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We know what we have with Gus
Posted on 12/6/17 at 3:06 pm
Posted on 12/6/17 at 3:06 pm
The good:
1. Great recruiting
2. Team is always physical
3. Enough talent and confidence to play with any team in SEC
4. Rarely gets completely upset like we used to have with Tubberville and Chizik
5. Gus offense one of few that’s consistently better than Alabama defense
6. Great O-line;
7. 1,000 yd RB
The bad:
1. Can’t develop QBs
2. Can’t win big games away from Jordan-Hare
3. 5 star recruits often flame out (Byron Cowart, Jovon Robinson, Roc Thomas)
4. Teams woefully unprepared before game 4 of the season
Conclusion: Gus is not perfect but solid A-
Certainly in top 33% of SEC coaches.
1. Great recruiting
2. Team is always physical
3. Enough talent and confidence to play with any team in SEC
4. Rarely gets completely upset like we used to have with Tubberville and Chizik
5. Gus offense one of few that’s consistently better than Alabama defense
6. Great O-line;
7. 1,000 yd RB
The bad:
1. Can’t develop QBs
2. Can’t win big games away from Jordan-Hare
3. 5 star recruits often flame out (Byron Cowart, Jovon Robinson, Roc Thomas)
4. Teams woefully unprepared before game 4 of the season
Conclusion: Gus is not perfect but solid A-
Certainly in top 33% of SEC coaches.
9
Posted on 12/6/17 at 3:10 pm to WildWillie
The bad:
1. Can’t develop QBs
- SW was good but physically weak
- JJ was physically a beast but mentally weak
- JS has progressed throughout the year and shown good growth
2. Can’t win big games away from Jordan-Hare
- Bob Stoops is one of the most successful coaches known and he had this reputation. One team has to lose. I would vote this more on "how often he gets to big games"
3. 5 star recruits often flame out (Byron Cowart, Jovon Robinson, Roc Thomas)
- Most that go to Bama flame out too
- When you recruit and land a lot of 5 *s you get more of them that bust. That's how the game.
4. Teams woefully unprepared before game 4 of the season
- This I agree with
1. Can’t develop QBs
- SW was good but physically weak
- JJ was physically a beast but mentally weak
- JS has progressed throughout the year and shown good growth
2. Can’t win big games away from Jordan-Hare
- Bob Stoops is one of the most successful coaches known and he had this reputation. One team has to lose. I would vote this more on "how often he gets to big games"
3. 5 star recruits often flame out (Byron Cowart, Jovon Robinson, Roc Thomas)
- Most that go to Bama flame out too
- When you recruit and land a lot of 5 *s you get more of them that bust. That's how the game.
4. Teams woefully unprepared before game 4 of the season
- This I agree with
Posted on 12/6/17 at 3:12 pm to WildWillie
Explain the QB thing. He has had NM, SW, JJ, and JS. Only JJ is a complete failure. SW was made of glass, but we won with him playing.
I would want to see the failure rate of 5* at other programs before commenting on that point.
The other two are plausible. I think the league needs to look at the schedule situation.
I would want to see the failure rate of 5* at other programs before commenting on that point.
The other two are plausible. I think the league needs to look at the schedule situation.
Posted on 12/6/17 at 3:15 pm to WildWillie
quote:
The bad:
quote:
Can’t win big games away from Jordan-Hare
Untrue. 2013 A&M, 2013 SECC, 2014 Kansas State, 2014 Ole Miss
quote:
5 star recruits often flame out (Byron Cowart, Jovon Robinson, Roc Thomas)
I would hardly say often. Also, Jovon didn't flame out. Was kicked off due to a harassment allegation that ended up being false. Don't think you can put defensive player performance on him either.
Other positives
I would also say Gus has run a clean program
He generally makes good hires and has been decisive with firing coordinators (EJ)
Posted on 12/6/17 at 3:17 pm to AUCE05
I guess I should say that Gus is horrible at recruiting and developing QBs.
At Auburn, Gus has literally never had a high school QB worth a danm.
Woody Barrett?
Every QB that was above average under Gus came from juco.
At Auburn, Gus has literally never had a high school QB worth a danm.
Woody Barrett?
Every QB that was above average under Gus came from juco.
This post was edited on 12/6/17 at 3:18 pm
Posted on 12/6/17 at 3:19 pm to WildWillie
I’d also add that Malzahns teams (for the most part) are well coached... usually take care of the football and don’t have a lot of penalties. I guess you could label them as Disciplined.
Aside from a couple instances, off the field issues haven’t been a problem either.
Aside from a couple instances, off the field issues haven’t been a problem either.
Posted on 12/6/17 at 3:25 pm to atlau
Some good points but how do you not put defense (or special teams) performance on the head coach?
Posted on 12/6/17 at 3:35 pm to WildWillie
quote:
. Teams woefully unprepared before game 4 of the season
This is what bothers me more than anything. How different would the last 2 seasons have been if we'd been halfway ready for Clemson?
Posted on 12/6/17 at 3:38 pm to WildWillie
Depends.
Let's take Cowart for example. As head coach, I would imagine, like a CEO, you have to trust your coordinators' judgement. Sure, Gus vets recruits, but at the end of the day, a DC is the one who determines if a player fits his system.
Once on the team, it was up to Garner to develop him. From all reports, Garner's style and Cowart's personality didn't mesh. I think Garner has proven he can coach up kids.
So in this instance, the only way Gus is responsible is either evaluating talent or it's on him because the coaches he hired missed. But to blame Gus for a defensive bust is overly simplifying it.
Let's take Cowart for example. As head coach, I would imagine, like a CEO, you have to trust your coordinators' judgement. Sure, Gus vets recruits, but at the end of the day, a DC is the one who determines if a player fits his system.
Once on the team, it was up to Garner to develop him. From all reports, Garner's style and Cowart's personality didn't mesh. I think Garner has proven he can coach up kids.
So in this instance, the only way Gus is responsible is either evaluating talent or it's on him because the coaches he hired missed. But to blame Gus for a defensive bust is overly simplifying it.
Posted on 12/6/17 at 3:39 pm to lowspark12
Not sure how people are denying the developing QB's critique. He has simply not brought a QB from high school and developed him into a success story. Maybe he can fix that with Chip in town. Maybe he can't. Maybe he can keep getting the jewels from JUCO and it won't matter. Time will tell.
Posted on 12/6/17 at 3:44 pm to WildWillie
quote:
3. 5 star recruits often flame out (Byron Cowart, Jovon Robinson, Roc Thomas)
We've had a ton of success from 2/3 of our top 50 recruits when you add in the following guys
-Carl Lawson (All American)
-Monty Adams (1st Team All SEC)
-Tre Williams (2nd team All SEC **always injured)
-Kerryon Johnson (SEC OPOY 1st Team All SEC)
-Derrick Brown
-Marlon Davidson
Posted on 12/6/17 at 3:48 pm to auburnnyc94
quote:
He has simply not brought a QB from high school and developed him into a success story. Maybe he can fix that with Chip in town.
HIS will be done! Amen
Posted on 12/6/17 at 3:49 pm to GenesChin
quote:
We've had a ton of success from 2/3 of our top 50 recruits when you add in the following guys
-Carl Lawson (All American)
-Monty Adams (1st Team All SEC)
-Tre Williams (2nd team All SEC **always injured)
-Kerryon Johnson (SEC OPOY 1st Team All SEC)
-Derrick Brown
-Marlon Davidson
Doesn't fit the narrative. Stop that.
Posted on 12/6/17 at 3:50 pm to auburnnyc94
quote:
He has simply not brought a QB from high school and developed him into a success story.
It's easier to dismiss Nick Marshall as a lucky outlier than to try and make this argument exception gymnastics play stick
Taking a UGA DB w 1yr JUCO QB experience and pumping out AU's Nick Marshall is more impressive feat than any HS recruit development story.
The better argument is, if Gus could do that with Nick Marshall, why is it that Gus can't eval/develop "more polished QB recruits?"
This post was edited on 12/6/17 at 3:51 pm
Posted on 12/6/17 at 3:54 pm to GenesChin
The evaluation of HS QBs seems to be the real issue.... hopefully Willis changes that perception.
I think we can all agree that Jeremy Johnson would’ve been butt no matter where he played... kid just didn’t have it, no matter who was coaching him.
I think we can all agree that Jeremy Johnson would’ve been butt no matter where he played... kid just didn’t have it, no matter who was coaching him.
Posted on 12/6/17 at 4:09 pm to lowspark12
quote:
The evaluation of HS QBs seems to be the real issue.
I'm saying it is JUCO + HS that is a problem. Here are the Gus recruits as HC/OC
09- Tyrik Rollison/Clint Moseley
10- Cam Newton
11- Kiehl Frazier
13- Jeremy Johnson / Nick Marshall
14- Sean White
15- Tyler Queen
16- Woody Barrett, JF3
Let's not forget some other top QB targets we went hard after
-Brandon Harris
-Treon Harris
-Deondre Francois
-Torrance Gibson
Marshall just looks like an outlier given the history. Sometimes coaches just get lucky rather than making a good eval
This post was edited on 12/6/17 at 4:24 pm
Posted on 12/6/17 at 4:11 pm to WildWillie
The Bad
-17 straight first downs being run plays
The Good
-The offense on fire at dsor and Bama
-17 straight first downs being run plays
The Good
-The offense on fire at dsor and Bama
Posted on 12/6/17 at 4:29 pm to AUveritas
In his defense, Saban is the same way. Hell, it sometimes takes him 2-3 games to settle on a QB. They would always lose to Ole Miss early in the season. The major advantage they have is UT. Saban basically has to prep for AU, LSU, and his OC game each year.
Posted on 12/6/17 at 4:33 pm to GenesChin
quote:
09- Tyrik Rollison/Clint Moseley
10- Cam Newton
11- Kiehl Frazier
13- Jeremy Johnson / Nick Marshall
14- Sean White
15- Tyler Queen
16- Woody Barrett, JF3
Let's not forget some other top QB targets we went hard after
-Brandon Harris
-Treon Harris
-Deondre Francois
-Torrance Gibson
I don't know why people work so hard to down grade Gus. You listed guys he went "hard" after, but left Watson off that list.
Bottom line is it is hard to evaluate QB's at this level and the next. There is a reason NFL coaches and GM's lose their jobs frequently from hitching their future to the wrong QB.
Saban doesn't have a great history of development, but he isn't as dependent on them as our system. IMO uga has probably done as well as anyone over the last 15 years of identifying and developing QB's and they have maybe 3 that had NFL talent. White was developed far beyond his ability and you'd probably never get any coach to admit it, but I suspect he was down our wish list. Willis in 1 season has shown small gains vs what we saw at A Day, JS got better this year. I always thought Trotter played above his pay grade, etc...
This post was edited on 12/6/17 at 4:35 pm
Posted on 12/6/17 at 4:34 pm to GenesChin
quote:Rollison had the talent. Clint wasn't meant to be more than a backup
09- Tyrik Rollison/Clint Moseley
quote:GOAT
10- Cam Newton
quote:Mentally weak. His dad was psycho.
11- Kiehl Frazier
quote:Quarterback yips / SEC Champ and fast as Jimmy John's delivery
13- Jeremy Johnson / Nick Marshall
quote:Good and wouldn't say he was a bust. He just like Mary Jane and had bones of paper mache
14- Sean White
quote:Like Krispy Kremes too much. Bust
15- Tyler Queen
quote:Don't know what Woody would've done. Likely nothing thanks to Stidham and Malik. / JF3 was a prayer
16- Woody Barrett, JF3
quote:
17 - Malik Willis
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