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re: I know there are a lot of people who don't buy into "stars"
Posted on 2/3/11 at 11:16 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 2/3/11 at 11:16 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
if coaching staffs didn't buy into kids with high star rankings, they'd never stock their cupboard with talent
look at the teams at the top of the star game, and look at how they've performed over the past 5 years
Coaching staffs do the majority of their talent evaluation during a player's junior year in HS. That's before they get any kind of star ranking on Rivals or Scout or ESPN or wherever. So no, coaching staffs do not buy in to the star system. I have only ever heard of one staff doing that and it was Larry Coker when he was at Miami.
This post was edited on 2/3/11 at 11:18 am
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Posted on 2/3/11 at 11:17 am to deaux68
You really think ESPN is doing such a good job?..why is there such a big gap between their scores and the others?...I call bullshite on this one...only reason you like ESPN's score, it must be your highest ranking.... 
Posted on 2/3/11 at 11:18 am to MattP598
quote:
Yes, there are exceptions, but if you give me a team full of 5 stars I will beat a team full of 3 stars 8 out of 10 times.
Boise only needed one matchup against OU to win the Fiesta; Utah only needed one matchup against Bama to win the Sugar; TCU only needed one win over Wisconsin to take the Rose. When do these teams play again? Don't think they'll see 10 matchups. So take your overall series record while they take the title.
Where does coaching come into play?
Do you think that your coaches place stars on their prospects? Really?
So you trust the services and guys that may have never played the sport moreso than your HC and his staffs' 60+ years of hands-on experience and knowledge of the game?
This post was edited on 2/3/11 at 11:22 am
Posted on 2/3/11 at 11:22 am to MattP598
quote:
Yea stars don't matter. It's a complete coincidence that the top 10 in college football usually looks a lot like the top 10 in the recruiting rankings. It's also a coincidence that there were what, 9 SEC schools in the top 25 of the recruiting rankings? It's not like the SEC is the best conference in college football or anything.
You're insane if you can't see that there is a correlation between recruiting and top programs. Yes, there are exceptions, but if you give me a team full of 5 stars I will beat a team full of 3 stars 8 out of 10 times.
It actually is, the best coaches are usually the best recruiters, so I know they have more pull than any schmuck on a Scouting website.
IF it syncs up, woo hoo, but it doesn't take a genius to simple look at highlights and say "oh yeah, he's good" like Rivals and Scout does.
Do me a favor, pick up the book Meat Market, it tells you what Coaching Staffs think of recruiting websites...
Posted on 2/3/11 at 11:22 am to better
Alabama already has 6 commitments for next year. I don't know how many we'll have by the time Rivals comes out with their rankings but it will probably be around 12-15. Then Rivals will just give them all high ratings because they were founded by a Bama fan.
Posted on 2/3/11 at 11:26 am to better
quote:
Boise only needed one matchup against OU to win the Fiesta; Utah only needed one matchup against Bama to win the Sugar; TCU only needed one win over Wisconsin to take the Rose. When do these teams play again? Don't think they'll see 10 matchups. So take your overall series record while they take the title.
Where does coaching come into play?
Do you think that your coaches place stars on their prospects? Really?
So you trust the services more than your HC and staffs' 60+ years of hands-on experience and knowledge?
Yea Boise, Utah, & TCU can beat a team like OU every now and again. Do you really think they could go through the SEC without losing 4 or 5 games? They don't have the quality of depth teams from the SEC have and that comes from signing a full class of talented players. That is why I said 8 out of 10 times.
Of course coaching and development matter. Discipline, chemistry, etc. do as well. It's why a team as talented as Texas can have a losing season. However, recruiting is also why a team like Texas normally wins 10 games a year pretty much all the time.
Do I think coaches follow recruiting services? Absolutely not, but I do think they look for the best players. And most of the time the best players have a higher star rating. I also think recruiting services look at who coaches are recruiting. It's not uncommon to see a player commit to a high profile school, then get evaluated, and then get a bump in ratings.
Posted on 2/3/11 at 11:28 am to Crede15
quote:
Alabama already has 6 commitments for next year. I don't know how many we'll have by the time Rivals comes out with their rankings but it will probably be around 12-15. Then Rivals will just give them all high ratings because they were founded by a Bama fan.
Just as I thought......
Posted on 2/3/11 at 11:29 am to Crede15
I truly believe that they do a great job of evaluating the top 200 players or so but after that, there is no possible way you can say a 3 star cornerback from Iowa thats rated the 38th best corner is better than a 3 star cb from georgia that 61st. There is no possible way that all the kids in high school get rated accurately. There are thousands and thousands of high school football players that never even given a look, which is why for instance there is only 1 5 star rated player in the Super Bowl, which is Lamar Woodley from MICH. It will never be an exact deal so just hope your guys pan out outside the top 200.
Posted on 2/3/11 at 11:30 am to MattP598
quote:
You're insane if you can't see that there is a correlation between recruiting and top programs. Yes, there are exceptions, but if you give me a team full of 5 stars I will beat a team full of 3 stars 8 out of 10 times.
Georgia and Florida both have recruited well, and both have substandard years. On the flip side, Wisconsin and Michigan State were co-champs to Ohio State and did so with much lower ranked recruits.
Posted on 2/3/11 at 11:31 am to Crede15
quote:
Then Rivals will just give them all high ratings because they were founded by a Bama fan
Lol. You're a wizard. So your fans find your recruits?
Even more reason to trust the services more than Saban's years of experience and knowledge of the game.
Were you placing as much value on stars when DuBose, Fran, Price (oops), and Shula were leading your program? It seems that the fanbases that hype stars up the most are those that are doing pretty well at it. Interesting huh? Get excited about it. As a fan, have fun with it, but don't swear by it, young man. It's projections and opinions of guys like you that may have never seen a locker room. These guys must be developed, coached up, and then execute between the lines. Refer back to your Sugar Bowl game against Utah. You can't just come in to the stadium and say "We Win because Rivals/Scout/ESPN say we have much more talent than you".
Are you serious?
[I'm glad that LSU does well at recruiting, but we've had to do some staff overhauling the last 3 years to try to get our guys better prepared to exhaust their potential. Staff was replaced because of development & execution. Not stars!]
This post was edited on 2/3/11 at 11:32 am
Posted on 2/3/11 at 11:35 am to TheSecWEST
quote:
I truly believe that they do a great job of evaluating the top 200 players or so but after that, there is no possible way you can say a 3 star cornerback from Iowa thats rated the 38th best corner is better than a 3 star cb from georgia that 61st. There is no possible way that all the kids in high school get rated accurately. There are thousands and thousands of high school football players that never even given a look, which is why for instance there is only 1 5 star rated player in the Super Bowl, which is Lamar Woodley from MICH. It will never be an exact deal so just hope your guys pan out outside the top 200.
Well said.
Posted on 2/3/11 at 11:37 am to better
quote:
Lol. You're a wizard. So your fans find your recruits? Even more reason to trust the services more than Saban's years of experience and knowledge of the game. Were you placing as much value on stars when DuBose, Fran, Price (oops), and Shula were leading your program? It seems that the fanbases that hype stars up the most are those that are doing pretty well at it. Interesting huh? Get excited about it. As a fan, have fun with it, but don't swear by it, young man. It's projections and opinions of guys like you that may have never seen a locker room. These guys must be developed, coached up, and then execute between the lines. Refer back to your Sugar Bowl game against Utah. You can't just come in to the stadium and say "We Win because Rivals/Scout/ESPN say we have much more talent than you". Are you serious? [I'm glad that LSU does well at recruiting, but we've had to do some staff overhauling the last 3 years to try to get our guys better prepared to exhaust their potential. Staff was replaced because of development & execution. Not stars!]
What a bizarre post.
I meant Rivals was founded by a Bama fan. You always hear that in relation to Rivals having a Bama bias.
But I have no idea where the rest of that post came from. And did you really call me young man
Posted on 2/3/11 at 11:39 am to MattP598
quote:
recruiting is also why a team like Texas normally wins 10 games a year pretty much all the time.
Talent and playing in a weak conference contributes heavily to 10 wins in their case.
quote:
most of the time the best players have a higher star rating.
I'll respectfully disagree. There's a higher number of lower-rated recruits (by recruiting services. not the coaches) playing in the NFL than those that were rated 5*. That's been researched an proven. GB and Pitt's rosters have a number of these guys.
I agree that talent on the roster is important.
Where we disagree is who determines the value of that talent when a program chooses to recruit a prospect.
Example: Coaches have already started accepting commitments from 2012 while recruiting services are still chasing Cyrus and Clowney of 2011. You know why? because your are PAYING for a Subscription and want Cyrus and Clowney information. Recruiting services have not created their top 250/100/200/300 lists for 2012. Have coaches waited for those lists prior to making offers and accepting commitments?
This post was edited on 2/3/11 at 11:41 am
Posted on 2/3/11 at 11:42 am to Crede15
quote:
I meant Rivals was founded by a Bama fan.
Can't go by what you meant. Only by what you type. It's a computer. Not a mind reader.
quote:
And did you really call me young man
Yes I did. You came off as a prep or underclassmen.
This post was edited on 2/3/11 at 11:43 am
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