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re: Obama's Farewell Address and what you will remember him for.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 11:42 am to The Spleen
Posted on 1/16/17 at 11:42 am to The Spleen
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As for race relations, I'll never understand the criticism of him being divisive. I think he had a difficult burden as the first black president, and he struggled at times with it. Many white people expected his election to maybe put a rest the notion that there was still racism in this country. Many black people expected him to be a voice for the discrimination and racism they still experience today. And to many on both sides, he failed them. I just don't see how a black giving his perspective on a racial issue is divisive just because that perspective is counter to the white man's perspective.
So many things wrong here.
First off, and most importantly, he's mixed. Not "oh I'm a sixteenth Irish way back down the line," but the direct offspring of one white parent and one black parent. The fact that he eschewed that heritage in favor of embracing the more politically expedient, archaic "one drop rule" perspective of being black is, frankly, reprehensible. In and of itself, that was an egregious blow to racial harmony.
His incessant interjection into racially divisive matters is a horrible precedent that helped stoke racial fires already burning. Additionally, the advent of his presidency further entrenched racial identity politics. The political dialogue has deteriorated significantly along racial lines since he's been in office.
I'm not blaming him for all of our strife as a country on that front, but his conduct didn't help matters. At all.
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Posted on 1/16/17 at 12:24 pm to TbirdSpur2010
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The fact that he eschewed that heritage in favor of embracing the more politically expedient, archaic "one drop rule" perspective of being black is, frankly, reprehensible.
No offense, but you sound pretty ignorant on his upbringing and history. His white mother went out of her way to raise him being knowledgeable of his black heritage, and loaded him down with books on famous black people. His white grandfather regularly took him to the black bars. Sure, he was raised in a white household and that gave him access to a life most black people of his time didn't have, but to suggest he embraced his blackness out of political expediency is comical.
Further, he didn't eschew any of his heritage. His being raised in a white world gave him a perspective that allowed him to go into predominantly white rural areas and connect with voters in 2008 and 2012.
I do think that upbringing and perspective he had gave him a blind spot to the racial disharmony in parts of the country. He lived his whole life where he was mostly accepted into white circles, while also experiencing occasional moments where he wasn't because he was 1/2 black. But the former outnumbered the latter, and that gave him a belief and hope that this country wasn't as racist as many blacks felt it was.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 12:30 pm to The Spleen
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you sound pretty ignorant on his upbringing and history.
Incorrect.
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to suggest he embraced his blackness out of political expediency is comical.
Arguments to the contrary are comical. Are you really going to sit here and pretend that he gave equal weight to BOTH sides of his heritage? Come now.
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he didn't eschew any of his heritage.
In how he presented himself, he most certainly did.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 12:45 pm to TbirdSpur2010
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Are you really going to sit here and pretend that he gave equal weight to BOTH sides of his heritage?
No. The word you used was "eschew." A synonym for it is renounce. I do think once he got into politics he gave more weight to his black heritage, without renouncing his white heritage. I don't think he wins the presidency in 2008 or 2012 without using his white heritage to connect with white voters. I don't even think he wins his 2004 Senate race without that.
But I don't think him identifying himself as black was political expediency. His mom told him he was black, and he had always identified himself as black long before he got into politics. He effectively used his heritage of both to win his Senate seat, and the presidency, and I'll concede he used his black heritage more than his white heritage.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 12:57 pm to TbirdSpur2010
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Arguments to the contrary are comical. Are you really going to sit here and pretend that he gave equal weight to BOTH sides of his heritage? Come now.
Agreed but to be fair, everyone was ready to announce him as our first Black president and not our first President with African-American heritage. Just a small factor that should be looked at as well.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 1:05 pm to pvilleguru
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I didn't have a problem with him essentially apologizing for Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Which never happened. Even the psychos on the poliboard were foaming at the mouth waiting for him to essentially apologize for the nukes but slowly backed out of the room when he didn't. Never seen a group of people so disappointed that the president didn't do something that would have pissed them off.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 1:42 pm to The Spleen
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The word you used was "eschew." A synonym for it is renounce.
Don't get stuck in the thesaurus. The definition of "eschew" is "to avoid habitually especially on moral or practical grounds."
I never said he renounced his white heritage--only that he deliberately eschewed it. There is a difference.
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I do think once he got into politics he gave more weight to his black heritage
Which bolsters my point.
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I don't think him identifying himself as black was political expediency.
It most certainly was.
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I'll concede he used his black heritage more than his white heritage.
My point is that hif he were truly interested in altruistic bettering of race relations, we'd have seen him deliberately couch himself as a mixed candidate. Honestly, if he had done that at the outset, I'd have respected him a little more. His heritage could have and should have been a resonant touchstone for underscoring the scope of race mixing and the state of race relations in America.
Instead, all we got was black this black that. All we got was him abiding by that retarded one drop rule that is a favorite of true racists everywhere. All we got was him eagerly dropping his two cents when there was a whisper of some racial slight against black people, but not nearly equitable commentary going the opposite direction.
He absolutely showed favoritism in his heritage, and let that racist favoritism show through in how he ran and how he governed.
This post was edited on 1/16/17 at 1:43 pm
Posted on 1/16/17 at 1:45 pm to rockiee
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to be fair, everyone was ready to announce him as our first Black president and not our first President with African-American heritage. Just a small factor that should be looked at as well.
Oh I definitely agree with that. I just think Obama is a charlatan who saw a greater political upside to cashing in on that prevailing sentiment.
Politically savvy move. Not knocking him for that. But when that's his M.O., he shouldn't be held up as some great racial messiah.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 1:58 pm to TbirdSpur2010
I think our difference of opinion on this illustrates my initial point that Obama had maybe an unfair burden being the first president of color(is that a better way to put it?) Everyone put a different expectation on how he should handle that burden, and for many he failed that burden. In everything I've read about him, including his memoir, he stuck true to who he believed himself to be though. He was raised to identify himself as a black, and worked to embrace that. I don't think it was political expediency that motivated him to do that.
I don't either. I just don't see him as racially divisive.
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he shouldn't be held up as some great racial messiah
I don't either. I just don't see him as racially divisive.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 2:13 pm to The Spleen
Here are some of Obama's comments on Hiroshima:
"Yet in the image of a mushroom cloud that rose into these skies, we are most starkly reminded of humanity's core contradiction . . . How easily we learn to justify violence in the name of a higher cause."
"Hiroshima teaches this truth . . . The scientific revolution that led to the splitting of the atom requires a moral revolution as well."
"The memory of August 6, 1945 must never fade . . . It fuels our moral imagination. It allows us to change."
"Hiroshima and Nagasaki are known not as the dawn of atomic warfare but as the start of our own moral awakening."
if that's not an apology, it is at least Obama virtue signaling using the issue.
"Yet in the image of a mushroom cloud that rose into these skies, we are most starkly reminded of humanity's core contradiction . . . How easily we learn to justify violence in the name of a higher cause."
"Hiroshima teaches this truth . . . The scientific revolution that led to the splitting of the atom requires a moral revolution as well."
"The memory of August 6, 1945 must never fade . . . It fuels our moral imagination. It allows us to change."
"Hiroshima and Nagasaki are known not as the dawn of atomic warfare but as the start of our own moral awakening."
if that's not an apology, it is at least Obama virtue signaling using the issue.
This post was edited on 1/16/17 at 2:16 pm
Posted on 1/16/17 at 2:17 pm to TbirdSpur2010
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he shouldn't be held up as some great racial messiah.
I think even the reasonable liberals agree with that. At least I would hope so.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 2:18 pm to The Spleen
I see his actions as having been racially divisive.
He's a smart guy--he definitely could ascertain which emphasized tack (RE: black vs. mixed) would gain him more political traction. Despite one being obviously more racially divisive than the other, he made his decision along the lines of political expediency. It just so happened to also be the perspective of his youth.
He kept that blackness in the forefront of his social commentary while in office, to the marked detriment of race relations, IMO.
He's a smart guy--he definitely could ascertain which emphasized tack (RE: black vs. mixed) would gain him more political traction. Despite one being obviously more racially divisive than the other, he made his decision along the lines of political expediency. It just so happened to also be the perspective of his youth.
He kept that blackness in the forefront of his social commentary while in office, to the marked detriment of race relations, IMO.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 2:18 pm to rockiee
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I think even the reasonable liberals agree with that. At least I would hope so.
You'd be surprised
Posted on 1/16/17 at 2:38 pm to TbirdSpur2010
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You'd be surprised
I'm sure I would, I tend not to discuss politics with most of my friends/coworkers/family because too many get worked up over it and can't separate it. It really annoys me when someone can't see the faults of their party and candidates because of confirmation bias.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 2:40 pm to TbirdSpur2010
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He kept that blackness in the forefront of his social commentary while in office
He absolutely did in his second term. He was more cautious and guarded in his first term.
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to the marked detriment of race relations,
I think that had more to do with the reactions to his commentary than his actual commentary. I think he made missteps along the way. His initial comments on Ferguson being one of them. But I also think the work his DOJ has done in exposing various police departments for their discriminatory practices vindicates a lot of the commentary he has made. I also think some media outlets(looking at you Breitbart) took his comments and actions completely out of context to foment divisiveness.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 3:43 pm to The Spleen
I think TBird has been spot on and you're just looking for any way to excuse the damage he did while in office while using race for his own personal gain.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 3:51 pm to Alahunter
Posted on 1/16/17 at 4:04 pm to TeLeFaWx
I will remember him as an unqualified, incompetent, arrogant, lying, racist, thin-skinned, narcissistic, self-absorbed, cynical, hypocritical, vindictive, petulant, piece of shite, Kenyan megalomaniac.
....and those were his better qualities.
He is true scum of the Earth.
....and those were his better qualities.
He is true scum of the Earth.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 4:34 pm to The Spleen
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I think that had more to do with the reactions to his commentary than his actual commentary.
Commentary is just words. It's always about reaction to it. Obama chose his words quite poorly on too many occasions when it came to race IMO.
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I also think some media outlets(looking at you Breitbart) took his comments and actions completely out of context to foment divisiveness.
No. That's a cop out. Especially when the majority of the media is liberal and in the tank for Obama to begin with. Breitbart doesn't have nearly the reach of CNN. Also, can't blame Breitbart for divisiveness when Obama is doing his share of that from jump street. Can't just blame it on a couple of random soundbites out of context.
Also, just for the record, I don't back any particular news source. They're all biased and I don't like to pigeonhole myself into any sort of echo chamber.
This post was edited on 1/16/17 at 4:37 pm
Posted on 1/16/17 at 6:16 pm to The Spleen
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I also think some media outlets(looking at you Breitbart) took his comments and actions completely out of context to foment divisiveness.
When you say things like "the police acted stupidly" because they had the gall to detain someone breaking into a house until they determined he was the homeowner that had locked himself out, there is no need to change the context to forment divisiveness.
The divisiveness is in plain view.
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