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BoarEd
Arkansas Fan
thatguy45's sister house
Member since Oct 2015
11264 posts

What Sort of System Would You Like to See?
Instead of wondering who the next coach is gonna be, I was wondering what sort of system would everyone like to see ran with the new coach. Tempo, zone, motion?

Personally I hope we can keep the frantic tempo, but find a coach who can do it better than Anderson. It seems like Arkansas's trademark at this point.


TheCheshireHog
Arkansas Fan
Cashew Chicken Country
Member since Oct 2010
34482 posts

re: What Sort of System Would You Like to See?
Power spread. Still a fan of what Petrino ran here but even he’s moved away from it. I think we could compete though with that system and Morris’ recruiting.


WonderWartHawg
Arkansas Fan
Member since Dec 2010
8944 posts

re: What Sort of System Would You Like to See?
Refs seem to have changed the game. They won't let us play the same style that Nolan had success with.
I do like a pressure defense, and uptempo - but we need to be able to play a pretty decent zone and run a set offense when the other team makes us.


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Drewbie
Arkansas Fan
tFlagship
Member since Jun 2012
38494 posts

re: What Sort of System Would You Like to See?
I'll settle with any system that doesn't end in opposing coaches, NBA scouts, and former players being interviewed and saying we don't run anything.


DaleDenton
Baylor Fan
Member since Jun 2010
40001 posts

re: What Sort of System Would You Like to See?
quote:

Power spread. Still a fan of what Petrino ran here but even he’s moved away from it. I think we could compete though with that system and Morris’ recruiting.



He would probably have better success with how his QB recruiting has been thus far.

Just like Petrino's and Gus's down fall have been recruiting the exact opposite QB of what they had the most success with. Petrino went towards the Dual threat and while he won a heisman, the team had far less success than the less mobile Brohm, Mallett, and Wilson.

Gus has only had success with dual threats but keeps recruiting pocket passers that leads to his mickey mouse misdirection being a non-factor when the threat of pulling and running by the QB in the option is non-existent.


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DaleDenton
Baylor Fan
Member since Jun 2010
40001 posts

re: What Sort of System Would You Like to See?
quote:

I'll settle with any system that doesn't end in opposing coaches, NBA scouts, and former players being interviewed and saying we don't run anything.


We had a coach with a 90 set playbook who thought he was smarter than everyone else while having assistants who had questionable tact on the recruiting trail, Stan Heath.

The only coach since the mid-70s who truly didn't run anything or have a clue as to what he wanted his teams to do was Pelphrey.


Stonehog
Iona Fan
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Member since Aug 2011
28466 posts

re: What Sort of System Would You Like to See?
I think we could maintain the Arkansas "style" if we switched to a 2-3 Boeheim style zone. Easy to get steals and defensive rebounds that can lead to fast breaks and big runs. That's what the fans want to see, they don't care about trying to press anymore because the "press" we run right now is pointless. It takes one pass to break and then we have 2 or 3 players out of position and give up wide open shots.

Just look at all the runs Syracuse has made even when they barely make the play-in game. It's a difficult style to prepare for and it helps if you're having a bad night offensively because you force the other team to try and shoot over it. Obviously a good three point shooting team can break it but those are still low percentage shots.


Hogsfan005
Arkansas Fan
Fayetteville, AR
Member since Dec 2015
414 posts

re: What Sort of System Would You Like to See?


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Drewbie
Arkansas Fan
tFlagship
Member since Jun 2012
38494 posts

re: What Sort of System Would You Like to See?
quote:

The only coach since the mid-70s who truly didn't run anything or have a clue as to what he wanted his teams to do was Pelphrey.
Should I listen to NBA scouts, former players, and opposing SEC coaches all saying the same thing or DaleDenton? God this choice is going to keep me up at night.


DaleDenton
Baylor Fan
Member since Jun 2010
40001 posts

re: What Sort of System Would You Like to See?
quote:


Should I listen to NBA scouts, former players, and opposing SEC coaches all saying the same thing


Which what they said is that Anderson doesn't run set plays.

This is true he team runs an offense.

The NBA has had teams as a whole running offenses since the late 90s, the last notable offense ran in the NBA was Jackson's Triangle.

From there it was all about ISO for a while, now the current trend has been sets.

Calipari's teams do not run sets only, the majority of his team's play is based on his dribble-drive offense.

What makes college sports better than pro sports isn't the atheletes or level of competition, its the diversity present in philosophies, offenses, defenses, etc. The pro leagues are largely monkey see monkey do.


Drewbie
Arkansas Fan
tFlagship
Member since Jun 2012
38494 posts

re: What Sort of System Would You Like to See?
On a serious note, I think pressing beyond half-court has been relegated to a situational tactic rather than an over-arching defensive philosophy. You nailed all of the issues we've gotten plenty of looks at with the style over the years. How many decent defensive teams have we seen get absolutely feasted on because we constantly allowed the other team to break a shitty press for an open 3 or a free layup? It's the #1 reason why the main parroted take on this team regardless of the roster has been if we run into strong guard play, we're at a disadvantage. The press becomes completely useless then.

No more of that. Set up on your side of the court and make them score on you. Whether it's man to man or any variation of the zone, find what works for the roster and just play solid defense. There are no rules that say you can't trap or jump passing lanes if you don't press the entirety of the court. I love the style and I get my rose-tinted glasses all teary thinking back on it, but it's just not as viable anymore.


rockiee
Houston Astros Fan
Sugar Land, TX
Member since Jan 2015
19911 posts

re: What Sort of System Would You Like to See?
quote:

Easy to get steals and defensive rebounds that can lead to fast breaks and big runs. That's what the fans want to see, they don't care about trying to press anymore because the "press" we run right now is pointless. It takes one pass to break and then we have 2 or 3 players out of position and give up wide open shots.


Made the argument awhile back that I would love to see a zone look from a coach in the future. You have to recruit a certain type of player but you don't have to have great recruiting classes to run it, mainly just length. Shame we were a couple of years late on Mike Hopkins. I think he will do some good things at Washington.

quote:

It's a difficult style to prepare for and it helps if you're having a bad night offensively because you force the other team to try and shoot over it. Obviously a good three point shooting team can break it but those are still low percentage shots.




Yep, big issues are a team that can shoot well outside and a forward that can pass and make good decisions at the top of the paint.(not very common).



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OSqueal
Where ever the beer is
Member since Jan 2011
4373 posts

re: What Sort of System Would You Like to See?
A system that wins games. Period.


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Drewbie
Arkansas Fan
tFlagship
Member since Jun 2012
38494 posts

re: What Sort of System Would You Like to See?
quote:

The NBA has had teams as a whole running offenses since the late 90s, the last notable offense ran in the NBA was Jackson's Triangle.
The NBA also has players on rosters for a much longer period of time and obviously they are a higher calibur. Our best player doesn't have anywhere near the experience to be counted on to run an offense with a team. Not really apples to apples there.

I also understand that the majority of basketball is not run on set plays, the point is the complete lack of them under Mike. I don't care what philosophy you run, there are situations in basketball where you need to be able to manufacture offense from a stop. The proof is everywhere from how our team performed in close games down the stretch to how abysmal any attempted set-play at the end of games turned out. It was very clearly not a high priority and it reared its head in actual games. To make matters worse, we weren't good enough at what he DOES prioritize to overcome that. At that point, what good is the system? Why even choose to have that weakness?


Stonehog
Iona Fan
Platinum Rewards Club
Member since Aug 2011
28466 posts

re: What Sort of System Would You Like to See?
quote:

No more of that. Set up on your side of the court and make them score on you. Whether it's man to man or any variation of the zone, find what works for the roster and just play solid defense. There are no rules that say you can't trap or jump passing lanes if you don't press the entirety of the court.


A defense like that could have worked wonders for Gafford, instead we had him running the floor and flaring out to guard the perimeter. Then he would get gassed in about 4 minutes.


pioneerbasketball
Arkansas Fan
Team Bunchie
Member since Oct 2005
88252 posts

re: What Sort of System Would You Like to See?
Motion

1-4

Zone Offense


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rockiee
Houston Astros Fan
Sugar Land, TX
Member since Jan 2015
19911 posts

re: What Sort of System Would You Like to See?
Recruiting is my number one concern with the next coach so I'll take whatever style comes with that. Having said that, I would prefer a coach that prioritizes a good half court defense. Statistically, teams with a great defense with advance further in the tournament than teams with a great offense. Obviously you want a good balance though.


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DaleDenton
Baylor Fan
Member since Jun 2010
40001 posts

re: What Sort of System Would You Like to See?
quote:


The NBA also has players on rosters for a much longer period of time and obviously they are a higher calibur. Our best player doesn't have anywhere near the experience to be counted on to run an offense with a team. Not really apples to apples there.


The set plays is what was being referenced in the articles you referenced.

Set plays are a fairly new thing in basketball as far as offenses being structured entirely around them to manufacturer points.

quote:

I also understand that the majority of basketball is not run on set plays, the point is the complete lack of them under Mike. I don't care what philosophy you run, there are situations in basketball where you need to be able to manufacture offense from a stop. The proof is everywhere from how our team performed in close games down the stretch to how abysmal any attempted set-play at the end of games turned out. It was very clearly not a high priority and it reared its head in actual games.


He also drew up some sets that worked and won games over his tenure here.

quote:

To make matters worse, we weren't good enough at what he DOES prioritize to overcome that. At that point, what good is the system? Why even choose to have that weakness?


Every system has weaknesses. It isn't always the system at fault, sometimes it is a simple as players making the wrong decisions or failing to execute as they should.


Drewbie
Arkansas Fan
tFlagship
Member since Jun 2012
38494 posts

re: What Sort of System Would You Like to See?
quote:

Every system has weaknesses. It isn't always the system at fault, sometimes it is a simple as players making the wrong decisions or failing to execute as they should.
The weaknesses are expanded on even more-so when you force a system onto a roster that can't execute it. At some point you have to realize what you have and work to maximize the effectiveness of your pieces.


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DaleDenton
Baylor Fan
Member since Jun 2010
40001 posts

re: What Sort of System Would You Like to See?
quote:


A defense like that could have worked wonders for Gafford, instead we had him running the floor and flaring out to guard the perimeter. Then he would get gassed in about 4 minutes.


In the 1-3-1 Gafford's responsibility would be from block to block with help in the corner when needed.

The wings run their asses off from wing to corner, the center primarily is block to block, however his responsibility to would be to get to the corner in a quick reversal from wing to wing to corner.

The point should rotate to the wings when the wing rotates to the corner, the middle man in the three is responsible for helping out the 5 in the paint. Its is simple as using two men in the paint quick reversals to draw the five out of the paint, leave the middle alone in the paint with help from the guards.

A 2-3 or 1-1-3 zone you bust by threes or getting the ball near the free throw line in the middle. The 1-3-1 is probably the best zone in regards to defending the three but quick ball reversal can open up the paint or lead to the bigs being out of position and matched up guarding a guard towards the perimeter. The short corner is a vulnerable spot as well.

Zones have become more effective because players aren't taught or know how to play against the zone, sure they know coaches will abandon it if they make a bunch of 3s, but when was the last time you saw a screen set properly against a zone to open up a three or mid range jumper?


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