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re: Trevor Lawrence makes Clemson a Playoff shoe in
Posted on 9/28/18 at 5:46 pm to JustGetItRight
Posted on 9/28/18 at 5:46 pm to JustGetItRight
Clemson would likely make the play-offs with Bryant or Lawrence,their schedule is that easy. It's only about who is most likely to help them win the championship. Hence the choice of Lawrence.
Note: I am no grammar Nazi but the term is "shoo in" and not "shoe in ". If one poster does it it's no big deal but when almost everyone does it then it's starts to grate.
Note: I am no grammar Nazi but the term is "shoo in" and not "shoe in ". If one poster does it it's no big deal but when almost everyone does it then it's starts to grate.
2
Posted on 9/28/18 at 6:20 pm to My2Bits
Actually, I am very appreciative of this. I never even considered “shoo in”. It helps to understand the epistemology of a phrase. In this case, my lack of curiosity led to a very public discomfiture.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Posted on 9/28/18 at 6:41 pm to RiverCityTider
You’re the guy from Decatur right? Yeah, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Posted on 9/28/18 at 6:50 pm to RiverCityTider
Memories die hard. For Dabo Swinney, forgetting the performance of Kelly Bryant against a not Tua Tagovailoa led Alabama team in the Playoffs isn’t possible.
Why did Dabo Swinney willingly risk losing Kelly Bryant to transfer? Answers are best served by some context. Choosing true freshman, Trevor Lawrence over Bryant has several reasons, including one big one, Tua Tagovailoa.
First, the ACC isn’t great this year. Powerhouses like Florida State, Louisville, Miami, and Virginia Tech have already suffered embarrassing losses. For Clemson, it is more likely they will stumble, or dare say experience a “clemsoning” against a lesser prominent opponent like they did last year against Syracuse than suffer a loss against any of the previously mentioned.
The only ranked opponent on their remaining schedule is Duke who currently is ranked No. 22. ESPN’s football power index has Clemson favored heavily in every game for the remainder of the season. The lowest chance of winning Clemson has currently, is at Boston College which sits at 81.8 percent. So, it would be an understatement to say that regardless if Kelly Bryant or Trevor Lawrence was starting, neither would struggle to win out.
However, this is where it gets interesting. If both have the ability to win every game on the remaining schedule, why make the change now? Believing it is because of how well Lawrence played thus far against weaker competition is implausible. What is more likely is the scenario that follows.
Last year Clemson snapped the U’s chain in the ACC Championship 38-3. Kelly Bryant didn’t even play in the fourth quarter. The next game Clemson did not score a touchdown and was decisively handled by Alabama 24-6. The frustration with his quarterback was clear on Dabo’s face throughout the game. The noise began at that moment for their top recruit in Lawrence to take over the reigns.
Fast forward to this season. Clemson sticks with Kelly Bryant as the starter. Dabo does split time between Bryant and Lawrence in games, but what is interesting is that in the toughest game yet for Clemson at Texas A&M, Dabo pumps the brakes on Lawrence. Lawrence comes in and his first pass is a 64-yard touchdown pass. But Lawrence’s next two drives are both punts (five plays for 19 yards and three plays for six yards). Lawrence sees the field only one time in the second half which resulted in three plays for eight yards ultimately leading to a punt. Kelly Bryant re-enters the game and makes consecutive touchdown drives that ultimately was the difference in Clemson escaping with a win. From the looks, it appeared that when Clemson needed to rely on a QB for the win, they turned to Kelly Bryant.
So what changed? The Texas A&M team that Clemson only beat by two points was absolutely handled by Alabama 45-23 last week. All at the hands of the QB who had no part in the drumming of the nearly identical Clemson team the year prior in the Sugar Bowl.
In Dabo’s mind, the remaining schedule during the regular season isn’t what worries him. For Dabo, I believe he has to think who gives me the best shot to compete against Tua Tagovailoa. Who gives Clemson the best shot to put up points to compete against Alabama? Trevor Lawrence.
Could Dabo Swinney have played a Nick Saban and waited until Kelly Bryant stumbled against the Tide to throw Trevor Lawrence in the fire? Possibly, however, I think Dabo instead of waiting till the second half of a championship to make a change; Dabo decided Trevor Lawrence must get ready now. He needs Lawrence to be tested in each and every game and get every meaningful snap he can get. Why? Because the talent in the ACC isn’t there this year and the first chance that Lawrence may have to face a formidable team is in the playoffs. Lawrence struggled after his first pass against Texas A&M. Dabo cannot risk having him struggle again in a playoff/national championship game where the stakes are much higher.
Tua Tagovailoa has made the Alabama Crimson Tide into a very different opponent from years past. The ability to put up record amounts of points and at the same time possess one of the nation’s best defenses is staggering to comprehend. For Dabo, he has seen Alabama three consecutive times before. He understands that if he sees Alabama for a fourth straight time, he must possess a QB that is ready to challenge the scoring ability of Tua Tagovailoa.
Why did Dabo Swinney willingly risk losing Kelly Bryant to transfer? Answers are best served by some context. Choosing true freshman, Trevor Lawrence over Bryant has several reasons, including one big one, Tua Tagovailoa.
First, the ACC isn’t great this year. Powerhouses like Florida State, Louisville, Miami, and Virginia Tech have already suffered embarrassing losses. For Clemson, it is more likely they will stumble, or dare say experience a “clemsoning” against a lesser prominent opponent like they did last year against Syracuse than suffer a loss against any of the previously mentioned.
The only ranked opponent on their remaining schedule is Duke who currently is ranked No. 22. ESPN’s football power index has Clemson favored heavily in every game for the remainder of the season. The lowest chance of winning Clemson has currently, is at Boston College which sits at 81.8 percent. So, it would be an understatement to say that regardless if Kelly Bryant or Trevor Lawrence was starting, neither would struggle to win out.
However, this is where it gets interesting. If both have the ability to win every game on the remaining schedule, why make the change now? Believing it is because of how well Lawrence played thus far against weaker competition is implausible. What is more likely is the scenario that follows.
Last year Clemson snapped the U’s chain in the ACC Championship 38-3. Kelly Bryant didn’t even play in the fourth quarter. The next game Clemson did not score a touchdown and was decisively handled by Alabama 24-6. The frustration with his quarterback was clear on Dabo’s face throughout the game. The noise began at that moment for their top recruit in Lawrence to take over the reigns.
Fast forward to this season. Clemson sticks with Kelly Bryant as the starter. Dabo does split time between Bryant and Lawrence in games, but what is interesting is that in the toughest game yet for Clemson at Texas A&M, Dabo pumps the brakes on Lawrence. Lawrence comes in and his first pass is a 64-yard touchdown pass. But Lawrence’s next two drives are both punts (five plays for 19 yards and three plays for six yards). Lawrence sees the field only one time in the second half which resulted in three plays for eight yards ultimately leading to a punt. Kelly Bryant re-enters the game and makes consecutive touchdown drives that ultimately was the difference in Clemson escaping with a win. From the looks, it appeared that when Clemson needed to rely on a QB for the win, they turned to Kelly Bryant.
So what changed? The Texas A&M team that Clemson only beat by two points was absolutely handled by Alabama 45-23 last week. All at the hands of the QB who had no part in the drumming of the nearly identical Clemson team the year prior in the Sugar Bowl.
In Dabo’s mind, the remaining schedule during the regular season isn’t what worries him. For Dabo, I believe he has to think who gives me the best shot to compete against Tua Tagovailoa. Who gives Clemson the best shot to put up points to compete against Alabama? Trevor Lawrence.
Could Dabo Swinney have played a Nick Saban and waited until Kelly Bryant stumbled against the Tide to throw Trevor Lawrence in the fire? Possibly, however, I think Dabo instead of waiting till the second half of a championship to make a change; Dabo decided Trevor Lawrence must get ready now. He needs Lawrence to be tested in each and every game and get every meaningful snap he can get. Why? Because the talent in the ACC isn’t there this year and the first chance that Lawrence may have to face a formidable team is in the playoffs. Lawrence struggled after his first pass against Texas A&M. Dabo cannot risk having him struggle again in a playoff/national championship game where the stakes are much higher.
Tua Tagovailoa has made the Alabama Crimson Tide into a very different opponent from years past. The ability to put up record amounts of points and at the same time possess one of the nation’s best defenses is staggering to comprehend. For Dabo, he has seen Alabama three consecutive times before. He understands that if he sees Alabama for a fourth straight time, he must possess a QB that is ready to challenge the scoring ability of Tua Tagovailoa.
Posted on 9/28/18 at 7:00 pm to Commander Data
Spot on Data.
I have often felt a bit of sympathy for the Tagovailoa family. What should have been a joyful period has been, at times, somewhat disheartening for them I suspect.
At times, Coach has seemed reticent to complement Tua. He seems so intune with Jalen’s feelings that perhaps he forgot Tua’s? Or maybe he just understood what beautiful people the Tagovailoas are, and that they too consiedered Jalen to be a member of the family.... who was hurting.
Even the players saw fit to always reference Jalen when paying Tua a complement.
In some sense, it’s a beautiful thing; this sensitivity and concern for a teammate. And while we Tuaites and Hurtsites thrashed about in anger advocating “our man”, some really heartwarming things were happening in Tuscaloosa.
So I can’t fault Coach for how he gently and compassionately guided us all through this transition. And I suspect Tua and family approve as well,
There is more to Coach Saban than people give him credit for. And I think he bent over backwards for the veteran simply because he knew it would hurt him far more than it would hurrt the freshman to wait a bit.
Some will say there were other factors.... x’s and o’s Factors... But I’m of the opinion that coach simply acted out of love and loyalty. He would just as soon have jilted Ms Terry for the shapeliest crimsonette as he would to jilt Jalen one second sooner than he had to. Tus was clearly better long before he started the second half of the title game.
But you know what? Sometimes winning really isn’t everything.
This is how I have wrapped my mind around what happened last year. I attribute last year to love and loyalty, and not a mistaken strategy. And love is never a mistake my good friend. Never. Even when it costs you the Auburn game.
I have often felt a bit of sympathy for the Tagovailoa family. What should have been a joyful period has been, at times, somewhat disheartening for them I suspect.
At times, Coach has seemed reticent to complement Tua. He seems so intune with Jalen’s feelings that perhaps he forgot Tua’s? Or maybe he just understood what beautiful people the Tagovailoas are, and that they too consiedered Jalen to be a member of the family.... who was hurting.
Even the players saw fit to always reference Jalen when paying Tua a complement.
In some sense, it’s a beautiful thing; this sensitivity and concern for a teammate. And while we Tuaites and Hurtsites thrashed about in anger advocating “our man”, some really heartwarming things were happening in Tuscaloosa.
So I can’t fault Coach for how he gently and compassionately guided us all through this transition. And I suspect Tua and family approve as well,
There is more to Coach Saban than people give him credit for. And I think he bent over backwards for the veteran simply because he knew it would hurt him far more than it would hurrt the freshman to wait a bit.
Some will say there were other factors.... x’s and o’s Factors... But I’m of the opinion that coach simply acted out of love and loyalty. He would just as soon have jilted Ms Terry for the shapeliest crimsonette as he would to jilt Jalen one second sooner than he had to. Tus was clearly better long before he started the second half of the title game.
But you know what? Sometimes winning really isn’t everything.
This is how I have wrapped my mind around what happened last year. I attribute last year to love and loyalty, and not a mistaken strategy. And love is never a mistake my good friend. Never. Even when it costs you the Auburn game.
This post was edited on 9/28/18 at 7:34 pm
Posted on 9/28/18 at 7:05 pm to John Milner
Bingo. It’s all he could do. We would murder a Kelly Bryant led Clemson this year.
Posted on 9/28/18 at 7:17 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
Dabo made the move so that he could develop over the rest of the year. He knew he had no chance with the other guy. He had even less of a chance than we would with Jalen.
Trevor has great potential. Dabo is thinking playoffs.
I agree with this post, but Lawrence is far from ready.
He's a one read QB and doesn't see the defense well at this present time. He can throw a ball, but if he were to play a team like Alabama at the moment he'd get confused, smacked around, and probably picked 2 or 3 times. I'd be ugly. That may change after a couple of months of taking starting reps, but he has a long, long way to go to play winning football against the better defenses he may face.
Also, I've watched most their games and he doesn't seem to like getting hit very much. He won't give Clemson the running presence Bryant had.
If I'm Dabo and I have a history of losing a game I'm not supposed to, playing this kid would worry me all the more. If he struggles in the wrong game it may spell trouble.
I'm just not overly impressed with Clemson as a whole. I didn't think they were great last season, and not this season either. They may rise to another level with Lawrence, I don't know, but BAMA would steamroll them either way imo.
As hyped as their front four are, and they have some talented individuals, they don't wreak the havoc I would expect from a unit so heralded, and the rest of their defense isn't all that impressive. I'd take many of the defensive lines BAMA has has recently in a heartbeat over theirs, and also several from around the SEC that didn't have nearly the hype.
I believe Clemson has a lot of work to do.
Posted on 9/28/18 at 7:18 pm to LukeSidewalker
If not from Decatur, I’m from Jacksonville. And I appreciate your feedback. But could you be a bit more specific?
Posted on 9/28/18 at 7:27 pm to Nitro Express
Nice take. I would like your opinion on the Ohio State qb.
Posted on 9/28/18 at 8:19 pm to My2Bits
quote:
Note: I am no grammar Nazi but the term is "shoo in" and not "shoe in ".
Thank you. I can't believe we went two full pages before anybody spelled shoo in correctly. It was starting to get painful.
This post was edited on 9/28/18 at 8:22 pm
Posted on 9/28/18 at 8:21 pm to RiverCityTider
Imo it’s
Bama
Clemson
OSU
ND or Okie
With that said we would woodshed ND yo the tune of 2012 or worse. I like our chances against any of them.
Bama
Clemson
OSU
ND or Okie
With that said we would woodshed ND yo the tune of 2012 or worse. I like our chances against any of them.
Posted on 9/28/18 at 8:25 pm to RiverCityTider
I've only seen limited action from Haskins and that was against Oregon State. From what I can tell, he's a pocket guy that isn't going to give you much on the ground, but he can really throw the ball with accuracy (but so can Lawrence). He's got arm talent. He was hitting his receivers in perfect stride against Oregon State, but the pocket was always clean and his receivers were open much of the time and he was prettt much always able to throw to his first read.
So, I don't know much is what I'm trying to say. The kid is a talented thrower of the football, no doubt, but there's so much more to this game for a QB than raring back and letting it go. Lot's of guys can do that (sling it), but not a lot of guys can read and make throws when it counts under duress. I'll know much more about Haskins after this weekend because I intend on watching every moment of the OSU vs PSU game. I will be a big PSU fan Saturday night, as OSU is on my list of teams I love to pull against. However, I can give a player like Haskins his due, and even his team if they are good, but I really dislike Ohio State.
I'll say this, in spite of the ridiculously horrible competition in the Oregon State game, it was easy to see that OSU has an awful lot of talent. They aren't lacking players, that is for sure.
Losing Bosa was big.
I've learned not to waste much time bothering with OSU until they play someone worth while in their conference, much like this game coming up tomorrow. I never get much of a feel for their team otherwise. I wanted to sneak a peek against TCU but I wasn't able to follow the game.
Roll Tide.
So, I don't know much is what I'm trying to say. The kid is a talented thrower of the football, no doubt, but there's so much more to this game for a QB than raring back and letting it go. Lot's of guys can do that (sling it), but not a lot of guys can read and make throws when it counts under duress. I'll know much more about Haskins after this weekend because I intend on watching every moment of the OSU vs PSU game. I will be a big PSU fan Saturday night, as OSU is on my list of teams I love to pull against. However, I can give a player like Haskins his due, and even his team if they are good, but I really dislike Ohio State.
I'll say this, in spite of the ridiculously horrible competition in the Oregon State game, it was easy to see that OSU has an awful lot of talent. They aren't lacking players, that is for sure.
Losing Bosa was big.
I've learned not to waste much time bothering with OSU until they play someone worth while in their conference, much like this game coming up tomorrow. I never get much of a feel for their team otherwise. I wanted to sneak a peek against TCU but I wasn't able to follow the game.
Roll Tide.
Posted on 9/28/18 at 8:34 pm to Nitro Express
Glad we got some Hurts vs. Tua 2017 discussion in here - I was getting withdrawals.
Posted on 9/28/18 at 8:38 pm to Evolved Simian
quote:
quote:Note: I am no grammar Nazi but the term is "shoo in" and not "shoe in ". Thank you. I can't believe we went two full pages before anybody spelled shoo in correctly. It was starting to get painful.
I thought it looked strange but just assumed somebody would have corrected it
Posted on 9/28/18 at 8:53 pm to Nitro Express
I’m interested in Haskins for two reason. First, Buckeyes seem to think he’s better than Tua (I seriously doubt this). Secondly, I suspect they may be a two or three seed and a team we see very late.
Posted on 9/28/18 at 9:17 pm to RiverCityTider
No, he's not better than Tua.
I believe OSU will make it this year with Haskins. His ability to throw should get them through the B1G imo with all their talent. At minimum he makes them tougher to defend because he has the ability to stretch the field. He's a much better passer than what they've had recently, without a doubt, but he's no Tua.
1) BAMA
2) OSU
3) UGA
4) Clemson / OU
Notre Dame may make it because they are Notre Dame and have a meh schedule, but they don't belong with the other five.
I know having OSU ranked #2 without having seen them play a good opponent is questionable, but I believe Haskins is a good player and they are loaded. I also believe they may be the only team to give us a ball game, but we'll all know a lot more tomorrow night. BAMA is just good.
I believe UGA, Clemson, and OU aren't talented or complete enough to beat BAMA. OSU may also prove to be in that class as well, but I suspect they are a step above the other three.
Jmo.
I believe OSU will make it this year with Haskins. His ability to throw should get them through the B1G imo with all their talent. At minimum he makes them tougher to defend because he has the ability to stretch the field. He's a much better passer than what they've had recently, without a doubt, but he's no Tua.
1) BAMA
2) OSU
3) UGA
4) Clemson / OU
Notre Dame may make it because they are Notre Dame and have a meh schedule, but they don't belong with the other five.
I know having OSU ranked #2 without having seen them play a good opponent is questionable, but I believe Haskins is a good player and they are loaded. I also believe they may be the only team to give us a ball game, but we'll all know a lot more tomorrow night. BAMA is just good.
I believe UGA, Clemson, and OU aren't talented or complete enough to beat BAMA. OSU may also prove to be in that class as well, but I suspect they are a step above the other three.
Jmo.
Posted on 9/28/18 at 9:40 pm to Nitro Express
quote:
I've learned not to waste much time bothering with OSU until they play someone worth while in their conference, much like this game coming up tomorrow. I never get much of a feel for their team otherwise. I wanted to sneak a peek against TCU but I wasn't able to follow the game.
TCU was giving OSU a tough time until they shot themselves in the foot a few times.
Posted on 9/28/18 at 10:01 pm to TidalSurge1
That's good news. I hope OSU loses every game they play.
Posted on 9/28/18 at 11:01 pm to Nitro Express
If Clemson wins out, I see them as the three seed. Assuming OU and ND stumbles, that would make Georgia a 4. That would mean back to back games against Ga, which I do not like the thought of.
I really want a Bama Ohio State final. And I want to shut their mouths forever. That would be a hyped championship game if there ever was one.
Ideally ND wins out. Oklahoma blow it. We eliminate Ga. Ohio State wins out. We get ND in the semis. Easy win. Ohio State beats Clemson. And then the beat down.
They get to see Tua first had. Let’s see if Haskins can play with Tua.
I really want a Bama Ohio State final. And I want to shut their mouths forever. That would be a hyped championship game if there ever was one.
Ideally ND wins out. Oklahoma blow it. We eliminate Ga. Ohio State wins out. We get ND in the semis. Easy win. Ohio State beats Clemson. And then the beat down.
They get to see Tua first had. Let’s see if Haskins can play with Tua.
Posted on 9/28/18 at 11:04 pm to RiverCityTider
Alabama-Washington rematch in Arlington. I’ll be there.
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