/16 at 11:16 am to JesusQuintana
quote:
This will be my last post in this thread because people are so dug in to their position it's getting beyond stupid.
quote:
JesusQuintana
Posted on 9/15/16 at 11:30 am to Wtodd
quote:
Past years defense wasn't a gimmick & it still required that the guys maintain their gaps
The scheme itself wasn't a gimmick.
But by nature it created inflated stats.
Which allowed us to sell it on the recruiting trail.
Which is kind of gimmicky.
Posted on 9/15/16 at 1:42 pm to Supreme Tiger
mubobby from this morning on tigerboard...
He went on to say, paraphrasing, that it's Odom's decision - Cross is doing nothing Odom hasn't approved/directed. As Navynuke has alluded, this scheme requires the players to make reads both pre- and post-snap, when last year they only read pre-snap. They have to think more, which makes them play slow and out of position. But, that it's not terribly different than what we ran in 2013 - what Steck moved away from in the SECCG that killed us with Auburn.
Odom does have the team's respect - so hopefully they'll get it worked out sooner rather than later.
quote:
There is a lot of unrest among the ranks. Players are resisting the new scheme because they don't like it, and are questioning why it was changed after what the defense did last year.
Coaches are doing a poor job implementing it. It's complicated, and our guys are playing slow as a result
Quite frankly, a disaster on multiple levels right now.
He went on to say, paraphrasing, that it's Odom's decision - Cross is doing nothing Odom hasn't approved/directed. As Navynuke has alluded, this scheme requires the players to make reads both pre- and post-snap, when last year they only read pre-snap. They have to think more, which makes them play slow and out of position. But, that it's not terribly different than what we ran in 2013 - what Steck moved away from in the SECCG that killed us with Auburn.
quote:
The scheme is not poor in design, it's poor in execution for a multitude of reasons.
The players are better than this, and the scheme is better than this. It's just a matter of getting guys on the same page and executing what needs to be done. It's a lot more complicated than what we previously ran, but in theory it's solid.
Previously, our guys had to worry about pre snap reads nearly exclusively. This defense has both pre and post snap reads so it gives the guys more to thank about. Again, in theory it covers more bases but if not executed correctly it leads to poor position and guys playing slow. It's no coincidence that the tackling has been poor.
Odom does have the team's respect - so hopefully they'll get it worked out sooner rather than later.
Posted on 9/15/16 at 1:50 pm to semotruman
Below are Dave Matter's quotes from his chat this AM and they summarize my take on the scheme change.
quote:
Yes, this is the scheme Odom wanted to install. Cross, too. It's not as uncommon as some people think. This is big boy defensive football. You don't consistently stop power running games without controlling gaps. For years Missouri had success allowing their linemen to fire off the ball and rush the passer but they'd still get overpowered and out-gapped in some matchups with more sophisticated running games. Odom wants a more complete defense, not a one-dimensional system.
by dmatter 12:22 PM
The thinking is this defense will be better suited against the more physical teams in the SEC that want to line up and run the ball. Georgia. Arkansas. Tennessee. LSU. Missouri will still face some spread offenses that want to throw it 40 times a game but not like it did in the Big 12. I think Odom believes that you can win games with the old system - but not necessarily championships. He has the long view in mind here.
by dmatter 12:49 PM
This post was edited on 9/15/16 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 9/15/16 at 1:54 pm to navynuke
quote:
I think Odom believes that you can win games with the old system - but not necessarily championships. He has the long view in mind here.
So do you take that as he's willing to take a step back this year with an eye toward the future? Or was he not anticipating the challenges and resistance?
Posted on 9/15/16 at 2:04 pm to navynuke
Growing pains will happen with any new system. Look at Bert's first year in Arkansas as a prime example. Is it a better system in the long run?
Well Odom is going to be here for a few years so we will know the answer... in the long run. I will say that facing teams that love to run the ball down your throat and not being able to control the gaps is a recipe for disaster. How many teams in the last decade or so has Alabama cheerfully steamrolled on the ground because they could not do that?
I didn't expect, I don't think most of us did, that there would be this much of a step back. And I will admit I've called for y'all to turn the dogs loose. But, if Odom thinks this is the long term solution to shut down the power running games you will face while you are in the SEC, (or, for that matter, if you go to the Big Ten) then its probably a good idea to try it.
I recently rewatched the 2015 Arkansas vs Missouri game and I was surprised at how well we moved Mizzou off the line of scrimmage. In 2014 vs Chaney's "when in doubt panic and go full on air raid" y'all killed us. But with Arkansas doubling down on the power run we moved the ball up and down the field despite Brandon Allen not having a monster game like he had been pulling out every week.
Short run this is probably going to hurt. Long run, well... long run this might be what you need to do.
Well Odom is going to be here for a few years so we will know the answer... in the long run. I will say that facing teams that love to run the ball down your throat and not being able to control the gaps is a recipe for disaster. How many teams in the last decade or so has Alabama cheerfully steamrolled on the ground because they could not do that?
I didn't expect, I don't think most of us did, that there would be this much of a step back. And I will admit I've called for y'all to turn the dogs loose. But, if Odom thinks this is the long term solution to shut down the power running games you will face while you are in the SEC, (or, for that matter, if you go to the Big Ten) then its probably a good idea to try it.
I recently rewatched the 2015 Arkansas vs Missouri game and I was surprised at how well we moved Mizzou off the line of scrimmage. In 2014 vs Chaney's "when in doubt panic and go full on air raid" y'all killed us. But with Arkansas doubling down on the power run we moved the ball up and down the field despite Brandon Allen not having a monster game like he had been pulling out every week.
Short run this is probably going to hurt. Long run, well... long run this might be what you need to do.
Posted on 9/15/16 at 2:06 pm to semotruman
I would use caution in calling it a step back. WVU only scored 26 points or less 3 times last year. In 2 of those 3 games they played teams that use some variant of Cover 4 scheme behind a read and react front, TCU and KSU.
The biggest issue that I am seeing right now is overall tackling and getting the WLB to shed and get to the ball. There were multiple opportunities in each of the last two games to record TFLs or at least minimize a gain but the first guy missed. That has to be better regardless of what scheme is being used.
The biggest issue that I am seeing right now is overall tackling and getting the WLB to shed and get to the ball. There were multiple opportunities in each of the last two games to record TFLs or at least minimize a gain but the first guy missed. That has to be better regardless of what scheme is being used.
This post was edited on 9/15/16 at 2:07 pm
Posted on 9/15/16 at 2:10 pm to navynuke
EMU also scored 22 last year against LSU.
Posted on 9/15/16 at 2:12 pm to semotruman
quote:
So do you take that as he's willing to take a step back this year with an eye toward the future? Or was he not anticipating the challenges and resistance?
Really in the end, all that matter is....He's the coach, and can and did make the decision to change.
So sink or swim, the new Defense is his baby now.
After 2 games, his D has given up just shy of 900 yards, and 5 TD's. and 47 points
Let's see how they look against Georgia, and the rest of the year.......
If not a W, at least hoping to see improvement each game
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