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Alex Wood 10-0 with a 1.67 ERA ,Andrelton Simmons .290 9HR'S 40 RBI and gold glover,
Posted on 6/17/17 at 8:15 pm
Posted on 6/17/17 at 8:15 pm
Craig Kimbrell 19 Saves.All 3 are obviously headed to the MLB all star game and 2 maybe to Cooperstown.
What exactly do we have to show for these guys??
Sean Newcomb and the best gosh darn farm system in MLB
What exactly do we have to show for these guys??
Sean Newcomb and the best gosh darn farm system in MLB
This post was edited on 7/9/17 at 1:50 pm
Posted on 6/17/17 at 9:55 pm to RD Dawg
Why is having the best farm system in the league funny? The Alex Wood trade was terrible and it would've been nice to get a little more for Andrelton but it'll all work out in the long run, if you can't see that then you're more stoopid than I thought.
Posted on 6/17/17 at 10:26 pm to RD Dawg
Alex wood trade was criminal
This post was edited on 6/17/17 at 10:27 pm
Posted on 6/17/17 at 10:47 pm to RD Dawg
With Kimbrel, Wood, Simmons, both Upton, Heyward, etc the team won 79 games in 2014. Thats including a payroll that was $114 million, and one of the worst farm systems in baseball. So yeah, those guys really put us over the top.
Why would we even want Kimbrel on a losing team? Great closers are a luxury. If we arent winning games, it doesnt matter who is there in the 9th. Plus, Johnson has been fine as our closer the past two years. How many more games would we have won with Kimbrel instead of Johnson? One? Maybe two?
Last year, Simmons had a wOBA of .302 and a wRC+ of 91. This year he is at .321 and 103. League average is always right around .330 and 100. So he has been below league average during his time with the Angels. Yes, he is a great defender, but his hitting has always been suspect. I wouldnt trust his power either. His SLG this year is .407 and ISO is .133. He hasnt had stats that high in 4 years.
The Wood trade was suspect then, and it still is. Its probably the one move I wouldnt have made, but lets not act like Wood doesnt have a injury history. He just pitched 60 innings last year, so who really knows if this Wood will stick, or if he will get hurt again, or if he reverts back to the pretty good pitcher that he was when he was when he was with the Braves.
Yes, losing sucks, but the team that was constructed in 2014 wasnt going to win anything. We were going to lose one of Heyward or Freeman no matter what. BJ Upton was awful and his contract was an albatross. Gattis was/is a DH that we forced into the field. We had no pitching(other than Santana on a one year deal). No depth, and no farm system.
The big rebuild worked for Houston, the Cubs, and now the Yankees, and we are close to being really good with our prospects hitting the majors or are making their way to AAA or AA. Things are about to turn around.
Why would we even want Kimbrel on a losing team? Great closers are a luxury. If we arent winning games, it doesnt matter who is there in the 9th. Plus, Johnson has been fine as our closer the past two years. How many more games would we have won with Kimbrel instead of Johnson? One? Maybe two?
Last year, Simmons had a wOBA of .302 and a wRC+ of 91. This year he is at .321 and 103. League average is always right around .330 and 100. So he has been below league average during his time with the Angels. Yes, he is a great defender, but his hitting has always been suspect. I wouldnt trust his power either. His SLG this year is .407 and ISO is .133. He hasnt had stats that high in 4 years.
The Wood trade was suspect then, and it still is. Its probably the one move I wouldnt have made, but lets not act like Wood doesnt have a injury history. He just pitched 60 innings last year, so who really knows if this Wood will stick, or if he will get hurt again, or if he reverts back to the pretty good pitcher that he was when he was when he was with the Braves.
Yes, losing sucks, but the team that was constructed in 2014 wasnt going to win anything. We were going to lose one of Heyward or Freeman no matter what. BJ Upton was awful and his contract was an albatross. Gattis was/is a DH that we forced into the field. We had no pitching(other than Santana on a one year deal). No depth, and no farm system.
The big rebuild worked for Houston, the Cubs, and now the Yankees, and we are close to being really good with our prospects hitting the majors or are making their way to AAA or AA. Things are about to turn around.
Posted on 6/17/17 at 11:04 pm to devils1854
C:Evan Gattis(ARB-5.2 mil)
1B:Freddie Freeman(20.89 mil)
2B:
3B:
SS:Andrelton Simmons(8.14 mil)
LF:
CF:BJ Upton(17.5 mil)
RF:
SP:Julio Teheran(6.47 mil)
SP:Alex Wood(ARB-2.8 mil)
SP:
SP:
SP:
CP:Craig Kimbrel(13.25 mil)
RP:Jordan Walden(ARB)
RP:David Carpenter(ARB)
Top Prospects:
Jose Peraza, Lucas Sims, Christian Bethancourt, Braxton Davidson, Ozzie Albies, Jason Hursh, Mauricio Cabrera,
Justin Upton-FA after 2015
Ervin Santaina-FA after 2014
Dan Uggla-FA after 2015
Jason Heyward-FA after 2015
Chris Johnson-FA after 2016
Kris Medlen, Brandon Beachy, Mike Minor, Johnny Venters-Injuries
Those 9 players that would be on the team now if we didnt start the rebuild would have cost right around 80 million for 2017. Thats just 9 players. Awful team right?
Thats what no rebuild would have gotten us.
1B:Freddie Freeman(20.89 mil)
2B:
3B:
SS:Andrelton Simmons(8.14 mil)
LF:
CF:BJ Upton(17.5 mil)
RF:
SP:Julio Teheran(6.47 mil)
SP:Alex Wood(ARB-2.8 mil)
SP:
SP:
SP:
CP:Craig Kimbrel(13.25 mil)
RP:Jordan Walden(ARB)
RP:David Carpenter(ARB)
Top Prospects:
Jose Peraza, Lucas Sims, Christian Bethancourt, Braxton Davidson, Ozzie Albies, Jason Hursh, Mauricio Cabrera,
Justin Upton-FA after 2015
Ervin Santaina-FA after 2014
Dan Uggla-FA after 2015
Jason Heyward-FA after 2015
Chris Johnson-FA after 2016
Kris Medlen, Brandon Beachy, Mike Minor, Johnny Venters-Injuries
Those 9 players that would be on the team now if we didnt start the rebuild would have cost right around 80 million for 2017. Thats just 9 players. Awful team right?
Thats what no rebuild would have gotten us.
Posted on 6/17/17 at 11:37 pm to RD Dawg
Yeah there was no evidence to suggest Alex would be this good, ever. Even in a best possible scenario. You win some, you lose some. And We have definitely won more trades recently than lost.
Posted on 6/18/17 at 5:38 am to SumterCoDawg
quote:
but it'll all work out in the long run, if you can't see that then you're more stoopid than I thought.
How exactlyou do you know "it'LL all work out"
Do we have a future Alex Wood,Craig Kimbrell or Simmons
in Gwinnett,Mississippi or Rome????
Posted on 6/18/17 at 5:46 am to devils1854
quote:
With Kimbrel, Wood, Simmons, both Upton, Heyward, etc the team won 79 games in 2014
So we're completely dismissing what they contributed to
the Braves in '12 and '13?I get the whole rebuilding strategy bUT the Wood and Kimbrell trades were obviously bad deals in regards to what we got in return.
Unless you think Wisler is going to somehow become a big time MLB starter
quote:
The big rebuild worked for Houston, the Cubs, and now the Yankees
Yankees and Cubs also have unlimited budgets to add pieces we do not.Houston is the team that we can hope to emulate.
This post was edited on 6/18/17 at 6:04 am
Posted on 6/18/17 at 6:56 am to RD Dawg
You seem pretty clueless about our farm system if you're asking if we have somebody as good as Alex Wood or Simmons. You don't have to agree with me that this rebuild is going to work out very well for us, you can be wrong.
Posted on 6/18/17 at 9:13 am to RD Dawg
quote:
2 maybe to Cooperstown.
Which two do you think makes Cooperstown?
Posted on 6/18/17 at 9:38 am to Porter Osborne Jr
Alex Wood or Simmons in the hall of fame rofl
Posted on 6/18/17 at 9:57 am to RD Dawg
quote:
So we're completely dismissing what they contributed to
the Braves in '12 and '13?I get the whole rebuilding strategy bUT the Wood and Kimbrell trades were obviously bad deals in regards to what we got in return.
You're not getting it. In 2012 and 2013, we had complete teams. Chipper, Bourne, Heyward, even Uggla were key contributors on offense, and we had Hudson, to go along with healthy guys in Medlen, Beachy, and Hanson.
The 2014 team was killed with bad contracts given out by Frank Wren. It wasnt getting better. It was only going to get worse since we had no flexibility with our money, and no farm system.
Heyward was gone after his contract. Justin Upton was in the same boat. I gave you a breakdown of who we would have had left this year, and how much money they would have cost.
Once again, who cares if we have Kimbrel on a bad team? A closer has to have opportunities, and he wouldnt have gotten any with a bad team.
Simmons? Why do you have such a hard on for him? He's always been a below average hitter. Two descent, not great months hitting this year doesnt change that. Hell, if we are going off small sample sizes for greatness, then Dansby blows Simmons out of the water since he has been hitting over .350 for the past month. Going forward, Id much rather have Dansby at short than Simmons.
quote:
Yankees and Cubs also have unlimited budgets to add pieces we do not.Houston is the team that we can hope to emulate.
Budgets have nothing to do with how the Cubs and Yankess have made great turnarounds.
Bryant, Schwarber, Happ, Almora, and Baez were drafted/signed by Chicago. They traded for Arrieta, Rizzo, and Russell.
The Yankees drafted/signed Judge, Sanchez, Severino, and Betances, and they havent even brought up the guys that they traded their big pieces for.
That has nothing to do with money. Thats good front offices seeing that they needed to rebuild with young guys as their core. The same thing that Coppy is doing. We just have a longer time table because the rebuild was much more difficult.
Posted on 6/18/17 at 10:42 am to SumterCoDawg
quote:
You seem pretty clueless about our farm system if you're asking if we have somebody as good as Alex Wood or Simmons. You don't have to agree with me that this rebuild is going to work out very well for us, you can be wrong.
There seems to be a lot talent on the farm pretty close to coming up. It's just fricking frustrating that this has taken 3 years (and counting). It's also a bit concerning to me that two of the big prospect pitchers appear to be complete whiffs (Wisler and Blair).
Allard is the prospect who gives me the most hope right now, and it seems like he's still a long way from being ready. Maitan is still 3-4 years out. Unfortunately, it seems like 2019 at the earliest is when we might start seeing a turnaround.
Posted on 6/18/17 at 3:41 pm to devils1854
quote:
Top Prospects:
Jose Peraza, Lucas Sims, Christian Bethancourt, Braxton Davidson, Ozzie Albies, Jason Hursh, Mauricio Cabrera,
Why wouldn't we have Soroka and Allard and Acuna and Maitan?
Not saying I am unhappy with where we are now but there were some serious missteps early on in the rebuild. Not much gleaned from the trades in terms of long term assets. Trying to be competitive this season will prove to be a mistake as well imo. Last year went well other than the final month.
This post was edited on 6/18/17 at 3:50 pm
Posted on 6/18/17 at 3:46 pm to devils1854
Simmons' defense would be very valuable with a young staff. All comes down to Newcomb and I guess Swanson but I would definitely lean Simmons over Swanson straight up. He is probably the best defender OAT at SS and is somewhere around average with the bat. A consistent 3-4 WAR SS is very valuable.
The Kimbrel/Upton and Wood/Peraza deals were both horrendous.
The Kimbrel/Upton and Wood/Peraza deals were both horrendous.
Posted on 6/18/17 at 3:57 pm to VADawg
quote:
Unfortunately, it seems like 2019 at the earliest is when we might start seeing a turnaround.
I don't understand what you think you aren't seeing. The Braves are 31-37. If I remember correctly, through the same amount of games last year, they were 19-49. We are already seeing moves in a positive direction.
Posted on 6/18/17 at 4:05 pm to eric4UA08
A lot of production from Phillips, Adams, Markakis, Flowers, Garcia, Johnson, Kemp.
None of those guys are in the long term plans. Obviously replacing Jace Peterson and Jeff Francoeur with Phillips and Kemp and Williams Perez with Jaime Garcia makes us better in the short term, but not sure how it gives you more hope for the immediate future.
If Albies and Acuna were producing like BP and Kemp at the big league level at 19 and 20 that would create a different outlook.
None of those guys are in the long term plans. Obviously replacing Jace Peterson and Jeff Francoeur with Phillips and Kemp and Williams Perez with Jaime Garcia makes us better in the short term, but not sure how it gives you more hope for the immediate future.
If Albies and Acuna were producing like BP and Kemp at the big league level at 19 and 20 that would create a different outlook.
This post was edited on 6/18/17 at 4:07 pm
Posted on 6/18/17 at 4:17 pm to volfan30
quote:
Why wouldn't we have Soroka and Allard and Acuna and Maitan?
If we dont rebuild, whose to say that we use those early picks on high school pitchers instead of college arms or bats to put a band aid on the problem?
Posted on 6/18/17 at 5:10 pm to devils1854
I knew the Alex Wood trade was a huge mistake from the get go but the Simmons trade is one I'd still wait and see on.
Even though if even Swanson is the hitter I think he probably is (horrible start but has been better since then) I honestly don't think he eclipses the value of Simmons as even if he doesn't make stupid errors (and it's stopped lately) he is nowhere in the universe as good as Simmons as a defender. I think the guy he's been since Milwaukee is more actually who he is at the plate. It'd be interesting to track how much value he'd put up from there to the end of the season.
That's not insulting as Simmons is a legendary defender. It's telling the truth.
Even though if even Swanson is the hitter I think he probably is (horrible start but has been better since then) I honestly don't think he eclipses the value of Simmons as even if he doesn't make stupid errors (and it's stopped lately) he is nowhere in the universe as good as Simmons as a defender. I think the guy he's been since Milwaukee is more actually who he is at the plate. It'd be interesting to track how much value he'd put up from there to the end of the season.
That's not insulting as Simmons is a legendary defender. It's telling the truth.
This post was edited on 6/18/17 at 5:11 pm
Posted on 6/18/17 at 5:47 pm to volfan30
quote:
A lot of production from Phillips, Adams, Markakis, Flowers, Garcia, Johnson, Kemp
The comment I referenced was about 2019.. so I'll address that timeline. It is unfair to include Adams in this list because Freeman would be producing the same, if not better, and he is in the 2019 plans. Flowers may also be in that plan if he keeps hitting +.300. Not saying he will. Harder to say with Kemp, I'd imagine they'd like to trade he and Markakis at some point, but I could see Matt still a part of this team in 2019, though doubtfully past that.
Johnson? He's already blown 4 or so saves. I don't think we are getting any above average production from him that's improved us from last year. I'm encouraged by Swanson's play, and Newk has been good, though far too early to make an assessment. Inciarte has been very good and I'd guess he will be here in 2019.
The comment I referenced was about having to wait until 2019 until we see a "turnaround". I contend that it is already happening.
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