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re: If Fields had stayed
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:53 pm to djsdawg
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:53 pm to djsdawg
quote:I disagree. He got way more playing time than I thought he should considering Fromm wasn't playing horribly and had proven himself over and over again. Fields got to play plenty and he didn't show anything on the field that put him ahead of Fromm outside of being able to run the ball, but running QBs are more likely to get injured, which isn't great when you don't have a lot of depth at that position.
He was never given a fair chance on the football field to win the job, so he left as any reasonable qb would have done. Ohio st and all of our opponents thank Kirby for his short sighted and gutless decision.
It wasn't CKS' decision to "let" him go. He chose to leave because he's got a big head and thinks he's the best ever and couldn't believe he didn't beat out Fromm. Why do you think he decided to go to UGA in the first place with a QB that helped lead the team to a national championship game as a true freshman? He thought he was the best and could do even better. He didn't want to take advantage of the experience and intelligence of Fromm; he wanted to show out and beat Fromm. When he didn't do that, he left, and he did so in a pretty selfish way.
And yes Fields is doing well at tOSU. He's in an offense that he can do well in. He wouldn't have that same offense here if he stayed and beat out Fromm for the job.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:54 pm to Buzz Killington
quote:No one is denying Fields' talent. The problem that some of us have is that people like you can't tell the difference between quarterbacks and offenses. You can't make a one-to-one comparison between Fields and Fromm this season because they are in completely different situations.
If you think Fromm is better than Fields then you don’t watch football. The guy has 40+ touchdowns. Fromm has less than 20. And Wisconsin and Penn State have good defenses. Some of you people are so hard headed and refuse to admit the talent of Fields.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:56 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I disagree. He got way more playing time than I thought he should considering Fromm wasn't playing horribly and had proven himself over and over again. Fields got to play plenty and he didn't show anything on the field that put him ahead of Fromm outside of being able to run the ball, but running QBs are more likely to get injured, which isn't great when you don't have a lot of depth at that position.
He absolutely should have gotten a shot in the second half in Baton Rouge. Fromm didn't have it that day, and that made it obvious that there was nothing Fromm could do to lose the job.
quote:
He thought he was the best and could do even better.
It looks like he's probably right about that.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:56 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
You can't make a one-to-one comparison between Fields and Fromm this season because they are in completely different situations.
Of course you can if you watch the games. They don't exactly decide Heismans with a raffle.
Question: Right now what does Jake definitely do better than Fields?
This post was edited on 11/26/19 at 4:20 pm
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:57 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
The problem that some of us have is that people like you can't tell the difference between quarterbacks and offenses.
If players like Justin Fields don't fit our offense, that's our problem, not theirs.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 4:01 pm to Crowknowsbest
quote:
If players like Justin Fields don't fit our offense, that's our problem, not theirs.
Exactly. Great coaches tailor their offense to fit their best players. Clemson realized that their younger QB had far more talent and upside than their experienced QB and Dabo had the balls to make the switch even when his team was undefeated.
Look at what the Ravens are doing with Lamar Jackson. They aren't trying to pidgeon hole him into the same offense that Flacco used to run because "that's their offense."
This post was edited on 11/26/19 at 4:02 pm
Posted on 11/26/19 at 4:09 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
While possible, it's unlikely. Football is a game of momentum and while we might get a temporary let up on the run defense, if we can't execute on the short-to-medium throws then the defense won't take long to go back to stacking the box. We can't rely on 50 yard bombs; that's not what our offense is about. We're more of a dink-and-dunk offense that eats clock and rests our defense with a few big plays thrown in for good measure. It's "old man football". We just need to do better at executing that style of football.
We need tds no matter what it takes. TDS can be on a long and methodical drive, or a 25+ yard pass to an open wr.
The latter should be easier to do than the former. If you do that often enough, it should help with our long drives as the defense has to adjust.
When it’s a missed pass to an open wr, it’s obvious who is at fault. It’s Fromm. Due to your emotional attachment to Fromm, you always try to shift the discussion away from such plays, and onto something that can be blamed on others.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 4:10 pm to DawgRff
quote:That throw didn't help, but it wasn't a bad decision; it was throwing the ball away from a defender in his face and he just didn't get enough on it.
To be fair, we're 11-1 with the 1 loss coming die to Fromm's pick 6.
fify
Outside of that, our offense was bad again, with the same issues we've had all season. We also had a few special teams blunders that made things worse. It was a freak show of a game, but we didn't lose the game because of that one play. We lost because we didn't execute throughout the game.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 4:11 pm to Crowknowsbest
quote:Take that up with the coaches.
Zero top college teams rely on this approach to move the ball and score points other than UGA.
I don’t like relying on just us to have outsmarted them all. When you’re alone in a strategic approach, you’re more likely wrong than right.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 4:26 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Take that up with the coaches.
I would if I had their ear.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 4:32 pm to Crowknowsbest
quote:Our team didn't have it that day. LSU's defense was great. We had 4 or 5 dropped balls. We had a ref get in the way of a pass. LSU's defense was manhandling our receivers. And yes, Fromm also had some bad passes. It was a disaster all around, and sure, Fields could have gotten a few more snaps in there and maybe even a series, but whatever you think about CKS' decision not to pull Fromm, Fromm lit it up the rest of the season.
He absolutely should have gotten a shot in the second half in Baton Rouge. Fromm didn't have it that day, and that made it obvious that there was nothing Fromm could do to lose the job.
quote:He may turn out to be the greatest QB ever, but he wasn't last season. It was his choice to leave.
It looks like he's probably right about that
Posted on 11/26/19 at 4:37 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
He got way more playing time than I thought he should considering Fromm wasn't playing horribly and had proven himself over and over again. Fields got to play plenty and he didn't show anything on the field that put him ahead of Fromm
Fromm had some slow starts in 2018 games, and was given a chance to work through them while fields watched. That’s exactly what not being given a fair shot on the field looks like. The few times fields did get legit PT, he showed off a very accurate arm and speed.
quote:
wasn't CKS' decision to "let" him go. He chose to leave because he's got a big head and thinks he's the best ever and couldn't believe he didn't beat out Fromm. Why do you think he decided to go to UGA in the first place with a QB that helped lead the team to a national championship game as a true freshman?
Kirby knew fields was gone if he picked Fromm, and he also knew Fromm was gone if he picked fields. Players like them don’t sit on the bench, as hurts and burrow have also proven.
quote:
He's in an offense that he can do well in. He wouldn't have that same offense here
He would still have his very accurate and strong arm to go with his legs. While his overall stats wouldn’t match what he is doing up north, they would likely be very good. The uga offense would be better off for it, while the Ohio state fans raged about burrow blowing up down south.
This post was edited on 11/26/19 at 4:38 pm
Posted on 11/26/19 at 4:41 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
but it wasn't a bad decision; it was throwing the ball away from a defender in his face and he just didn't get enough on it.
This kind of stuff is why it’s so hard to take you serious on this subject. He was trying to connect with Pickens on a pass. May have worked if he had a strong arm, but he doesn’t, so it was a Terrible decision.
This post was edited on 11/26/19 at 4:45 pm
Posted on 11/26/19 at 4:51 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Our team didn't have it that day. LSU's defense was great. We had 4 or 5 dropped balls. We had a ref get in the way of a pass. LSU's defense was manhandling our receivers. And yes, Fromm also had some bad passes. It was a disaster all around, and sure, Fields could have gotten a few more snaps in there and maybe even a series, but whatever you think about CKS' decision not to pull Fromm, Fromm lit it up the rest of the season.
IMO, it was Smart's worst in-game decision to date. When things are all going wrong, you have to change something. It might not have worked, but the status quo was a certain disaster.
quote:
It was his choice to leave.
It wasn't actually a choice if he wanted to be in the NFL by 2021 (which he will be barring some sort of injury or other disaster)
Posted on 11/26/19 at 4:54 pm to chillmonster
quote:Pre-snap reads, protections, and progressions as well as those out-routes and fades. Granted, I haven't seen Fields need to do a lot of that nor do I think he has had to do a lot of that, but those are my observations.
Of course you can if you watch the games.
Question: Right now what does Jake definitely do better than Fields?
What Fields does well (besides being fast on his feet) is see the open man and put it where they can catch it. He has the luxury of being able to sling the ball with confidence that he doesn't have to be perfect since his receivers are really good at what they do and he's got a great defense to back him up.
But like I said, they are in two different offenses with two different sets of personnel with two different playbooks. You can't really compare the two QBs simply on stats alone, which was my point in initially saying you can't make that comparison.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 4:56 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Our team didn't have it that day. LSU's defense was great.
It’s possible everything changes if our qb hits an open hardman for a td, but he missed, and we punted. Think it was the next drive when Fromm was late and/or behind on a pass in the endZone to hardman, and then Kirby brain farted with a terrible fake. 14-0 uga turned into 10-0 LSU. 24 point turn right there.
That’s why hitting your shots when they present themselves matter. They are major mistakes rather than minor ones as you tried to explain earlier.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 4:57 pm to Crowknowsbest
quote:Maybe, but coaches have to look at the long-term, bigger picture with recruiting. Changing your offensive style affects more than just those players on offense. The defense can suffer from a high-octane offense and that can be off putting for some defensive recruits. It doesn't have to be, but it can be. If you're always gassed, you make mistakes, which doesn't look good on film.
If players like Justin Fields don't fit our offense, that's our problem, not theirs.
Our offensive style under CKS has been very effective when we've had the pieces to run it effectively. It's why I keep going back to our WR issues being a key difference between previous years (at least the previous two) and this year.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 5:07 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Maybe, but coaches have to look at the long-term, bigger picture with recruiting. Changing your offensive style affects more than just those players on offense. The defense can suffer from a high-octane offense and that can be off putting for some defensive recruits. It doesn't have to be, but it can be. If you're always gassed, you make mistakes, which doesn't look good on film.
This is such a reach. It's clearly really messing with recruiting at Clemson, OSU, Alabama, LSU, etc. GTFO
ETA: Also, it's much more tiring to play with an offense that goes 3 and out all the time.
quote:
It's why I keep going back to our WR issues being a key difference between previous years (at least the previous two) and this year.
If you're relying on always having experienced pieces at every position group in a college program, you're gonna have a bad time.
This post was edited on 11/26/19 at 5:15 pm
Posted on 11/26/19 at 5:25 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
But like I said, they are in two different offenses with two different sets of personnel with two different playbooks. You can't really compare the two QBs simply on stats alone, which was my point in initially saying you can't make that comparison.
Find the tape of the last three games for both. Eliminate called running plays and just watch mechanics, drop backs, pocket presence, and decision making. The comparison is very doable, and the difference is apparent.
quote:
Pre-snap reads, protections, and progressions as well as those out-routes and fades.
Fields is much better with progressions and the tape proves it definitively. Fromm throws the back shoulder fade more, but what does that prove? I've watched a lot of tape on both kids, and there isn't a single pass that we could definitively say Fromm throws better - not one.
As far as the pre-snap reads and protections, I don't know that anyone can say who does it better. Those aren't measurable, and you can't easily identify a QB's effect on tape; so they're exactly the type of things a person says when they don't really have anything. Incidentally, folks have been using this to say Fields is too dumb to play the position since last season. In reality every new kid will know less than a more veteran player (especially without the reps to help learn), but it looks now like much of the talk about it being a real problem was based on air.
Keep in mind: None of this is to say Fromm is bad. There's a great distance from either of these kids to "bad", but there's also a pretty large distance between them, which will almost certainly only get larger next season.
That's why this was such a mistake by Kirby. It's the staff's job to see the potential upside and develop players, and foregoing a probable future Heisman winner and #1 pick for almost anyone is a mistake. If this kid wouldn't have progressed as fast at UGA or if they simply didn't see his potential then it's an even bigger concern.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 5:26 pm to FooManChoo
No matter how you spin it, we let a NC level QB get away. At the time I supported Smart's decision to play Fromm. But in retrospect, seeing how good Fields has played at Ohio St., it was an obvious mistake. We might well have won a NC with Fields as our QB.
I love Fromm as an all American good guy but we will never win a NC with Fromm. He simply doesn't have the arm strength and athletic ability it takes to get the job done in today's college football environment.
Fields is a legit Heisman Trophy candidate this season. He has completed 69.4% of his passes for over 2300 yards with 33 TD's and just 1 INT. He has been laser timed at 4.43 speed in the 40. He is the type of player that you build your offense around and we let him get away.
I love Fromm as an all American good guy but we will never win a NC with Fromm. He simply doesn't have the arm strength and athletic ability it takes to get the job done in today's college football environment.
Fields is a legit Heisman Trophy candidate this season. He has completed 69.4% of his passes for over 2300 yards with 33 TD's and just 1 INT. He has been laser timed at 4.43 speed in the 40. He is the type of player that you build your offense around and we let him get away.
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