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re: DeBoer was right. Athletes can play amid sexual misconduct inquiries
Posted on 4/19/24 at 9:36 am to Tuscaloosa
Posted on 4/19/24 at 9:36 am to Tuscaloosa
I don’t give a frick about those dumbass title IX hearings. I care about the person who charged him with rape, thr circumstances, the evidence.
When someone is officially charged with rape, it’s after months of putting together iron clad, fit for courtroom presentations of evidence. There are people who know all of that evidence long before the legal charges are filed.
It’s entirely possible that the coach knew none of that evidence. I’ve said nothing about the rightness or wrongness of his decision to play the kid.
But it’s also possible he knew of the evidence that indicate the kids guilt, but used “we need to wait on the legal system” as a bullshite way to kick the can down the road.
I have no idea which is true.
When someone is officially charged with rape, it’s after months of putting together iron clad, fit for courtroom presentations of evidence. There are people who know all of that evidence long before the legal charges are filed.
It’s entirely possible that the coach knew none of that evidence. I’ve said nothing about the rightness or wrongness of his decision to play the kid.
But it’s also possible he knew of the evidence that indicate the kids guilt, but used “we need to wait on the legal system” as a bullshite way to kick the can down the road.
I have no idea which is true.
4
Posted on 4/19/24 at 9:41 am to Hugh McElroy
quote:
Sure. I hope Alabama’s coach isn’t running from the responsibility of his decision (right or wrong) like Alabama fans are.
And what are we running from? Due process?
Posted on 4/19/24 at 9:42 am to Hugh McElroy
quote:
It’s entirely possible that the coach knew none of that evidence. I’ve said nothing about the rightness or wrongness of his decision to play the kid.
That’s a pretty dramatic pivot from the tone you used throughout page one.
It would have been helpful if you had led with this.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 9:45 am to Shaft Williams
Why would you ever assume it's a coaches duty to investigate rape cases?
There are only 2 ways a coach can get in trouble in these things.
1. The coach knows it happened, but covered it up and didn't report it, while convincing the victim to not report it by intimidation or other methods.
2. The person has been formally charged by the police, and you continue to play them anyway. But in this case, it's mostly going to be on the school for allowing them to stay on campus.
If one of those two things didn't happen, then you're probably just crying because of who is involved, not because of what actually happened.
There are only 2 ways a coach can get in trouble in these things.
1. The coach knows it happened, but covered it up and didn't report it, while convincing the victim to not report it by intimidation or other methods.
2. The person has been formally charged by the police, and you continue to play them anyway. But in this case, it's mostly going to be on the school for allowing them to stay on campus.
If one of those two things didn't happen, then you're probably just crying because of who is involved, not because of what actually happened.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 9:49 am to Hugh McElroy
quote:
I don’t give a frick about those dumbass title IX hearings. I care about the person who charged him with rape, thr circumstances, the evidence.
When someone is officially charged with rape, it’s after months of putting together iron clad, fit for courtroom presentations of evidence. There are people who know all of that evidence long before the legal charges are filed.
It’s entirely possible that the coach knew none of that evidence. I’ve said nothing about the rightness or wrongness of his decision to play the kid.
But it’s also possible he knew of the evidence that indicate the kids guilt, but used “we need to wait on the legal system” as a bullshite way to kick the can down the road.
I have no idea which is true.
The idea that the coaches and school are somehow supposed to be better investigators than the police is laughable.
So is your claim that the police are just going to allow the guy to stay on the streets maybe harming another person in the process because they for some reason need 5 months to somehow come to a conclusion based on the evidence they collect all those months ago.
The only way they are going to wait that long is if they don't get evidence until then. Which negates your entire argument.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 9:57 am to Shaft Williams
excellent thread
DuBose doing his job at UWash, just like he will at Bama
DuBose doing his job at UWash, just like he will at Bama
Posted on 4/19/24 at 9:59 am to Shaft Williams
Desparate coaches do desparate things. No way this bites him in the arse
Posted on 4/19/24 at 10:02 am to swinetime
quote:
Desparate coaches do desparate things.
Now do Desperate Coaches.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 10:04 am to Hugh McElroy
quote:
It’s weak men who rely on policy to avoid the weight of leadership.
Not surprising it's an Aggy cheering on the Guilty Until Proven Innocent crowd
Sad
Posted on 4/19/24 at 10:09 am to Hugh McElroy
quote:
The coach always has final say on who plays and who doesn’t. If the coach decides someone can’t play or practice, then that’s it.
It’s weak men who rely on policy to avoid the weight of leadership.
We are not talking about a clear team rule the kid clearly violated that gets him benched. If the school can get the ever living crap sued out of it for arbitrarily removing the athlete from a team based off of allegations that are in the process of being investigated, do you think the coach can wink wink nod nod suspend him when the school could not? In that instance the coach just added himself to the long list of people getting sued in the case it turns out the athlete is innocent (or not convicted). If the only reason a reasonable juror can see as to why an athlete loses all their playing time is the ongoing allegation and it turns out to be false, that coach is getting nailed for implementing a de facto suspension that is not allowed by the school.
Schools have been getting the shite sued out of them based off of the kangaroo courts they ran when men were having their names destroyed based off of false allegations. This is resulting pendulum swing in the other direction. Schools are scared of doing anything until the police and/or courts are done because they do not want to get sued.
Sure DeBoer could have kept him on the team and benched him but that is a massively precarious legal position he would be putting himself in.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 10:11 am to Hugh McElroy
quote:
I’m glad Buzz didn’t wait to do the right thing
So the right thing is to assume "guilty until proven innocent?" Kind of goes against the US legal system. I pretty sure there have been multiple cases of women making false claims. The Duke lacrosse team rape case comes to mind.
I hope you never serve on a jury. If you are ever charged with a crime I hope your jurors all believe the same thing you do.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 10:16 am to Hugh McElroy
quote:
If I were a coach, and I had strong reason to believe one of my players raped someone, I ain’t playing him.
So now a coach is Sherlock Holmes??
Posted on 4/19/24 at 10:26 am to Hugh McElroy
What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Posted on 4/19/24 at 10:27 am to Hugh McElroy
quote:
It’s entirely possible that the coach knew none of that evidence. I’ve said nothing about the rightness or wrongness of his decision to play the kid.
But it’s also possible he knew of the evidence that indicate the kids guilt, but used “we need to wait on the legal system” as a bullshite way to kick the can down the road.
Liar. Yes you did, you idiot. You said it in the very next sentence.
And you're too stupid to realize your two paragraphs there actually prove to anyone reading this that you're imploding, you've already imploded, and your primary concern is trying not to look stupid on a message board at this point.
As for your stance, Woopie and that loudmouth redhead whatshername might as well go ahead and book you on The View.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 10:37 am to Hugh McElroy
quote:
When someone is officially charged with rape, it’s after months of putting together iron clad, fit for courtroom presentations of evidence. There are people who know all of that evidence long before the legal charges are filed.
There are some Duke lacrosse players that would like a word with you.
A National Institute of Health study showed that up to 10% of sexual assault charges are false. And that is probably low, I know they hoped to show that there were almost zero cases based on false accusations. Despite knowing this, a large number of cases that turn out to be false are still pursued by prosecutors. I have no doubt there are innocent people sitting in prison right now as the result of consensual sex.
It is a pretty scary idea that your life can be ruined by a lie and an overzealous prosecutor with political aspirations.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 10:59 am to Hugh McElroy
The Duke lacrosse scandal I referenced provided 100 million reasons why other schools and coaches are so cautious now about arbitrarily throwing players to the wolves before due process has run its course.
A whole lot of people had their worlds turned upside down because of the accusations of one woman who now is actually in prison for murder. Had one of the charged player’s family not been wealthy enough to fight Duke University and the state of North Carolina, all three likely plea bargained to a lesser offense that still would have branded them as sex offenders for the rest of their lives.
But some of you in this thread seem to be cool with that.
quote:
The Duke lacrosse case was a widely reported 2006 criminal case in Durham, North Carolina, United States, in which three members of the Duke University men's lacrosse team were falsely accused of rape.
Investigation and resolution of the case sparked public discussion of racism, sexual violence, media bias, and due process on campuses. The former lead prosecutor, Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong, ultimately resigned in disgrace, and was disbarred and briefly imprisoned for violating ethics standards.
Duke's athletic director at the time, Joe Alleva, who forced lacrosse coach Mike Pressler's resignation, faced criticism for his handling of this case. In 2008, Alleva announced he was leaving Duke for the athletic director position at Louisiana State University.[152] The lacrosse team, reinstated for the 2007 season, reached the NCAA Finals as the #1 seed. The Blue Devils lost to the Johns Hopkins University Blue Jays in the championship,
In the end, there was no trial—a fact that most people forget. The three players received $20 million each in a settlement with Duke. The university spent more than $100 million between legal fees, settlement costs, and other expenses to move on from the ignominy and preserve its “brand.”
A whole lot of people had their worlds turned upside down because of the accusations of one woman who now is actually in prison for murder. Had one of the charged player’s family not been wealthy enough to fight Duke University and the state of North Carolina, all three likely plea bargained to a lesser offense that still would have branded them as sex offenders for the rest of their lives.
But some of you in this thread seem to be cool with that.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 11:16 am to Shaft Williams
Paterno was right too. Not comparing the actual crimes, I’m just saying, Paterno did everything by the book and didn’t technically break any rules.
This post was edited on 4/19/24 at 11:17 am
Posted on 4/19/24 at 11:20 am to TN Tygah
quote:
Paterno was right too. Not comparing the actual crimes, I’m just saying, Paterno did everything by the book and didn’t technically break any rules.
Is that why Penn State took his statue down and his name off buildings? Joe Paterna went by the book.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 11:24 am to captdalton
Duke and AD Joe Alleva absolutely did the Duke head coach completely wrong. He went from reigning coach of the year to unemployed and unhirable. Even now, almost twenty years later, he isn’t a coach at a big time school. He is head coach at Bryant University.
Rush to Judgement
No Justice For the Coach
If there was any justice for him, it was that it cost Duke over $100 million dollars. Duke settled with him for an undisclosed amount. And it cost Joe Alleva his job as it should have.
It is just a shame that LSU immediately hired Alleva. He deserved to feel some pain like he had dished out.
Rush to Judgement
quote:
With the rape scandal at full boil here at Duke, Pressler was summoned to the office of then-athletic director Joe Alleva, where he was issued an ultimatum: resign immediately or risk being fired. So Pressler resigned, the sacrificial lamb needed to appease protestors and protect the school's gold-plated image.
No Justice For the Coach
If there was any justice for him, it was that it cost Duke over $100 million dollars. Duke settled with him for an undisclosed amount. And it cost Joe Alleva his job as it should have.
quote:
Pressler said Alleva told him it wasn't about the truth anymore. Pressler says he pleaded with Alleva to wait for DNA results on his players, but a violently worded e-mail from player Ryan McFadyen about strippers came later that afternoon. Alleva then told Pressler that Brodhead planned a news conference to announce Pressler's resignation and the suspension of the season
It is just a shame that LSU immediately hired Alleva. He deserved to feel some pain like he had dished out.
Posted on 4/19/24 at 11:30 am to bamameister
quote:
Is that why Penn State took his statue down and his name off buildings? Joe Paterna went by the book.
You’re missing the point idiot. The question isn’t whether it’s against the rules it’s whether it was the right thing to do. Joe Paterno did not break any rules, but it wasn’t the right thing to do and what Sandusky did was basically one of the worst things you can possibly do, and Paterno only did the bare minimum. There’s a reason Paterno didn’t wind up in prison.
Who cares now. He’s the Bama coach. These things are expected. I’d rather him play rapists than intentionally injure multiple starting QB’s, but both are probably going to happen en masse. It’s just what Bama does.
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