re: UGA Basketball Season Long Thread (19-15, 10-10) // Season Complete

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yep, forgot Kansas. more than half our losses.

two OT games, one 1-point loss, and an avg margin of defeat of approx 7

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Cool stats bro... What was our record in those games? That's one hell of a lopsided coin.

How many of our wins came against teams that made it past their first game in the tournament? If we're using opponent success in the tournament to bolster our performance...

And wtf are you talking about? Why are you so defensive?

If you want to deny that we had ano usually hard schedule this year, so be it. I just posted some facts that were interesting.

Umm... that would be interesting to see a list of 25 coaches who has done that. I'm calling BS on that.

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NIT chokes.

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You can't choke in the NIT. You can argue people don't care enough, but you're not allowed to choke in a tournament that means so little.


And the stat about the 25 coaches is true. Sucks to see that for sure. I think we let Fox ride out Maten, and if we aren't a tourney team next year, he's gone.

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Umm... that would be interesting to see a list of 25 coaches who has done that. I'm calling BS on that

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Boeheim
Krzyzewski
McKillop (Davidson)
Izzo
Martelli (St. Joe's)
Few (Gonzaga)
McConathy (NW State)
Fisher (SDSU)
James Jones (Yale)
Brey (ND)
Pitino
Bennett (St. Mary's)
Wright (Nova)
Hamilton (FSU)
Davis (Mid Tenn St)
Drew (Baylor)
Self
Roy Williams
Thompson (Georgetown)
Giannini (La Salle)
Matta (OSU)
Rose (BYU)
Painter (Purdue)
Mooney (Richmond)
Cronin (Cincinnati)
Jacobson (N Iowa)
Dunphy (Temple)
Amaker (Harvard)
Beilein (Michigan)
Huggins
Marshall (Wichita)
Miller (Arizona)
Calipari
Bennett (UVA)
Mack (Xavier)

ETA: I counted 35 in that list

It's just power 5 schools included because some coaches have been with non-power 5 programs since 09-10 and haven't won a tourney game.

And with Crean gone it's now 24. Not a great look. Easy to recruit against I'm sure.

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don't think a new coach will fix all of our problems long term. That is the crux of my opinion. The program needs more support to succeed consistently.

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It needs a good coach first and foremost. What specifically is needed beyond that?

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And wtf are you talking about? Why are you so defensive?

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I'm not in any way defensive. I simply am asking you to reflect on the counterpoint to the statistics that you were highlighting. There's the old saying:

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There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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You can use statistics to point out all kind of things...

By the way... "Defensive" would typically look an awful lot like getting upset when someone questions the validity and/or relevance of the facts that you opted to share, and offers a counterpoint.

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If you want to deny that we had ano usually hard schedule this year, so be it. I just posted some facts that were interesting.

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We had a difficult SOS nationally, but it was about middle of the road for our conference up until the conference tournament. I believe it's jumped up to about 4-5th or so in conference now between conference tournament and game against Belmont. We also missed the tournament in what most have considered a very down bubble year. If we had won a few of those difficult games, it would be one thing... but we just didn't. I see you mentioned that you aren't necessarily "pro-Fox", but your added context for that is the same as what others have mentioned... a call for "additional support" for the program.

What does this support look like in your opinion? I legitimately would like to get people's opinions on what they feel is not being done to support basketball beyond not building a new arena... and every time I ask, I get no response. We're paying a competitive rate for our head coach (or at least it has been competitive since he was given the raise to 2M... if we were to bring in anyone other than a mid-major coach, I'd anticipate that number jumping by at least another .5-.75M if not more though. We have a top tier training facility for our basketball team.

Fan support maybe needs some marketing dollars thrown at it, but it's on the coach to put a product on the floor that captures the attention of the fanbase. I would love to see some re-allotment of seating at the games or something, because the older/wealthier crowd of "non-basketball fans" in premium seating areas certainly don't do anything to improve the TV brand.

I just don't see where any significant investment into the team makes sense at this point with Fox as coach... you know what you have. A decent if unexciting coach who coaches a somewhat less than captivating style of basketball play that wins enough, but doesn't win big and doesn't give you a good chance at the tournament. That's a really difficult sell to say "hey donate money so we can keep going down this path". You want to pour gasoline on a fire that is growing... not one that's almost burned out. I would love to see something done in conjunction with the Classic Center (Durden's idea on this board before?). I mean, this was from last year - LINK - but if he's actually considering it, why not figure out a way to partner up to foot the bill and move MBB into the downtown area... improve fan experience as well as a modern venue. Then leave Stegeman for WBB, Gymnastics, and possible conflict days... hell might even be able to market some lesser opponents as "Classic" days at Stegeman, and use it as almost a novelty type thing...

I think our bigger issue lies at the AD level, as I have very little faith in McG's ability to make good hires and/or spend on programs as needed unless his feet are held to the fire by someone... every interview is a series of excuses it seems like for him.

I don't expect Fox to improve this season, but I'm not sure I trust McG to hire anyone better either... that's a shitty place to be.

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it's on the coach to put a product on the floor that captures the attention of the fanbase

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Win. It doesn't matter if a team goes up and down the floor or plays as slow as Dick Bennett's old Wisconsin teams.

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Win. It doesn't matter if a team goes up and down the floor or plays as slow as Dick Bennett's old Wisconsin teams.

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Oh, I agree... winning certainly helps a lot.

FWIW though, while Bennett was able to *win* at UVA fairly quickly (NIT quarters in year 4, Sweet 16 in year 5). Their average fan attendance during that time actually dipped a bit for a few seasons before returning to what it had been before and then eventually surpassing it after the Sweet 16 run.

NCAA isn't totally clear here on what constitutes the year, but going to make an assumption that it's based on the year in which the season ends, rather than starts.
2008: 11,705
2009: 10,219
Fired Leitao hired Bennet
2010: 10,141
2011: 10,156
2012: 10,522
2013: 9,403 (unsure what's up with this value... seems odd given that they went to the quarters of the NIT this season? Maybe poor attendance for the NIT home game(s) or something skewed it a bit...)
2014: 11,684 (goes to the Sweet 16 this year)
2015: 13,656 (pretty indicative that fan attendance is very reactive... "show me first, then I'll show up next season")
2016: 14,111

So yes, it's true that winning can do a lot for your program, for some of the talk that we want increased spending (new arena, facilities, etc) the easiest way to justify that is increased fan engagement, which can be measured best with attendance (and secondarily I guess TV audience). Even a winning product can struggle to put asses in seats with what the average fan would consider a less than pleasing style of play. So while I'm not *personally* opposed to a defensive coach, I do think that if we want rapid change in how the program is perceived, and corresponding investment from our AD, a coach with an offensive/exciting approach would likely have the quickest impact in that regard (assuming all things else equal... level of success for example).