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re: I don't know if Deion can coach at the highest level...
Posted on 1/8/22 at 11:59 pm to Sub Par SUPERSTAR
Posted on 1/8/22 at 11:59 pm to Sub Par SUPERSTAR
At some point Deion has to actually win something. He has been a rolling infomerical for 20 plus years now and has been a shambling sh%t show for all of those 20 years.
He tried to start a charter school and aggressively recruit in Dallas and that melted down.
He shifted over into a private school in South Dallas. We had the huge ESPN televised local matchup of Parish Day and Trinity Christian Cedar Hill (coached by Deion with his son Shadeur at QB). They lost convincingly despite having better talent.
We had the recent huge matchup of Jackson State against underdog Southern in the celebration bowl and Deion gets blown out.
He is obviously a salesman but the joke seems to be on everyone else and he keeps failing upwards. Maybe this time is different if he stays where he is given the talent he is inking to a non-competitive league. Still, Deion to FSU feels like a hilarious final unmasking. The dude does not seem like a serious coach.
He tried to start a charter school and aggressively recruit in Dallas and that melted down.
He shifted over into a private school in South Dallas. We had the huge ESPN televised local matchup of Parish Day and Trinity Christian Cedar Hill (coached by Deion with his son Shadeur at QB). They lost convincingly despite having better talent.
We had the recent huge matchup of Jackson State against underdog Southern in the celebration bowl and Deion gets blown out.
He is obviously a salesman but the joke seems to be on everyone else and he keeps failing upwards. Maybe this time is different if he stays where he is given the talent he is inking to a non-competitive league. Still, Deion to FSU feels like a hilarious final unmasking. The dude does not seem like a serious coach.
2
Posted on 1/9/22 at 12:32 am to Windy City
Actually, J-State did beat Southern this past season. Come from behind win on the road. And they did win their division and the conference. They were upset by South Carolina State in the Celebration bowl.
Posted on 1/9/22 at 1:50 am to DawgsLife
quote:
Deacon Jones-Mississippi Vocational College
...
Tony Romo-Eastern Illinois
Deacon Jones was drafted in the 14th round. And Tony Romo went undrafted.
Jones was reportedly discovered by accident, when the Rams went to scout some running backs, and found this DT outrunning them.
Romo was more on the NFL's radar, but still didn't get drafted despite this college career:
"On December 19, 2002, Romo became the first player in Eastern Illinois and Ohio Valley Conference history to win the Walter Payton Award, given annually to the top Division I-AA football player. He finished his career holding school and conference records with 85 touchdown passes.[14] He finished second in school and third in conference history with 8,212 passing yards and second in school history with 584 completions and 941 attempts.[15] As a senior, he set school and conference records for completions with 258 in 407 attempts for 3,418 yards. This was second in conference and third in school history for a season. He threw for 34 touchdowns and scored one rushing touchdown. Romo's 3,149 yards in total offense as a senior ranked third in school and conference history. Along with the Walter Payton Award, Romo earned consensus All-America honors. In addition, he was selected All-Ohio Valley Conference and was named OVC Player of the Year for the third straight year.[15]"
This is the problem. It isn't that you CAN'T have a great NFL career if you play at a small school, but you are making it harder on yourself if you do, and you're very possibly giving up a lot of money from your first contract. Is there any doubt that Jones or Romo would have been early-round draftees had they played in a major conference like the SEC or B1G?
I can respect what Travis Hunter is trying to do, and given how highly he was rated coming out of HS, he might not suffer from the decision much, because he already has the attention of scouts. But it's still a risk. And it will be an even bigger risk for players who don't start out with Hunter's high profile
Posted on 1/9/22 at 5:09 am to DawgsLife
quote:
We could go on and on with players that have gone on to play in and excell in the NFL that went to small schools and Historically Black Colleges
You're going back 40 years+ in some of your examples.Many didn't have much of a choice and HBCU's were a good source for NFL talent back then.
Things have changed a lot since then especially with training,coaching,nutrition,off season conditioning,etc.There's a huge difference between P5 and HBCU's in those areas.
No,I don't think they're "ruining their NFL careers" but they'll be better prepared and more advanced coming out in 3 years practicing and playing against far more potential NFL talent had he gone to an SEC or even FSU and Miami.There are obvious exceptions but I believe your chances or odds of making in the next level or getting drafted higher are better with all those P5 advantages.
This post was edited on 1/9/22 at 7:05 am
Posted on 1/9/22 at 7:03 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
Please, do go on. I’d like to see the list.
And I’d also like to see the NFL draft percentages with highly rated recruits going to blue blood programs vs HCBUs and other non D1 programs.
Don't be obtuse. Certainly bigger schools will put in more players. Certainly a higher percentage of players in the NFL are from big schools. Historically bigger schools get the better recruits.
But the post I am responding to said:
These kids are ruining their potential NFL careers by going to a shite school.
That clearly is not the case.
Do you seriously want to back up that comment?
Posted on 1/9/22 at 7:14 am to RD Dawg
quote:
You're going back 40 years+ in some of your examples.Many didn't have much of a choice back then and HBCU's were a good source for NFL talent back then.
That's not true. Black players were playing at D1 schools 40 years ago. the reason I picked some of those were because they were playing when i was watching the NFL and thought people would recognize them easier. I aloso listed some fo the current players....and there were others. Pull up the last draft list and look at players that came from smaller schools.
#3 overall pick: Trey Lance -North dakota State
#16 overall pick: Zaven Collins-Tulsa
#28 overall pick-Payton Turner-Houston
Those were all First Round picks that went to smaller schools or schools that are not P5, at least.
Look. I am not arguing that I would do it, or would recommend anybody to do it that way. What I am saying is that you are not Killing your chances of an NFL career. If you are good they will find you. Yes, some will probably fall through the cracks, but as a whole they will find you.
Also, with the Transfer Portal they can go to that school and then transfer out in a year or two to a big school. The NFL isn't going to forget about Travis Hunter.
quote:THIS is the statement i was responding to.
No,I don't think they're "ruining their NFL careers"
quote:I agree with this. Iw asn't advocating that there should be some kind of mass exodus to the Black Colleges or smaller schools. Simply that the best of them will do fine.
but they'll be better prepared and more advanced coming out in 3 years practicing and playing against far more potential NFL talent
Honestly? If enough black athletes began going to the HBCU theyw oudl improve and get better coaches and could possibly begin to compete with some bigger teams/schools/leagues. It would take a looooong time, but it's not like a smaller, weaker league has never competed, grown and was eventually absorbed into a bigger, stronger league.
Posted on 1/9/22 at 7:16 am to Mirthomatic
quote:
Deacon Jones was drafted in the 14th round. And Tony Romo went undrafted.
And? Not only did they play in the NFL but made boatloads of money in the NFL.
quote:And yet you are arguing against me when I said the exact same thing. It will not kill their NFL careers. I literally (Literally being used correctly)said that in the post you are responding to.
This is the problem. It isn't that you CAN'T have a great NFL career if you play at a small school, but you are making it harder on yourself if you do, and you're very possibly giving up a lot of money from your first contract. Is there any doubt that Jones or Romo would have been early-round draftees had they played in a major conference like the SEC or B1G?
Posted on 1/9/22 at 7:19 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
Please, do go on. I’d like to see the list.
Please check above. I named three players that went to smaller, non P5 schools that were drafted in the first round last draft.
ETA
Here:
#3 overall pick: Trey Lance -North Dakota State
#16 overall pick: Zaven Collins-Tulsa
#28 overall pick-Payton Turner-Houston
This post was edited on 1/9/22 at 7:21 am
Posted on 1/9/22 at 7:45 am to DawgsLife
quote:
That's not true. Black players were playing at D1 schools 40 years
Sure and never said otherwise there just weren't many in the south and HBCU's were a more comfortable alternative to many AA's.I
Once again going back 40+ years to give examples of HBCU players succeeding isn't much of a case.
quote:
Pull up the last draft list and look at players that came from smaller schools
Sure but isn't close to what it used to be and the SWAC and MEAC really isn't even competitive within FCS.They probably would've dominated FCS in the 60's had there been divisions back then.
quote:
#3 overall pick: Trey Lance -North dakota State
#16 overall pick: Zaven Collins-Tulsa
#28 overall pick-Payton Turner-Houston
You seem to be conflating G5's,FCS's and non playoff FCS (HBCU).Houston is light years ahead of FCS schools as far as resources,facilities and coaching.They're moving back to P5 in '22 or '23 BTW.
Once again once said FCS or HBCU's don't produce NFL players just said you'll be more prepared and the odds of getting drafted are higher at a P5.There really isn't an argument to be made otherwise.
quote:
What I am saying is that you are not Killing your chances of an NFL career
Never said otherwise
quote:
The NFL isn't going to forget about Travis Hunter
Ok
quote:
It would take a looooong time, but it's not like a smaller, weaker league has never competed, grown and was eventually absorbed into a bigger, stronger league.
Need money and lots of it and unless big TV contracts start coming their way I don't see it.
NIL might help getting players but you still have to have the backbone (facilities,coaching,etc) to compete at the highest level.
Posted on 1/9/22 at 9:47 am to DawgsLife
quote:you left out:
Jerry Rice-Mississippi Valley State
Walter Payton-Jackson State
Deacon Jones-Mississippi Vocational College
Gene Upshaw-Texas A&I
Willie Lanier-Morgan State
Marques Colston-Hofstra
Jared Allen-Idaho State
Tony Romo-Eastern Illinois
Joe Flacco-Delaware
Otis Sistrunk-University of Mars
Posted on 1/9/22 at 11:14 am to RD Dawg
quote:
Sure and never said otherwise there just weren't many in the south and HBCU's were a more comfortable alternative to many AA's.I
I get it. But you said they had fewer options. They did not. Black players have been playing Major College football since at least the '60s. I agree due to racism that it was tougher...but in another 60 years people will be saying it was tougher in the 2020s than in 2080, probably. The narrative might be that black athletes had to play in P5 conferences or they might be ignored for opportunities in the NFL and therefore could not risk playing for HBCUs. There are no perfect situations, nor will there ever be.
quote:It is a great case. But, I said small colleges or HBCUs.
Once again going back 40+ years to give examples of HBCU players succeeding isn't much of a case.
However, here is a list of players from HBCUs in the NFL as of 2021:
AFC WEST
Las Vegas Raiders
Brandon Parker, T (North Carolina A&T)
Los Angeles Chargers
Ryan Smith, DB (North Carolina Central)
Cleveland Browns
Montrel Meander, LB (Grambling State)
Jamie Gillan, P (Arkansas-Pine Bluff)
AFC SOUTH
Houston Texans
Tytus Howard, OL (Alabama State)
Indianapolis Colts
Darius Leonard, LB (South Carolina State)
Grover Stewart, DT (Albany State)
Tennessee Titans
Chester Rogers, WR (Grambling State)
NFC EAST
Philadelphia Eagles
Javon Hargrave, DT (South Carolina State)
NFC NORTH
Chicago Bears
Lachavious Simmons, OL (Tennessee State)
Tarik Cohen, RB (North Carolina A&T)
Detroit Lions
Bobby Price, DB (Norfolk State University)
NFC SOUTH
Carolina Panthers
Darryl Johnson, DE (North Carolina A&T)
Trent Scott, T (Grambling State)
Trenton Cannon, RB (Virginia State)
New Orleans Saints
Terron Armstead, T (Arkansas-Pine Bluff)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Nick Leverett, G (North Carolina Central)
NFC WEST
Arizona Cardinals
Joshua Miles, T (Morgan State)
HBCU Legends
I guess somebody should have warned them that they were ruining their career chances when they went to HBCU's.
This post was edited on 1/9/22 at 11:30 am
Posted on 1/9/22 at 11:16 am to RD Dawg
Again. I am not arguing that it is a great alternative that should be taken. I am arguing against the poster that said they were killing their chances at an NFL career.
Posted on 1/9/22 at 11:27 am to FearlessFreep
Sistrunk was a hoss! I was never an Oakland Raiders fan, but I admired the way a lot of their players approached the game.
My all time favorite wide receiver was Fred Biletnikoff.
My all time favorite wide receiver was Fred Biletnikoff.
Posted on 1/9/22 at 11:41 am to DawgsLife
You didn't say the exact same thing as I did. Nowhere in your post did you acknowledge that starting out at a small school, whether HBCU or otherwise, is a sub-optimal choice in terms of an NFL career. And sure, Jones and Romo played in the NFL and made a lot of money, but they would have made MORE money had they played in a major conference. The money lost due to being an UDFA vs a high-round pick doesn't get recovered. It is lost.
And this doesn't even address the possibility of quality players who played at small schools but never even made it to being a 14th round pick or got picked up as an UDFA. The fact that such stars as Jones and Romo barely got a chance themselves suggests that lesser (but still quality) players wouldn't get any chance at all.
I agree with you that playing at a small school doesn't ruin your chances. But it does harm them. Do you disagree with that?
And this doesn't even address the possibility of quality players who played at small schools but never even made it to being a 14th round pick or got picked up as an UDFA. The fact that such stars as Jones and Romo barely got a chance themselves suggests that lesser (but still quality) players wouldn't get any chance at all.
I agree with you that playing at a small school doesn't ruin your chances. But it does harm them. Do you disagree with that?
Posted on 1/9/22 at 12:11 pm to Sonofthetruth
More like this'll be remembered as a trivia year 15-20 years down the line
Posted on 1/9/22 at 12:13 pm to HamzooReb
quote:
These kids are ruining their potential NFL careers by going to a shite school.
No they aren’t. Jerry Rice came out of Mississippi Valley State in the 80s, I think the pros will find these former 5 stars at a HBCU. They will transfer when Deion gets a HC at a P5.
The truth of what they are most likely destroying is HBCU future recruitment. Once they go there and document that it isn’t all 5 star accommodation in comparison to p5 programs or even some amazing high school, no one will want to go.
Posted on 1/9/22 at 3:13 pm to Mirthomatic
quote:
You didn't say the exact same thing as I did. Nowhere in your post did you acknowledge that starting out at a small school, whether HBCU or otherwise, is a sub-optimal choice in terms of an NFL career.
You know what is funny? You have no idea what anybody said. Nowhere in my post did I say that it was an optimal way to star.
Read it again, very slowly. I said that starting out was not a career killer. Yet here you are wanting to argue that point. now, if you want to disagree with my post, then disagree with my post. but don't start twisting my words and making me say things I didn't say.
quote:Come on dude. Seriously? Then give us your take on Tom Brady being a 7th round pick.
And this doesn't even address the possibility of quality players who played at small schools but never even made it to being a 14th round pick or got picked up as an UDFA. The fact that such stars as Jones and Romo barely got a chance themselves suggests that lesser (but still quality) players wouldn't get any chance at all.
He played at michigan, so you don't think that maybe....juuuuust maybe sometimes players might not be scouted correctly.
Okay. Let me put it to you even slower.
I never said that it was a good career path. I said it would not kill an NFL career. The fact that those payers not only made it in the NFL but flourished backs my point perfectly.
You don't even understand or know the point you are arguing against!
Posted on 1/9/22 at 3:14 pm to FayetteNAM
Careful. They are going to argue that you think that is the best way to go to the NFL.
Posted on 1/9/22 at 3:20 pm to Mirthomatic
quote:
And sure, Jones and Romo played in the NFL and made a lot of money, but they would have made MORE money had they played in a major conference. The money lost due to being an UDFA vs a high-round pick doesn't get recovered. It is lost.
quote:
And this doesn't even address the possibility of quality players who played at small schools but never even made it to being a 14th round pick or got picked up as an UDFA. The fact that such stars as Jones and Romo barely got a chance themselves suggests that lesser (but still quality) players wouldn't get any chance at all.
AGAIN.....All I said was that going to a HBCU is not a carer killer. And THIS is your argument?
So tell me. Does going to a HBCU keep you from being in the NFL? because that is what this is about.
If you think it is a career killer we can argue from there.
Reading Is Fundamental
ETA
Don't down vote me. Crap. Be a man and argue against my point. Don't make points up against an argument that was never made, then hide behind a down vote when it is pointed out.
This post was edited on 1/9/22 at 3:30 pm
Posted on 1/9/22 at 4:08 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
You know what is funny? You have no idea what anybody said. Nowhere in my post did I say that it was an optimal way to star.
Is it funny because nowhere in any of my posts did I allege that you said it was an optimal way to start? Are strawmen funny? (In the Wizard of Oz, I guess)
I never said you said it was an optimal way to start. I said you never acknowledged it was sub-optimal. I understood that you were arguing against the claim by OP that doing so would ruin their careers. But I was pointing out that, while that is true, it still would very likely HARM their careers. That latter point was never addressed by you in your previous posts.
quote:
Come on dude. Seriously? Then give us your take on Tom Brady being a 7th round pick. He played at michigan, so you don't think that maybe....juuuuust maybe sometimes players might not be scouted correctly.
Tom Brady? Are you serious? First, he was picked in the 6th round, not the 7th. Second, are you familiar at all with his stats in college? In four years at UM, his highest yardage total was 2,427. His highest TD total was 16. He didn't have great measurables, and he didn't have anything close to the kind of on-the-field production that could have predicted what he would become.
The one thing he had going for him was that he was winning at a high level, against NFL-bound competition. If he had gone the small-school route, he would not even have had that mark in his favor.
In fact, if he had gone to a small school and performed as he did, not only would he likely not have been drafted, he probably would never even have been given the chance as an UDFA. So yes, that decision probably would have ruined his career.
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