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re: J.K. Dobbins Deserved the Invitation
Posted on 12/30/19 at 12:53 pm to DawgsLife
Posted on 12/30/19 at 12:53 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
while while more gifted mentally at this stag
Still waiting on your to provide actual evidence that Fromm is “‘more mentally gifted”. That was a lot of text of your opinions to skim through without finding it and only reading your excuses on why Fromm made mistakes.
This post was edited on 12/30/19 at 12:57 pm
Posted on 12/30/19 at 12:57 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Take the gif that was in question and still in a post. One of Fields INTs Saturday was almost a carbon copy of it. yet it is shown as proof that fromm is bad, and Fields is given a pass.
The all American safety came across the field and intercepted a pass in the pocket 30 yards downfield, and it’s not a pick 6, so that’s clearly not “almost a carbon copy”. Not even close.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 12:58 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Fields was bailed out by circus catches during their game with Clemson.
Let’s see a bad pass that their wr caught.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 1:02 pm to gamatt53
quote:
Still waiting on your to provide actual evidence that Fromm is “‘more mentally gifted”.
Nobody can do that.
How do you prove mental acuity? I guess the best example would be in the Rose Bowl when he checked out of a play, moved Michel to Fromm's left and then Michel went 60 or so yards for a TD. There are tons of other examples. Have you not watched countless games in which Fromm checked out of plays correctly?
Yes, I have seen instances in which he checked out of plays unsuccessfully.
I have to ask, though. I mean, NFL scouts and insiders talk about and rave about Fromm's presnap reads and checks to plays. Why are you so dead set about saying he cannot do these things?
When Fields is talked about it goes straight to his physical abilities. You seem dead set on denying Fromm's greatest asset. Why?
Posted on 12/30/19 at 1:02 pm to djsdawg
quote:
The all American safety came across the field and intercepted a pass in the pocket 30 yards downfield, and it’s not a pick 6, so that’s clearly not “almost a carbon copy”. Not even close.
okay. You are wrong.
ETA
Look. I am not going to debate whether they are exact carbon copies or not. If you don't see the similarities, then there simply is not point.
This post was edited on 12/30/19 at 1:05 pm
Posted on 12/30/19 at 1:05 pm to meansonny
quote:
You still deny that Fields got lots of playing time. Playing time in crucial moments of crucial games.
Random single wild cat plays arent “lots of playing time”.
Random single wild cat plays aren’t “quality QB play.”
I am talking talking quality QB playing time vs carolina, Tennessee, Mizzou, and LSU.
He got none despite being explosive in the 2 games in which he got quality QB playing time.
He got none despite Fromm struggling early in those games.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 1:10 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
okay. You are wrong.
Wrong how? I pointed out the obvious differences.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 1:15 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
presnap reads and checks to plays
So that’s what you are going with as your evidence?
Ok how about this. Fields threw less interceptions, converted way more 3rd downs, took way less negative plays, and in general was mentally stronger post snap.
quote:
You seem dead set on denying Fromm's greatest asset. Why?
I am not denying anything I am just telling you that he isn’t clearly better mentally. Calling audibles isn’t some super amazing ability we did it all the time on my damn high school team lol
This post was edited on 12/30/19 at 1:18 pm
Posted on 12/30/19 at 1:16 pm to djsdawg
quote:
Random single wild cat plays arent “lots of playing time”.
This is trolling. You complain about playing time. But when playing time was had, you complain about the playcall (inaccurately. A QB isnt in the wildcat). I've pointed this out at least 3 times, but it still is your very first go to reply.
I'm tired of you. I just think you are a 5 year old screaming for attention. That's what trolls do.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 1:40 pm to meansonny
quote:
This is trollinB
So you clearly don’t know what trolling is if you claim that is trolling.
quote:
You complain about playing time.
No. I have clearly been talking about quality PT. I have repeatedly told you that, and you still don’t understand it. What’s up with that?
The only games he got quality PT was against Austin peay and MTSU, and he was explosive in those games, contrary to your claim.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 1:40 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Nobody can do that.
So why make the claim you made?
Posted on 12/30/19 at 1:44 pm to gamatt53
quote:
No one around here has said he was bad. He is in fact well above average he just isn’t elite and was way overhyped coming into this year.
I Just get tired of the folks around here who possess an inability to objectively analyze him and realize there are faults in his game.
Also the Fields/Fromm comparison is always going to be a thing and that same group is incapable of being objective. Even you it appears...for example you say Fromm is more gifted mentally however results this year don’t support that when he was the one who made more mental mistakes.
Of course he has faults in his game. I don’t think anyone would remotely argue that... when people say we can never make it to a Natty with him, when we literally went to one with him, you have to question their understanding and intentions... He has never been asked to be a slinger. Not Kirby’s style. Maybe that will change, but he has played into the system he has been asked to play in. This year was bad for a lot of reasons. Some of them were on Fromm.
On the subject of this thread. Ohio State was vastly superior on both sides of the ball vs most of their competitors. Dobbins ability to run between the tackles or on the edge opened up the passing and running game for Fields. In the games i watched, Fields made plenty of good throws, but did so with a clean pocket and to open receivers. He also was able to run well as the teams they played didn’t have the speed or depth to stop the threats Ohio state had across the board. Against Clemson, he wasn’t able to run for any notable yards and was sacked 4 times. He didn’t have a terrible passing day, but a lot of his completions were dinks under the coverage. The biggest issue I saw, though, was he locked into his primary on the vast majority of his throws. It lead to both of his interceptions and almost two more. This was likely due to him being able to get away with it against lesser defenses who were struggling to contain the run game . Add some very good and fast receivers and it certainly made his job easier. This is not to say he didn’t play well or have a great season. He did better than I thought he would and frankly the Ohio State team is a lot better than I thought it would be.
Honest speculation would be that Fromm, if healthy, could have put up big passing numbers at Ohio State. He would not have had the rushing yards Fields had though.
If Fields was at UGA this year, I think we would have devolved to depending on his legs a lot and he is a big dude and fast.... so Im sure he would have produced for us in that regard... maybe opening up the game more for the other backs. Who knows, but Fields was dinged playing Big 10 teams due to all his running. I can’t imagine him surviving running it possibly more against SEC teams. Plus, assuming Fromm was gone, our backup situation was a big drop off for a team contending for a championship. Those are things coaches have to consider. Freak accidents can always happen, but the odds go up when a QB carries the ball... especially between the hashes.
In any case, Fromm has shown he can lead a team to the playoffs. A lot went wrong this season. Hopefully a lot of lessons have been learned and we get things fixed for next year.
Fields may well progress and improve on his reads. That comes with time, though not everyone can do it. Thats the difference between NFL QBs and college QBs. Fields is going to be on a team next year that will have lost 14 or so players to the NFL. We will see if their recruiting will fill those holes, but it is hard to think they will replace that talent. Be interesting to see how he progresses.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 1:56 pm to Peter Buck
quote:
when people say we can never make it to a Natty with him, when we literally went to one with him, you have to question their understanding and intentions...
It’s already been pointed out that no one said this, so stop trolling. Your intentions can’t be trusted by continuing on with that.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 2:10 pm to Peter Buck
Well lookie there a competent thought out post that wasn’t just a trolling “Fields choked he can’t win the big one”
I honestly agree with everything you said with one notable exception; Fields didn’t have his legs fully Saturday night. Injury/brace limited him. He is special in that regard and it’s unfortunate he wasn’t able to use that ability to its fullest.
I honestly agree with everything you said with one notable exception; Fields didn’t have his legs fully Saturday night. Injury/brace limited him. He is special in that regard and it’s unfortunate he wasn’t able to use that ability to its fullest.
This post was edited on 12/30/19 at 2:12 pm
Posted on 12/30/19 at 2:23 pm to djsdawg
quote:
Wrong how? I pointed out the obvious differences.
And I disagree. Look. I am done with 10-12 page back and forths. When we disagree we are better off saying we disagree and driving on. No offense. It doesn't mean I am right, and it doesn't mean you are right. it means we disagree and I have learned no amount of talking is going to change anything.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 2:29 pm to gamatt53
quote:
So that’s what you are going with as your evidence?
Well, yes. that is literally what it is. Pre-snap reads and checking into correct plays. Film study that allows you to recognize another teams tendencies. Exactly what did you think it was?
quote:Fewer INTs, Converting more 3rd downs, taking away negative plays has a lot more to do with the cast you have playing with you. As for post snap plays....that has as much to do with instinct as anything. It's important, so I am not putting down Fields for that.
Ok how about this. Fields threw less interceptions, converted way more 3rd downs, took way less negative plays, and in general was mentally stronger post snap.
Why is it so difficult for you to recognize and give credit to Fromm for his strengths that scouts and past players give him credit for, but you can't?
quote:
I am not denying anything I am just telling you that he isn’t clearly better mentally. Calling audibles isn’t some super amazing ability we did it all the time on my damn high school team lol
I understand why you would be hesitant to take my word for it. You don't know me or what my background is. That's okay.
But numerous scouts, announcers that are past NFL QBs and other knowledgeable people rave about Fromm's abilities in this area. Yet, you can't seem to give him this credit. It just seems odd.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 2:34 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
But numerous scouts, announcers that are past NFL QBs and other knowledgeable people rave about Fromm's abilities in this area.
I would agree Fromm knows the offense incredibly well, is very good pre-snap, and has by all accounts great work ethic. However, post snap he's not as good as many people build him up to be. I might even give him the edge over Fields pre-snap. I don't see anything else he does nearly as well as Fields however.
We're kind of going around in circles, and I doubt we're going to change each other's minds. At least we're not attacking one another and talking about it rationally.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 2:37 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
And I disagree
That’s just stupid. There was far more different about those plays than similar.
Posted on 12/30/19 at 2:42 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Yet, you can't seem to give him this credit. It just seems odd.
I don’t think calling audibles at the line is some mythical ability that Fromm possesses that makes him better than others.
In this day and age the fact that he even does it is rare since most college offenses look to the sideline to get the play all based on how the defense lined up. And why not? It gives the offenses a huge advantage when the coach in the box has a birds eye view of the defenses set before the play call is all sent in.
It certainly didn’t make much of a difference this year since we regressed so much and it doesn’t mean Fromm is smarter than anyone else.
This post was edited on 12/30/19 at 2:52 pm
Posted on 12/30/19 at 2:46 pm to gamatt53
quote:
Well lookie there a competent thought out post that wasn’t just a trolling “Fields choked he can’t win the big one”
I honestly agree with everything you said with one notable exception; Fields didn’t have his legs fully Saturday night. Injury/brace limited him. He is special in that regard and it’s unfortunate he wasn’t able to use that ability to its fullest.
If fully healthy, one can assume he would have been faster. How much and how it would have played out vs a fast defense would be speculative... but agree, he was dinged and it limited him to some degree. To that, it becomes circular as the more you run a QB, the more chances he has of getting dinged. Not only can the dings affect his running, but sore ribs and rung bells certainly affect your ability to see the field and make all the throws. It is part of the risk you take of running that kind of offense. Burrow typically does a good job of getting down after making runs. The Clemson kid seems to not care about it. He got the living frick knocked out of him and he got up and played better. He is the toughest SOB with girls hair I have ever seen.
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