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re: The fanbase, aggydom, and poisoning the well
Posted on 1/5/16 at 10:28 am to Tridentds
Posted on 1/5/16 at 10:28 am to Tridentds
quote:
Prior to the bowl game I never said KS needed to go. I gave him every benefit of the doubt. However... When you have a freshman QB cussing out the OC you got a problem. When you have a QB like Allen transferring you got a problem. When you have Murray transferring out even though he knows he is going to start the bowl game you have a problem. All indications are that Sumlin promised Murray playing time as a freshman to get him to stay committed to A&M. Now this same guy is willing to give up an entire year of eligibility just to get out of here. What??
Honestly the more perspective and hindsight we get on that situation the more I feel that it is hard to blame the QB transfers on Sumlin. If Kyle Allen would have really succeeded then Kyler wouldn't have gotten a bit of playtime except in mop-up duties. I will always remember how we couldn't do much against an overrated ASU until Kyler came in and put them back on their heels. And Kyler obviously was everything that is bad about millennial snowflakes, so I don't see his transfer as anything but a hissy fit. I think a lot of the narrative surrounding all that situation is exactly the kind of hearsay tmc is talking about, we really don't have a lot of concrete facts.
I mean Sumlin is good at recruiting desired QBs. He got Davis, Kenny, Kyle, Kyler and now Knight. The fact that none have worked out long term is probably due to us having a very QB-dependant system: Sumlin's offensive philosophy is to be a kiln to smelt out anything but elite QBs. If there is any blame to be laid is that he has a system that requires such elite play in the SEC while fellow coaches like Les and Nick can win big games with mediocre QBs.
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Posted on 1/5/16 at 10:34 am to Old Sarge
quote:
How did A&M try to ruin Jake? Seems like he was treated very fairly
I'm also curious about this
Posted on 1/5/16 at 10:36 am to CGSC Lobotomy
The point was more effective that way. There's a difference between firing someone for not doing a good job and firing them while cursing them on their way out the door. I wouldn't want to be the next guy either if I knew the whole fan base would wish terrible things on me after ANY sign of adversity. It doesn't reflect well on us.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 10:37 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
Yeah I'm struggling to think of any circumstances under which a coordinator whose unit declined at the pace seen from Atlanta 2013 to Nashville 2015 could be expected to retain their job.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 10:41 am to Projectpat
That's the fan base
I doubt coaches give much thought to that
I'm sure Spav was treated well by the staff and ad on his way out, he was pulled out of recruiting early so he knew he was gone but he was allowed to stay through Jan 1st to get his bonus and have an opportunity to make his resume look better had he won the bowl game
That's fair treatment in anyone's book
I doubt coaches give much thought to that
I'm sure Spav was treated well by the staff and ad on his way out, he was pulled out of recruiting early so he knew he was gone but he was allowed to stay through Jan 1st to get his bonus and have an opportunity to make his resume look better had he won the bowl game
That's fair treatment in anyone's book
Posted on 1/5/16 at 10:42 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:
I'm also curious about this
We didn't do anything to Spav like we did to poor Torbush, basically making him into a cuss word.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 10:48 am to cardboardboxer
quote:
The fact that none have worked out long term is probably due to us having a very QB-dependant system: Sumlin's offensive philosophy is to be a kiln to smelt out anything but elite QBs. If there is any blame to be laid is that he has a system that requires such elite play in the SEC
I don't think Sumlin's system - if he even has a system - requires an elite QB. The play calls are simple, the reads are simple, the throws are simple.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 10:50 am to NanosTacoRun
Yeah Keenum was not an elite QB at all in terms of tools. Pretty comparable to what Tech used to roll out. I don't think Sumlin has a "system" though
Posted on 1/5/16 at 10:53 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
I agree. We haven't had the horses through recruiting yet and so we've needed extraordinary qb play to win games. Not a system just reality
Posted on 1/5/16 at 10:58 am to Projectpat
quote:
I wouldn't want to be the next guy either if I knew the whole fan base would wish terrible things on me after ANY sign of adversity.
This is hyperbolic. The whole fan base is not wishing terrible things on Spav, and criticism of him didn't just begin at the first sign of adversity.
There are some who go overboard with the vitriol, but that is universal. Have you ever read the Meltdown Time articles from Roll Bama Roll? Every fanbase has those elements. That's not going to factor into a coach's decision to come here or not.
Now, if we have been threatening to expose Sumlin's hypothetical dirty laundry to try to fire him for cause and avoid the buyout, that's something that might scare away some good candidates.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 11:03 am to cardboardboxer
You might be right. I personally I think Kyle Allen transferred because of the way the WBs were handled. I think Kyker transferred because he was a spoiled Prima Donna.
At the beginning of the season the offense was bogged down vs ASU. Kyler came in and gave us a spark. The separation of the 2 really didn't happen until Kyler had a chance to play significantly. Then it was obvious Kyke was much better.
You raise some good points that's for sure. The negative comments about Murray by other players plays into how I think this went down. Don't remember reading negative comments about Kyke Allen by players. That also has something to do with my take on this.
At the beginning of the season the offense was bogged down vs ASU. Kyler came in and gave us a spark. The separation of the 2 really didn't happen until Kyler had a chance to play significantly. Then it was obvious Kyke was much better.
You raise some good points that's for sure. The negative comments about Murray by other players plays into how I think this went down. Don't remember reading negative comments about Kyke Allen by players. That also has something to do with my take on this.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 11:04 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:
I don't think Sumlin has a "system" though
I think he does by accident. He has to overcome the crappy OL and RB development his buddy buddy coaches produce, which therefore requires elite QB play.
The good news is that we don't lack for raw materials, as every year a new hot QB is willing to step into our meat grinder. I will truly worry we are wasting QB talent when one of the transfers does well elsewhere, so far that hasn't happened.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 11:11 am to cardboardboxer
quote:
I will truly worry we are wasting QB talent when one of the transfers does well elsewhere, so far that hasn't happened.
Showers Joeckel and Davis were straight depth transfers. Davis is the only one that was hyped as a recruit whatsoever. I'm interested to see how Trill does at TCU next year
Posted on 1/5/16 at 11:29 am to greenbastard
Nah. There was never really a thought to keeping the staff in tact. There are major personality differences that have been ongoing. Something had to give. Btw Spav was let go a while ago. It's one of the reasons Kyle Allen transferred
The job of the head coach is to make A&M an attractive place to be and avoid crushing assistant careers. Unfortunately some of the negativity spilled over to the point that a booster essentially scuttled another job for Jake. There was really no need for that - the guy was already fired so just let it go.
So rather than him leaving with grace he had to be publicly fired. Despite that he did his job to the end even calling recruits to make sure they stayed on board.
The job of the head coach is to make A&M an attractive place to be and avoid crushing assistant careers. Unfortunately some of the negativity spilled over to the point that a booster essentially scuttled another job for Jake. There was really no need for that - the guy was already fired so just let it go.
So rather than him leaving with grace he had to be publicly fired. Despite that he did his job to the end even calling recruits to make sure they stayed on board.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 11:30 am to Tridentds
quote:
I think Kyler transferred because he was a spoiled Prima Donna.
I don't think anyone disagrees including Sumlin. Hell tmc said Sumlin didn't want to recruit him, and it turns out that maybe Sumlin was right. It sucks that the kid was a legacy and that he had so many other recruits willing to follow him to Texas if he went. If he was never born our dumpster might still be a dumpster, but it wouldn't be on fire for all to see.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 11:31 am to tmc94
quote:Well that's stupid, I know coordinator buyout money isn't astronomical or anything but that booster should be named and shamed
a booster essentially scuttled another job for Jake
Posted on 1/5/16 at 11:31 am to tmc94
quote:
Unfortunately some of the negativity spilled over to the point that a booster essentially scuttled another job for Jake.
Well that is pretty shitty. It is hard to hold a fan base accountable for a rogue booster though (ala the 1994 season).
Posted on 1/5/16 at 11:33 am to Tridentds
quote:
Then it was obvious Kyke was much better.
nevermind. misinterpreted it.
This post was edited on 1/5/16 at 11:43 am
Posted on 1/5/16 at 11:39 am to CGSC Lobotomy
Kyke = Kyle
Kyker = Kyler
He is saying Kyle was the better QB
Kyker = Kyler
He is saying Kyle was the better QB
Posted on 1/5/16 at 11:45 am to Mirthomatic
sorry, mirth, should have been more specific when I said that.
The OP wasn't necessarily about Sumlin (he's just one of many examples but he wasn't even mentioned in it on purpose) but your response was entirely about Sumlin and what he specifically needs to do. There are plenty of threads to discuss that but it's not really the topic here despite that being all some want to talk about
The OP wasn't necessarily about Sumlin (he's just one of many examples but he wasn't even mentioned in it on purpose) but your response was entirely about Sumlin and what he specifically needs to do. There are plenty of threads to discuss that but it's not really the topic here despite that being all some want to talk about
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