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re: OT - blue lives murder
Posted on 9/22/20 at 9:25 pm to Gtmodawg
Posted on 9/22/20 at 9:25 pm to Gtmodawg
quote:Criminals run off now while knowing that the police are armed. Running by itself won't likely result in the police shooting. Officers shooting at a fleeing suspect is only permissible if the officer has a reasonable belief that the fleeing suspect is a danger to society, meaning that they are suspected (reasonably) of having a deadly weapon or have expressed intent to do harm to others.
Many would simply run off if they did not know they would be shot if they did...knowing that they will be killed if they do they choose to attempt to kill or maim the police to escape.
The bottom line is that criminals should expect to be apprehended for their crimes. If they see a cop, they will likely be afraid of arrest and do what they can to stop that arrest from occurring. They may flee or they may attack the officer. Criminals don't usually abide by an honor code. If they have a gun, they may use it to stop and/or kill the officer to ensure they can get away rather than risking getting outrun or overpowered.
quote:Except America isn't Mexico. An arrest does mean a court date here, not summary execution on the street. When criminals attack cops, it isn't because they expect to be killed right there on the spot. They do it because they don't want to go to jail.
This is exactly why Mexican cartels are so dangerous because in Mexico there ain't no court date...police execute people on site. Drug dealers know this so they do not get arrested...they shoot it out and are willing to visit all sorts of ill shite on the families of cops if they can't kill the cop.
quote:In that scenario, the driver has a warrant out for their arrest. Are you suggesting that such a person should be let go if they have an encounter with the police for a different reason? Seriously? You think the solution to criminals being shot is to not attempt to arrest criminals? You can't be this naive. What if a loved one was raped or murdered and the rapist/murderer was arrested for a routine traffic violation. Would you want them to simply be let go so that their actions won't have any negative consequences?
So heres the scenario you are describing. The cop pulls someone over for a traffic violation. Lets say a blown stop sign. The driver knows he has a warrant. The cop is armed. IN our current world the driver knows the cop is going to run him to see if he is wanted for any serious crimes. The situation is escalated in this rare set of circumstances and the driver knows it and the cop, if he is going to survive, has to treat ALL similar situations in the exact same manner or be surprised when the driver acts on his knowledge of the escalation of the situation....but the crime the cop at the moment is investigating is a traffic violation. His "running" the driver is the source of the escalation....when good old fashioned police work, asking questions, knocking on doors etc. lead to more arrests than running people at traffic violations. Just write the citation for the violation being investigated at this time. Don't run the driver. This can be done WITHOUT the cop being armed and only a true madman would run in this scenario....but that is only if the idea is to make citizens safer. If the idea is to arrest and incarcerate citizens, by all means, run 'em and shoot it with them and have cities burned and property destroyed.
No, the solution is for criminals to stop committing crimes and to comply with the police when arrested. Doing a few years in prison surely must be better than being killed trying to flee or while attacking the officer, right? And if they think it's better to die than to go to jail, why are you arguing against that? They've made their choice.
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Posted on 9/22/20 at 10:39 pm to baconwaffle
quote:That's patently false and utterly absurd. By law, citizens of this country receive due process, regardless of the color of their skin.
You’re right, but you seem to be OK with the fact that we treat literal enemies who want to kill us better than we treat our own black citizens at home. If anything, that should be reversed.
You make it seem like black people are being mowed down in the streets by tyrant cops who get off on taking the law into their own hands. That's simply not true and the data doesn't support that notion.
quote:Yeah, that ended poorly, but I didn't say that never happens. People are imperfect and they do imperfect things, sometimes being mistaken, sometimes negligent, and sometimes being downright evil. There's a difference between a bad cop, a bad action, and a pattern of bad behavior enabled by a bad system (which seems like you and others are implying). In that particular example, the officer was actually charged for the incident and was only acquitted due to wording of the law making it difficult to meet the standard for guilt.
Philando Castille.
Posted on 9/24/20 at 1:03 pm to Whiznot
BTW...
Woman tazed at a HS game for not wearing a mask
This is an example of a white woman being tazed and dragged off by a black officer due to resisting arrest. I'm just as much against her resisting arrest as I am for those others who have been mentioned in this thread. Don't resist arrest. Fight in court.
Woman tazed at a HS game for not wearing a mask
This is an example of a white woman being tazed and dragged off by a black officer due to resisting arrest. I'm just as much against her resisting arrest as I am for those others who have been mentioned in this thread. Don't resist arrest. Fight in court.
Posted on 9/24/20 at 3:19 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
That's patently false and utterly absurd. By law, citizens of this country receive due process, regardless of the color of their skin.
But is it really though? Your argument would intimate that those accused of crimes in Russia, Saudi Arabia, and the Philippines always get their due process because they too have laws guaranteeing due process and impartial tribunals. Doesn’t mean it happens though. Of course, I am not suggesting we have degraded to the levels of those countries, but the comparison serves to illustrate my point that laws are only as good as those charged to faithfully uphold and vindicate them. Without that, “laws” aren’t really laws anymore.
Posted on 9/24/20 at 3:33 pm to baconwaffle
quote:Our judicial system has a lot of rights built into it that don't exist in some of those countries you provided. In spite of the left wanting to censor everything, we still have a lot of ways for information to get out in case injustice does exist.
But is it really though? Your argument would intimate that those accused of crimes in Russia, Saudi Arabia, and the Philippines always get their due process because they too have laws guaranteeing due process and impartial tribunals. Doesn’t mean it happens though. Of course, I am not suggesting we have degraded to the levels of those countries, but the comparison serves to illustrate my point that laws are only as good as those charged to faithfully uphold and vindicate them. Without that, “laws” aren’t really laws anymore.
As much as I despise the BLM organization and think they are misled in their goals, I do support the right for people to peacefully protest what they perceive as injustice. Such protestations can and do often times result in justice and/or reforms to laws and policies that perpetrate real injustice.
Our system is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but that's not the argument being made. The argument is that our system is fundamentally unjust beyond repair and should be destroyed, and I don't agree with that at all.
Posted on 9/24/20 at 3:43 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Our judicial system has a lot of rights built into it that don't exist in some of those countries you provided.
Not true. Those counties all have pro-forma “laws” that, on paper, are similar to ours. Even the autocracies have to keep up appearances and say they provide everyone with due process. It’s just not cool to have Nuremburg codes anymore. And even if our judicial system is the best on paper, I still reiterate my argument such a system is meaningless unless the human beings charged with administering it fail to do so in a faithful and equal manner.
quote:
The argument is that our system is fundamentally unjust beyond repair and should be destroyed, and I don't agree with that at all.
I don’t know any credible individual who is arguing this. Another strawman argument to vilify the opposition. What credible people on the left ARE arguing, however, is that it does contain some injustice, and that needs to be remedied. Progress never stops. But if you want to talk about people calling for the destruction of the system, look no further than the GSB where more than a few individuals casually suggest that Democrats, or anyone who doesn’t agree with Trump, should be barred from voting. Maybe clean up your own house before making up lies about your neighbor’s house.
Posted on 9/24/20 at 4:10 pm to baconwaffle
Our justice system doesn't allow leakers of classified information to defend themselves even if their actions exposed government criminality. Edward Snowden offered to return to face trial if he was allowed to mount a defense.
There was a time in my life when I could have exposed serious government crimes that adversely affect us all but, instead of facing the consequences, I submitted my resignation.
There was a time in my life when I could have exposed serious government crimes that adversely affect us all but, instead of facing the consequences, I submitted my resignation.
Posted on 9/24/20 at 4:41 pm to DawgsLife
Well said. 
Posted on 9/24/20 at 5:29 pm to baconwaffle
quote:We're going off on a tangent by focusing on other countries at this time. The initial complaint I had was that you were saying we treat enemy combatants better than our own black citizens. It's absurd on its face. I was then saying that our country has the rule of law that doesn't exist in many parts of the world and we have a Constitution and separate but equal branches of government that help ensure fairness under the law.
Not true. Those counties all have pro-forma “laws” that, on paper, are similar to ours. Even the autocracies have to keep up appearances and say they provide everyone with due process. It’s just not cool to have Nuremburg codes anymore.
Saudi Arabia in particular has been condemned several times by human rights organizations for their lack of justice. They use Sharia Law as the basis of their legal and judicial systems. They don't allow a jury of peers to judge the accused. There is no right against self-incrimination. In fact, they can force a person to take a religious oath of innocence and if the accused doesn't do so, they interpret that as a sign of guilt. Even "cruel and unusual" punishments don't apply there. But again, that's beside the point.
quote:And my point was that we still have checks and balances, appeals, and a free press to bring light to injustices that may exist. Perhaps I'm simply not recalling well, but have you or others provided examples of systemic injustice? Independent examples of injustice or bad policing is one thing, but I'm curious where our system is broken down to support your claim that we treat our enemies better than our black citizens.
And even if our judicial system is the best on paper, I still reiterate my argument such a system is meaningless unless the human beings charged with administering it fail to do so in a faithful and equal manner.
quote:It's the essence of critical theory, especially critical race theory that is being pushed hard this Summer in media, academia, politics, and in the corporate world. The "defund the police" initiative that has the support of many Democrat politicians throughout the country is an application of this idelogy. Colin Kaepernick called for the abolishment of the "white supremacist institution of policing" in a tweet just yesterday in response to the Taylor indictment news.
I don’t know any credible individual who is arguing this. Another strawman argument to vilify the opposition.
quote:I'm happy to have a discussion about what to do about injustice in the system if there is any, however I haven't seen any good examples of systemic racism or injustice in the system today. The examples provided aren't unique by race and they don't take into consideration the contexts that I've been trying to provide in this thread alone. Those who see racism everywhere will find it everywhere. Those who see injustice everywhere will find it everywhere. Even if it's not actually there.
What credible people on the left ARE arguing, however, is that it does contain some injustice, and that needs to be remedied. Progress never stops.
quote:Why not both? I disagree whole-heartedly with those who want to kill or silence their opposition, no matter which side they are on. The link I posted to the woman resisting arrest at a football game due to mask enforcement was taken from the political board and there were plenty of people there that didn't seem to have the same problem I did with her resisting arrest. Inconsistencies exist on all sides and I'm happy to call them out when I see them. I don't think one conversation should not be had simply because there are multiple other conversations that could be had at the same time.
But if you want to talk about people calling for the destruction of the system, look no further than the GSB where more than a few individuals casually suggest that Democrats, or anyone who doesn’t agree with Trump, should be barred from voting. Maybe clean up your own house before making up lies about your neighbor’s house.
Posted on 9/25/20 at 1:32 pm to Whiznot
Posted on 9/25/20 at 2:24 pm to Whiznot
Posted on 9/25/20 at 5:04 pm to tgdawg68
There are plenty a brilliant men who smoked weed regularly.
I do agree that cannabis can have an adverse effect on short term memory.
I try to avoid dangerous pain killers like opioids, NSAIDs and acetaminophen which have side effects that can be deadly.
I do agree that cannabis can have an adverse effect on short term memory.
I try to avoid dangerous pain killers like opioids, NSAIDs and acetaminophen which have side effects that can be deadly.
Posted on 9/26/20 at 1:51 pm to Whiznot
Hadn’t heard of that case before. After reading a few articles and watching the short footage in the video you linked, it looks like a tragedy but not a crime. If an officer is in fear of their life, lethal force is justified to stop the threat. Vehicles are considered deadly weapons and if the kid was not stopping as he was backing out and approaching the officer, I can see why the shooting occurred.
I’ve yet to see an example where there wasn’t a resistance to arrest or an attack if some kind that introduced a reasonable fear for life or limb.
I’ve yet to see an example where there wasn’t a resistance to arrest or an attack if some kind that introduced a reasonable fear for life or limb.
Posted on 10/6/20 at 9:44 am to FooManChoo
White Cop Accused of Killing Black 'Hometown Hero'
Shaun Lucas fatally shot Jonathan Price, who witnesses say was trying to stop an assault on a woman. Lucas is facing a murder charge.
Shaun Lucas fatally shot Jonathan Price, who witnesses say was trying to stop an assault on a woman. Lucas is facing a murder charge.
Posted on 10/6/20 at 9:53 am to Whiznot
Arrested and charged. A man was shot and killed on Tunnel Blvd last night in Chattanooga, why aren’t you talking about that too? We both know why.
Posted on 10/6/20 at 10:04 am to RedFive
quote:
Arrested and charged.
case closed. this really goes against the soy boy narrative of cops getting special treatment
Posted on 10/6/20 at 1:44 pm to RedFive
In their official duties, cops represent us and it is our responsibility to work for justice.
Random citizens don't represent us. There is a fundamental difference.
Random citizens don't represent us. There is a fundamental difference.
Posted on 10/6/20 at 2:09 pm to Whiznot
quote:Sounds like (so far) the system is working as it should. No need to protest if the facts and evidence point to murder and the officer is convicted of it.
White Cop Accused of Killing Black 'Hometown Hero'
Shaun Lucas fatally shot Jonathan Price, who witnesses say was trying to stop an assault on a woman. Lucas is facing a murder charge.
Other than just pointing out another potential bad apple on the force, I'm not sure what your point is in posting this one as it isn't indicative of system racism when officers break the rules and are charged for doing so.
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