Walk me through what a QB sees presnap?

Football passing game is pretty complex and variable but I'll try. You're effectively asking... why is being a QB hard? Caveat is that I wasn't a QB but played offense in college so know a decent amount (not everything by any means) and saw the entire spectrum of really smart QBs vs. QBs who just couldn't get it figured out.

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It seems the good QBs know before the snap what the 2 best options might be, and read it that way. They seem to know whether checkdown is available very quickly.

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Sometimes. Depends on the system and play somewhat. Some plays have a normal read progression (1,2,3, checkdown) and others will have one "main" option with a checkdown. Going to a checkdown extremely quickly is often a reaction to a blitz or keying off something the QB is looking for in particular.

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I assume the offensive formation can distribute the defensive backs in certain ways.

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Yes, but you don't always know who's doing what. Number of safeties is less important than who is going to do what post snap... for example, the defense could be showing one safety with press corners but as the ball is snapped one corner blitzes and the other bails into cover 2, meaning 2 "safeties". Defenses practice to look the same pre-snap so they aren't telegraphing coverage.

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Then use motion to see if they are man or zone.

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Somewhat. You're also using motion to change matchups, force guys to move/adjust presnap - for example moving a guy across a formation may get a nickel/safety off of him and make a LB cover him. It's more than learning the coverage. Ideally you get someone to telegraph a blitz, but the defense knows this also so they may fake a blitz, for example. There's a mini chess match going on every snap between lining up and snapping the ball. You may also see that when you motion someone in xyz formation the D line shifts in a way that opens up a run to the backside... all kinds of stuff - and guys in the booth are looking for everything like that as a game is going on.

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How long does it take for a college QB to really get these presnap reads down? How much does QB need the receivers to see the same thing?

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Depends on a bunch of stuff but I've seen a junior/senior who just never gets it and a freshman/RS freshman pick it up very quickly: system complexity, football IQ, did he do it in HS or just get by with his ability, etc... Personally, I think running an offense in HS where you have to do it is a big factor. If you have a stud WR in HS you just toss the ball deep to that's less ideal. The rise of 7x7 is also great for QBs IMO because they get a crazy amount of reps reading defenses with it.

It's also not all pre-snap. Routes can change based on coverage during the play. When a QB sees a blitz as the play starts, that usually means somebody is going to be open and to quickly check to the receiver he was supposed to cover. For example outside LB blitzes, now RB is open coming out of the backfield (assuming he didn't just miss his blitz pickup which he probably did), quickly check down and hit the back.

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I’m guessing we will not see a bunch of 2 safety looks on early downs unless we can start throwing the ball down the field with some success. That makes running the ball difficult.

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It's less that we're not seeing two safety looks and more that the instant it looks like a run play the strong safety crashes into the box because he's been coached to do that all week. You punish this by running play action and hitting a deep seam or skinny post behind him for a TD. That depends on your WR potentially beating 1x1 coverage and QB being able to make the throw, which we haven't shown. Safeties are going to cheat until we show we can throw deep. I'd even say that we weren't so bad running the ball - our RBs averaged between 4.8 and 6.7 ypc... that's pretty darn good. We had drives continuously stall via fumbles, missed throws, penalties, etc...

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How much decision time in pocket does a college QB have? 3 seconds? 4?

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Again this varies. Normal shotgun pass the QB should usually be through his progression in 3-4 seconds. Short drop quick passing game could be more like 2 seconds.

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Seems like the NFL plays are a count quicker as far as snap to throw. I recognize that an NFL QB is elite and a college guy is very young.

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Well of course - they're pros so everything is a tick quicker and they watch more film / have more experience than any college QB ever could.

Freeze has said many times now that our receivers are not understanding their route trees.

Not sure if Thorne is on the same page either.

I imagine at some point during this year, this will come together to some extent,

Seems college aged players that have played their position for this many years shouldn't have problems with learning new concepts, or hell, even basic concepts... but here we are.

Defenses have seemed to get better against the spread as well over the last many years. Lots more speed on defense.

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jangalang

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This could be a very difficult answer depending on what type of offense plus the situation. Such as last week when we had the ball under 6 minutes we were going to run regardless of what the QB see.

Generally after getting the play from the sideline. The QB will count the number in the box. This happens in a blink of the eye generally you are so used to it you don’t have to count it’s just natural to know if 6,7, or 8 are in the box. Second depending on offensive and defensive alignment you identify where unblocked pressure could come from. Then you would identify where the safeties are. They have the ability to “roam” more so than corners. If a straight pass play you would identify the leverage of the defender for primary receiver. That means a lot in our offense because of the option routes for the WRs. Unless you’re an idiot it’s really not that difficult in seeing zone or man coverage especially if you have watched any film. If the opposing defense is good at hiding their coverage then as a coach you would set a game plan with some shifts or motions so that you can identify zone or man.

Post snap there at so many factors that determine what should happen but most offenses go over this in fl study and the game plan. That’s why it’s important that players are available for those 3 heavy install days prior to a game. And why it’s almost impossible to get quality reps for 3rd string and below.

It’s so detailed in some regards without having a white board or paused film to explain all but the above are some basics that you go over day 1 for a QB.

I always love the comments that a “QB never comes off his primary wr” or “he stares down his receivers”. We if you don’t know the play call how do you know this? And just because a QB is looking toward the direction of the WR doesn’t mean he’s looking at the WR he may be looking at the safety over the top of if the WR gained inside leverage prior to throwing.

Anyway hope this helps.

If this is in regards to our QBs I think Thorne sees the field fine I just think there isn’t trust in the WRs to be where they are supposed to be and if they can win their matchups. So looks like a timing issue no different then if a QB is constantly getting hit all the timing is thrown off. Robby I think sees the field fine pre snap but doesn’t post snap. Especially zone. And being a running QB that’s what you’re gonna see a lot.

Mike G reported tonight on TWR he confirmed with the WRs that the throw to Hooks the route was run 2 yard short. So by the time the route is complete you might be off 5 yardish.

That’s why Thorne doesn’t look comfortable he can’t trust the WRs. Gotta get that fixed this week in practice and get it working in the games.

In the old days, QB was recruited, redshirted, led the scout team, became a backup, progressed to starter over time.

Now with the portal, can a Hank Brown or Holden Geriner follow this path, or do we lose those to the portal as well?

IMO, the QB position may be the most impacted by the portal bc realistically, only one QB gets the meaningful snaps during a season.

The portal has pluses and minuses for players, coaches, and fans.

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Seems college aged players that have played their position for this many years shouldn't have problems with learning new concepts, or hell, even basic concepts... but here we are.

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With the rise of 7on7 things may have changed (I played 7on7 some but it wasn't that big) but in HS many offenses I saw ran a relatively simple passing offense. That said - I'm guessing most of the kinds of schools that produce 4* QBs these days are running something more complex.

I'll also say it's one thing to get the concepts when it's drawn up on a whiteboard or on film, and a huge leap up from that to know it so well that you can make the reads then hit a receiver at game speed with live lines. If it were simple, guys with great arms wouldn't wash out at QB so much in the transition from HS>College>Pros.

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Freeze has said many times now that our receivers are not understanding their route trees.

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Also a good point. If you've ever been watching a game and the QB throws the ball way downfield right as a receiver turns around on the outside, then they start yelling at each other, that's usually an example of the QB/Receiver reading different defenses.

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Robby I think sees the field fine pre snap but doesn’t post snap. Especially zone. And being a running QB that’s what you’re gonna see a lot.

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For folks that don't understand this piece - generally speaking in zone defenders play facing the LOS (i.e. they can react to a QB run more quickly) and are reading QB whereas in man defenders are more focused on their assignment, often with back facing the LOS. Teams will play more zone against a running QB particularly if he's a poor passer.

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what a QB sees presnap?

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nope at this thread. Knock yourselves out.

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You're the one who posted the detailed analysis from that random website no? That had some great breakdowns.

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Walk me through what a QB sees presnap?

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