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re: How much do we expect the defense to improve...
Posted on 9/30/19 at 6:43 pm to tider04
Posted on 9/30/19 at 6:43 pm to tider04
quote:
This defense is young and we can all hope they improve. They very well may. I think any improvement we see will be fairly minimal because of the youth and inexperience. I think one question Saban needs to ask himself is; where did we go so wrong that we ended up needing to play so many true freshman? Where are the juniors and sophomores who should be talented AND coached up by now? Is it eval failures? Is it developmental failures? Why aren’t guys like Benton, Ben Davis, Parks, Barmore and Wynn ready to play? Did we not evaluate their talent well or have we not developed them well? No way with our recruiting we should be playing this many new guys unless there have been some serious failures along the way.
Well one reason is that Alabama has lost numerous early entries to the NFL. Another is that the number of injuries to the LB group has been incredible. No one hits them all, including Saban, but Alabama evaluates and develops better than anyone in the country. Most of the relatively (if you hit 50% you're above average) few misses were considered "can't miss" by everyone. Some of those you mentioned are still young. Not everyone is ready to contribute by their soph year. But it has mainly been the NFL and injuries.
quote:
it sure would help if this defense can just get to a mediocre level to help
The D is already better than "mediocre". You should be grateful for what they typically are rather than critical when they aren't at the highest levels.
Frankly, much of the statistical damage has been after the game has been decided. I.e., they have played much better when the game was "on the line". That's why Bama is so much higher measured by advanced metrics (SP).
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Posted on 9/30/19 at 8:34 pm to tattoo
quote:
Well one reason is that Alabama has lost numerous early entries to the NFL. Another is that the number of injuries to the LB group has been incredible. No one hits them all, including Saban, but Alabama evaluates and develops better than anyone in the country. Most of the relatively (if you hit 50% you're above average) few misses were considered "can't miss" by everyone. Some of those you mentioned are still young. Not everyone is ready to contribute by their soph year. But it has mainly been the NFL and injuries.
We are all well aware of NFL draftees and injuries. These are not new developments in 2019, Saban has dealt with this to one degree or another for 13 years now at Bama. The injuries suck, but that's why you recruit at an elite level--to build depth to withstand the rigors of a season. It's not like we've never dealt with early draftees or injuries.
quote:
The D is already better than "mediocre". You should be grateful for what they typically are rather than critical when they aren't at the highest levels.
Could not disagree more. Our total defense currently ranks #38 in the nation and we haven't even played a ranked team yet. We've played nobodies. This is statistically the worst Saban defense in 13 years. I'm sorry that is not better than mediocre and frankly, when you sign the #1 recruiting class almost every year--there's no excuse for not having at least a top 15 defense--even in a down year.
This post was edited on 9/30/19 at 8:45 pm
Posted on 10/1/19 at 1:23 am to tider04
You could not be more wrong. Clueless fans like you cause real mischief in a fan base. You expect what is sometimes impossible. You are showing disrespect to the greatest college coach of all time. Only a fool would do that. But hey, you know best, more than all of the experts, more than CNS. You are probably one of the clowns who thinks he contributes to Bama's success because he "won't put up with no mess, this is Bama".
Posted on 10/1/19 at 7:05 am to tattoo
Watching Bama trying to put the pieces together so far has led me to believe we actually look better in our Dime package than our Nickel. Some folks have brought up what's going to happen when we play teams like Georgia? Frankly, I wish they were all pro-set teams. Not worried in the least. Just like in the old days when LSU was next up. Bring that pro-set stuff and put it in front of Bama and we eat. Even with all our freshmen, nobody does the 3-4 base better than Bama. We understand it and no one here will be complaining about our youth.
We may still get a break with LSU coming to town and bringing their 10-personnel offense with them. With their 4 WR sets, we can get into some Dime packages. We can take one of our ILBers out of the game and force us to drop an extra safety or DB into the box. That scheme seems to be at least something we have had some success with this season.
In the Nickel, all hell has been breaking out for the last 2 seasons now. And seems to continue to be our Achilles Heel going forward. Unfortunately, that's probably our base these days just because we are in it more often than not.
We may still get a break with LSU coming to town and bringing their 10-personnel offense with them. With their 4 WR sets, we can get into some Dime packages. We can take one of our ILBers out of the game and force us to drop an extra safety or DB into the box. That scheme seems to be at least something we have had some success with this season.
In the Nickel, all hell has been breaking out for the last 2 seasons now. And seems to continue to be our Achilles Heel going forward. Unfortunately, that's probably our base these days just because we are in it more often than not.
Posted on 10/1/19 at 7:29 am to tattoo
quote:
You could not be more wrong. Clueless fans like you cause real mischief in a fan base. You expect what is sometimes impossible. You are showing disrespect to the greatest college coach of all time. Only a fool would do that. But hey, you know best, more than all of the experts, more than CNS. You are probably one of the clowns who thinks he contributes to Bama's success because he "won't put up with no mess, this is Bama".
Everything you just typed is hot garbage. I presented facts and stats and your only response was a personal insult and a straw man. Pathetic. Never did I even insinuate that I know more than coach Saban. Some of you sunshine and rainbow fanboys who think Saban is a divine being above honest critique need to get a grip. Saban is not perfect and I'm guessing he'd be the first one to tell you that. You don't end up with 5 true freshmen starting on defense and barely ranked in the top 40 even after playing ZERO ranked teams without some missteps along the way that go beyond the normal NFL early entrants and a couple of injuries. I'll let you get back to your fairytale world now, but I'll keep discussing both the positives and negatives of our team throughout the season on this board without apology.
This post was edited on 10/1/19 at 7:32 am
Posted on 10/1/19 at 8:34 am to tider04
Saban didn’t clean house after last season just because of the game against Clemson. I think he looked around and saw a bunch of coaches chasing kids based on their Rivals profiles and star rating versus how they fit at Bama. That’s how you end up with #1 classes that don’t pan out. Especially with that stupid transfer portal now. So between injuries and players not fitting the Saban mold, you are seeing a lack of depth at Bama for the first time in a long time. Saban got the band back together to restore order.
Posted on 10/1/19 at 11:11 am to tider04
quote:
You don't end up with 5 true freshmen starting on defense and barely ranked in the top 40 even after playing ZERO ranked teams without some missteps along the way that go beyond the normal NFL early entrants and a couple of injuries.
I mean... yes, you do. Most of the strife comes from MLB.
Mack leaves early amid some slight controversy, Moses and McMillon end up with season ending injuries at the same position, and now we have our 4th and 5th options as our starting pair.
Two of the Lee/Harris/Kaho trio WOULD be the 3rd team unit this year. Not 2nd... 3rd. And instead they are STARTING.
That's what happens when you unexpectedly lose your Top 3 options between signing day and the season opener.
This post was edited on 10/1/19 at 11:13 am
Posted on 10/1/19 at 12:40 pm to Eli Goldfinger
I expect some improvement. When anywhere from 5 to 7 of your starting 11 are true freshmen, you will have mistakes. The thing is to get them reps, reps, and more reps.The more these kids see, the more it will become instinct instead of slowly reading so as to not have a mistake.
Posted on 10/1/19 at 1:00 pm to DLev45
Everyone with a brain knew Mac Wilson was going pro. Kid was about as immature as they come. Plus he was a 5 star kid out of HS and it’s always just best to assume you only get those guys for 3 years. I’ll grant you the two injuries, but we’ve often had injuries at LB. SDH, Jennings, Hightower, Lewis, the list goes on. We’ve always had the depth to cover early draft guys and injuries. This year is different and none of what you said explains the difference.
Posted on 10/1/19 at 5:01 pm to tider04
You misjudge what I say and also make my point.
My point is that CNS, Coach Bryant and everyone else make many mistakes but to think that you know more which is your constant implication is ludicrous. Also, as an Alabama fan you should be more appreciative, respectful and understanding of what he and his staff and players have done and are doing. To imply the he and his coaches are not doing their job because the D is not playing great is shortsighted.
Btw, the D is much better when it matters than most realize. Bill Connelly's advanced metrics, which ignore garbage time and take into account schedule, have Bama ranked number 8 in the country. E.g., Bama was up 45-10 - the game was over. Won't say the rest didn't matter, but it didn't matter much. Bama has played fairly well while the games have been in doubt.
You should apologize for your shortsighted and harsh criticism of a talented and dedicated staff. Know your place, be a fan, enjoy and support the program, neither you, nor most, have the understanding or knowledge to critique with the attitude with which you do.
Edited to add Bama's advanced metrics D ranking.
My point is that CNS, Coach Bryant and everyone else make many mistakes but to think that you know more which is your constant implication is ludicrous. Also, as an Alabama fan you should be more appreciative, respectful and understanding of what he and his staff and players have done and are doing. To imply the he and his coaches are not doing their job because the D is not playing great is shortsighted.
Btw, the D is much better when it matters than most realize. Bill Connelly's advanced metrics, which ignore garbage time and take into account schedule, have Bama ranked number 8 in the country. E.g., Bama was up 45-10 - the game was over. Won't say the rest didn't matter, but it didn't matter much. Bama has played fairly well while the games have been in doubt.
You should apologize for your shortsighted and harsh criticism of a talented and dedicated staff. Know your place, be a fan, enjoy and support the program, neither you, nor most, have the understanding or knowledge to critique with the attitude with which you do.
Edited to add Bama's advanced metrics D ranking.
This post was edited on 10/1/19 at 6:04 pm
Posted on 10/1/19 at 5:34 pm to CrimsonBoz
quote:
there are about 7 teams who could all beat each other depending on the variables in a game. We are be
True but we've got to play around 5 of them to win the natty.
Posted on 10/1/19 at 6:32 pm to Tw1st3d
quote:
Issues on D are layered and multiple.
The DL...Dale/Eboigbe/Barmore - All have good tools and good power but all 3 have an experience issue. When they make "big plays" they have often cheated (guessed) to blow past the guy attempting to block them. If your assignment is 2-gap and you choose one over the other it creates a crease in the front both side-to-side and in depth with uneven penetration. Wider of depth spacing causes one of the other players to have to reach in an effort to cover more space.
Our front requires assignment spacing to stuff the run. Assignment spacing is learned and is not pure athleticism. Barmore has not played as much as his talent suggests he should because the coaches do not trust him to handle his assignment. Dale and Eboigbe have the same issue but it is not as dramatic.
The LB issues...
Lee is a run stuffer. He is not a sideline-to-sideline guy. He is still thinking too much and the only cure for that is experience. Counting on him to cover mistakes by other guys is foolish. He is still attempting to master his assignments. If a guy in front of him guesses at a gap rather than playing 2-gap, Lee cannot trust his cues and is also attempting to fill an additional gap that is not his to fill. All of that adds to his inability to play fast without thinking. Some is his fault but at least as much is the fault of the guys in front of him.
Harris is the Will (sideline-to-sideline guy). He is still learning to scrape. If the Mike is slowed by thinking he changes the scrape path the Will has to take. If the DL in front of him guesses and does not play 2-gap a big OL guy has a clean shot at a young LB that is thinking rather than just reacting. Even if he beats the OL in his face or scrapes a little deeper than he should have to do, he is a step or two late and tries to use speed to make up the distance. He is now a little out of control &/or on a bad angle to where he should be.
Lee and Harris need to master their basic tasks before they can have spying a QB added to their load. The only way we can spy right now is with #15 or #5. Carter is not mentally into his game like he was last year - not sure if he is frustrated by being passed by younger guys or what is up but he needs a neck-up check-up by the coaches. #15 is running the backend, add spying to that and his Defense-QB role will take a hit.
The good news, We have a week off for the coaches to shore up some of the assignment issues and the young players get some extra coached film time to correct errors. Then we get 3 weeks to see what they learned and another week off to expand the correction. If the 1st week off goes well, the coaches can add more of the defensive system back in during the 2nd week off.
Should we make it that far, after the SEC Championship game, the coaches get another mini-camp to get the D package more fully installed with players that by then should have enough experience to take it on.
Thanks so much.
(Just wanted to repost to the forum.)
Posted on 10/1/19 at 6:46 pm to Tw1st3d
quote:
One additional point for those on the "DC/LB coach sucks" train. Golding has managed to get two true freshmen to play at a very good level. A level above what you should expect with their lack of experience and the assignment requirements of the Saban defense system. There were two guys most of us viewed as "better" than the ones we got. One is at Tennessee and the other is at Georgia. Based on the impact those other two players have had this year compared to the impact the two we got have had...I like the two we got. They are both playing at a high level mentally.
The level they are playing at is a really good sign for them going forward but also says Golding has done a fantastic job of getting them ready to play week in and week out.
In other words...STFU about Golding. He is helping 6 freshmen grow up on the fly in our complex defensive system. That is amazing work!
Thanks again.
Remember that Bama's D is #8 nationally according to Bill Connelly's advanced metrics (removes garbage time and takes into account the opponent.)
What would be the perception of Bama's D if garbage scores were removed:
42-3
52-7
47-16
62-3
59-17
9.2 PPG, including 12 PPG vs P5. Two of the 3 TDs removed were TD passes over 10 yards with 11 and 5 secs left.
Also, we will probably see that Duke, USCe and OM are better than most realize. Not great or even good but at least decent.
Bama has issues to address but they have not performed like some of the hand-wringers suggest. The D staff has done well under very difficult roster circumstances.
This post was edited on 10/1/19 at 6:49 pm
Posted on 10/1/19 at 7:18 pm to tider04
quote:
Could not disagree more. Our total defense currently ranks #38 in the nation and we haven't even played a ranked team yet. We've played nobodies. This is statistically the worst Saban defense in 13 years. I'm sorry that is not better than mediocre and frankly, when you sign the #1 recruiting class almost every year--there's no excuse for not having at least a top 15 defense--even in a down year.
We have a top10 defense this year. Stop letting confirmation bias cause you to put too much into garbage time stats.
It was 45-10 vs Ole Miss when we started putting people in for experience. If you aren't able to see that Saban rightfully couldn't give a rats arse about "#38" in some stat, other than to motivate with it, then I don't know what to tell you. He is more worried about winning games, getting kids experience and the team ready for play later in the seasons when depth will be much more important.
It's week5 with a young defense, not the week before the playoffs. They make mistakes and guess what? They learn from it, correct them and get better. That's another way of saying - they get experience.
Still even in it's current state, it's a top10 defense. And if the injuries stop, it's only going to get better.
This post was edited on 10/1/19 at 7:19 pm
Posted on 10/1/19 at 7:25 pm to 3down10
quote:
It was 45-10 vs Ole Miss when we started putting people in for experience.
Not really. Almost all our starters were still in there when Ole Miss scored 24.
Posted on 10/1/19 at 7:51 pm to 1BamaRTR
Exactly. Our starting defense gave up 24 points and around 400 yards to an offense led by a true freshman QB making his first start who sucks at passing. They literally could only run the ball. And we still couldn’t stop it. Pretending that isn’t concerning is the epitome of being naive.
This post was edited on 10/1/19 at 7:52 pm
Posted on 10/1/19 at 8:09 pm to phil4bama
quote:
Saban got the band back together to restore order.
let's damn rock!
Posted on 10/1/19 at 8:11 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
Not really. Almost all our starters were still in there when Ole Miss scored 24.
Why not all? Probably because they were putting in people for experience rather than trying to keep the score and yards down.
Posted on 10/1/19 at 8:13 pm to tider04
quote:
Exactly. Our starting defense gave up 24 points and around 400 yards to an offense led by a true freshman QB making his first start who sucks at passing. They literally could only run the ball. And we still couldn’t stop it. Pretending that isn’t concerning is the epitome of being naive.
There are concerns, but it's not "OMG, stats!".
Might as well be arguing with dumbfrick LSU fans right now. "I found this obscure stat, Alabama sucks".
Posted on 10/1/19 at 8:22 pm to 3down10
Total defense is not an obscure stat. It’s commonly used to determine the best defenses each year.
Also our starting D giving up 24/400 to a TF Qb is hardly and obscure fact. Hope the sand you have your head in is comfy. We all hope they improve, and they very well may, but pretending all is well with this defense right now is borderline mental.
Also our starting D giving up 24/400 to a TF Qb is hardly and obscure fact. Hope the sand you have your head in is comfy. We all hope they improve, and they very well may, but pretending all is well with this defense right now is borderline mental.
This post was edited on 10/1/19 at 8:24 pm
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