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re: With Mike Leach as our new HC. What you guys think he will do after no spring.
Posted on 9/10/20 at 1:05 pm to Tridentds
Posted on 9/10/20 at 1:05 pm to Tridentds
quote:
Enjoy the first 2 years with Leach, they will be fun. Years 3 and 4 will be flat and his shtick will get tiresome and no longer be that funny.
Year 5 is when he really starts to alienate the admin and they start figuring out how to get rid of him.
Like I said, you have 2 solid years of fun ahead of you.
^^^Aggie who grew tired of losing to him when he was at Texas Tech.
I'd be worried about Jimbo's flatness and his schtick if I were you.
Posted on 9/10/20 at 5:07 pm to MullenBoys
quote:
With Mike Leach as our new HC. What you guys think he will do after no spring
It's hard to predict what will happen this year but Mike Leach is a damn good coach and a great hire. I've been following his teams for years. He knows how to win football games.
This post was edited on 9/10/20 at 10:36 pm
Posted on 9/12/20 at 8:01 am to MullenBoys
I often wonder if you truly believe that you know what you are talking about when it comes to MSU football. I always appreciate the effort, but more often than not, you don’t know what you are talking about, at all.
Come on man, google Joe Lee Dunn. Ran the 3-3-5 at MSU in the late 90s and had the #1 defense in the country in 1999. So the one and only time MSU had a DC run the 3-3-5, we had the #1 defense in the country. It may not work out this time around under Arnett, but that will not be because of the scheme. The scheme is proven to work, don’t trust me, trust history.
I’ll give you this and only this, MSU does always have D-lineman, but that’s all I can give you. Have you read up on the 3-3-5 at all? You have 3 down lineman, yes, 1 nose tackle, and two DE’s. The DE’s however, are bigger guys, not rangy pass rushers, think of them as run stopping DE’s. At the next level, Linebackers, you have a traditional Mike, and then a Sam and a Will. The Will is more of a coverage backer, think of it as a linebacker/safety hybrid, that can play in the box, step back into coverage, and also rush off the edge. The Sam is essentially the 4th d-lineman, he plays on the line standing up, must be an exceptional pass rusher, first and foremost, but also plays a big role in run stopping, and coverage is a tertiary responsibility. This is the position that Montez Sweat would play in this Defense. Our starter at the Sam is former top 100 4-star Alabama DE signee Jordan Davis. He was the #1 JUCO DE in America last year. He is a DL playing “linebacker”. So you have 3 DL with their hand on the ground, a hybrid OLB/DE standing up on the line, and then a Mike in the middle, with a hybrid OLB/Safety at the Will. Call the positions what you will, but at any given time we have 4 DL in on D.
Also, the worst thing you said, was that we have several good enough corners to do what we do best. CB is our thinnest, youngest, and most worrisome position on either side. We have Martin Emerson(true soph) as the only proven guy and starter in that position group. We lost our best CB from last year(Dantzler) on day 2 of the draft. We then lost Jarrian Jones to transfer and Tyler Williams to opt out. Dantzler, Jones, Williams and Emerson received about 99% of the meaningful snaps at CB last year, and we lost 3 of those 4. Outside of Emerson, we have 3 guys that are reported to fill out the 2 deep at CB, Emmanuel Forbes(4 star TRUE freshman that weighs 160 soaking wet), Esaias Furdge(RS-SO who has never played an SEC snap and had exactly 1 P5 offer, MSU) and then Malik Sanders (Junior walk on from a JUCO after signing with UMASS out of high school and then transferring to JUCO after his FR year). Long story short, we do not have good or even good enough corners, it is far and a way our biggest question mark going into the season. .
quote:
A 3-3-5 in the SEC won’t work, trust me. Typical Leach, score a lot but give up a lot. Explain to me wtf he is thinking hiring an “Up and coming DC” that runs a 3-3-5 in the SEC?
Come on man, google Joe Lee Dunn. Ran the 3-3-5 at MSU in the late 90s and had the #1 defense in the country in 1999. So the one and only time MSU had a DC run the 3-3-5, we had the #1 defense in the country. It may not work out this time around under Arnett, but that will not be because of the scheme. The scheme is proven to work, don’t trust me, trust history.
quote:
ETA: If there is one thing MSU always has are D-Linemen. Why on earth do you shave them down in a 3-3-5 defense? We have several corners good enough to do what we do best. Stop the run and put pressure on the QB and take our chances
I’ll give you this and only this, MSU does always have D-lineman, but that’s all I can give you. Have you read up on the 3-3-5 at all? You have 3 down lineman, yes, 1 nose tackle, and two DE’s. The DE’s however, are bigger guys, not rangy pass rushers, think of them as run stopping DE’s. At the next level, Linebackers, you have a traditional Mike, and then a Sam and a Will. The Will is more of a coverage backer, think of it as a linebacker/safety hybrid, that can play in the box, step back into coverage, and also rush off the edge. The Sam is essentially the 4th d-lineman, he plays on the line standing up, must be an exceptional pass rusher, first and foremost, but also plays a big role in run stopping, and coverage is a tertiary responsibility. This is the position that Montez Sweat would play in this Defense. Our starter at the Sam is former top 100 4-star Alabama DE signee Jordan Davis. He was the #1 JUCO DE in America last year. He is a DL playing “linebacker”. So you have 3 DL with their hand on the ground, a hybrid OLB/DE standing up on the line, and then a Mike in the middle, with a hybrid OLB/Safety at the Will. Call the positions what you will, but at any given time we have 4 DL in on D.
Also, the worst thing you said, was that we have several good enough corners to do what we do best. CB is our thinnest, youngest, and most worrisome position on either side. We have Martin Emerson(true soph) as the only proven guy and starter in that position group. We lost our best CB from last year(Dantzler) on day 2 of the draft. We then lost Jarrian Jones to transfer and Tyler Williams to opt out. Dantzler, Jones, Williams and Emerson received about 99% of the meaningful snaps at CB last year, and we lost 3 of those 4. Outside of Emerson, we have 3 guys that are reported to fill out the 2 deep at CB, Emmanuel Forbes(4 star TRUE freshman that weighs 160 soaking wet), Esaias Furdge(RS-SO who has never played an SEC snap and had exactly 1 P5 offer, MSU) and then Malik Sanders (Junior walk on from a JUCO after signing with UMASS out of high school and then transferring to JUCO after his FR year). Long story short, we do not have good or even good enough corners, it is far and a way our biggest question mark going into the season. .
Posted on 9/12/20 at 8:52 am to holdmydak
If you're that thin in the secondary then that's a case against running a 3-3-5, I would think.
These days there are so many sub packages and different blitzes that all of the defenses run together.
There are times that I would look at our d last year and it would look unrecognizable as to what formation we were in. It was supposed to be a 3-4 but it wouldnt look like it was. And that's not sub packages. Just our base 3-4 would look different.
These days there are so many sub packages and different blitzes that all of the defenses run together.
There are times that I would look at our d last year and it would look unrecognizable as to what formation we were in. It was supposed to be a 3-4 but it wouldnt look like it was. And that's not sub packages. Just our base 3-4 would look different.
This post was edited on 9/12/20 at 8:56 am
Posted on 9/12/20 at 10:44 am to Tigerpride18
It’s all about confusion. I know exactly what you mean though, sometimes it’s hard recognizing what the hell a defense is running and who is lined up where. In the end, it’s all window dressing, the “package” may look exotic, but in reality it’s a base package with exotic alignments. Say you have 4-5 base plays, but you run them with 10 different alignments for each, to the offense, it looks as if you have 40-50 plays, and when you can run the same plays with different alignments And personnel assignments, it just keeps the O guessing, which is the end goal. When they are seeing different alignments play after play, they are focused more on deciphering the big picture of the play, and it becomes 1000% easier to sneak in blitz from this hybrid guy or that hybrid guy, who might be aligned showing one position, but in reality are playing another for that play. When you are not only trying to decipher the alignment and what base play it is masking, but also trying to decipher which players are going to drop back into which position after the snap, you are suddenly making a lot of assumptions while the play clock is ticking, and you know what they say about assumptions.
That’s what Arnett’s 3-3-5 is all about though, it’s like a puzzle that the offense and specifically, QB, have to decipher every play. If they miss one piece of the puzzle, the defense will slip through the open crack and make a big play. It’s all about, who is in run stop? Who is blitzing? Who is in coverage? Every play you mask multiple players true identities and keep the opponent guessing. You mix it up a lot and you make the QB think, the more the QB thinks rather than reacts, the more mistakes he will make, and mistakes lead to turnovers, which win games. It puts pressure on the OC and QB to be perfect in their pre play breakdowns of the D. Get’s them out of a groove, and slows the tempo. It can be a way for inferior talent to make up for the talent gap through masked schemes and confusion. This is even easier to execute as a defense if you have multiple hybrid type guys on defense, and that’s exactly what Arnett’s 3-3-5 is all about.
You have your 2-3 straight up DL guys that have their hand on the ground 95% of snaps and very rarely drop into coverage(only to cover for a blitz from the back 7-8). Then you have your traditional Mike, then, playing on the strong side line, you have a hybrid DE/OLB that can cover, but primarily run stop and rush the passer of the edge. Lastly at LB, you have the OLB/S hybrid that primarily stays in the box, but can also rush the QB and also step back into coverage like a safety. In the defensive backfield, you have your 2 traditional corners and a FS and SS that aren’t so traditional but still primarily cover and also step down in run stop and blitz from their positions. Finally, you have a 5th DB that is another S/OLB hybrid. So in the end you have 4-5 guys on any given play that could be lined up acting like they are playing one position, but slide into another after the snap.
Just as offenses have moved away from traditional schemes, defenses are too. Unless you have a huge talent advantage, you can’t just line up in the 4-3 or 3-4 and disguise nothing while running cover 3, 2 and 1 in predictable situations.
Offense today is all about executing with precision, getting the defense off balance by being balanced offensively, and dictating the tempo. Defenses have adjusted. Rather than playing bend, don’t break, vanilla defense while waiting for the offense to make a mistake, defenses have countered. Now it’s all about forcing errors in offensive precision by making the offense think and hopefully guess, and mixing in exotic alignments to keep the offense from staying balanced and keeping their desired tempo.
When offenses were ground and pound, defenses were bend but don’t break, the ying to the offenses yang. If you are gonna try to have 10 minute, 15 play yard-by-yard drives, I’ll let you, eventually you will make one mistake, get behind the chains or fumble the ball, giving me the ball back. Today, offenses go quick, take shots, look for the quickest route to the endzone possible. As a defense, if they are swinging for the fences, you have to throw the curveball rather than pitch low and away fastballs to contact. It’s all about the big play on O and D, the defense only has to make a couple to win the game, whereas the offense is expected to make them play in and play out. When you show all different kinds of stuff, the O can’t always be sure what coverage or rush they will see, if they get one piece of the puzzle wrong, the D has an opportunity for a big play.
The only question is, can the confusion of the scheme itself cause enough offensive errors to make up for a questionable at best group of DB’s? Our DL and LB will be fine, it’s all on the DB’s and play calling. I think it will be a tough year for the MSU Defense, but I also think Arnett is going to turn out to be a great DC, he will just need a couple years to get it clicking execution and personal-fit wise.
That’s what Arnett’s 3-3-5 is all about though, it’s like a puzzle that the offense and specifically, QB, have to decipher every play. If they miss one piece of the puzzle, the defense will slip through the open crack and make a big play. It’s all about, who is in run stop? Who is blitzing? Who is in coverage? Every play you mask multiple players true identities and keep the opponent guessing. You mix it up a lot and you make the QB think, the more the QB thinks rather than reacts, the more mistakes he will make, and mistakes lead to turnovers, which win games. It puts pressure on the OC and QB to be perfect in their pre play breakdowns of the D. Get’s them out of a groove, and slows the tempo. It can be a way for inferior talent to make up for the talent gap through masked schemes and confusion. This is even easier to execute as a defense if you have multiple hybrid type guys on defense, and that’s exactly what Arnett’s 3-3-5 is all about.
You have your 2-3 straight up DL guys that have their hand on the ground 95% of snaps and very rarely drop into coverage(only to cover for a blitz from the back 7-8). Then you have your traditional Mike, then, playing on the strong side line, you have a hybrid DE/OLB that can cover, but primarily run stop and rush the passer of the edge. Lastly at LB, you have the OLB/S hybrid that primarily stays in the box, but can also rush the QB and also step back into coverage like a safety. In the defensive backfield, you have your 2 traditional corners and a FS and SS that aren’t so traditional but still primarily cover and also step down in run stop and blitz from their positions. Finally, you have a 5th DB that is another S/OLB hybrid. So in the end you have 4-5 guys on any given play that could be lined up acting like they are playing one position, but slide into another after the snap.
Just as offenses have moved away from traditional schemes, defenses are too. Unless you have a huge talent advantage, you can’t just line up in the 4-3 or 3-4 and disguise nothing while running cover 3, 2 and 1 in predictable situations.
Offense today is all about executing with precision, getting the defense off balance by being balanced offensively, and dictating the tempo. Defenses have adjusted. Rather than playing bend, don’t break, vanilla defense while waiting for the offense to make a mistake, defenses have countered. Now it’s all about forcing errors in offensive precision by making the offense think and hopefully guess, and mixing in exotic alignments to keep the offense from staying balanced and keeping their desired tempo.
When offenses were ground and pound, defenses were bend but don’t break, the ying to the offenses yang. If you are gonna try to have 10 minute, 15 play yard-by-yard drives, I’ll let you, eventually you will make one mistake, get behind the chains or fumble the ball, giving me the ball back. Today, offenses go quick, take shots, look for the quickest route to the endzone possible. As a defense, if they are swinging for the fences, you have to throw the curveball rather than pitch low and away fastballs to contact. It’s all about the big play on O and D, the defense only has to make a couple to win the game, whereas the offense is expected to make them play in and play out. When you show all different kinds of stuff, the O can’t always be sure what coverage or rush they will see, if they get one piece of the puzzle wrong, the D has an opportunity for a big play.
The only question is, can the confusion of the scheme itself cause enough offensive errors to make up for a questionable at best group of DB’s? Our DL and LB will be fine, it’s all on the DB’s and play calling. I think it will be a tough year for the MSU Defense, but I also think Arnett is going to turn out to be a great DC, he will just need a couple years to get it clicking execution and personal-fit wise.
Posted on 9/12/20 at 11:04 am to MNW
quote:
imagine how bad its going to be for the team that hired a career position coach
Every head coach was a career position coach before becoming head coach.
Posted on 9/12/20 at 11:11 am to Tigerpride18
quote:
There are times that I would look at our d last year and it would look unrecognizable as to what formation we were in. It was supposed to be a 3-4 but it wouldnt look like it was. And that's not sub packages. Just our base 3-4 would look different.
Sometimes a 3-4 will have three DL and three LBs on the line of scrimmage. At the snap two of the LBS (or one LB and one DL) will drop into coverage. The QB will see blitz but never know where it will come from.
Posted on 9/13/20 at 7:48 am to ManBearSharkReb
Leach scored 34 points that game and has a winning record against Ole Miss from his Texas tech days. Whatever Ole Miss did against him defensively it didn’t work very well very often.
This post was edited on 9/13/20 at 7:51 am
Posted on 9/13/20 at 11:17 am to MullenBoys
quote:
He is the passing guy all day but in his first year, especially missing spring, will he use Kylin Hlll more than he usually does in a running game or will he stick with the air raid and put him in open situations catching the ball?
He will not abandon what he has done all his coaching life and what he knows best. He will throw the ball all over the field and make youdefend it.
Posted on 9/13/20 at 11:26 am to TheCheshireHog
quote:
Nothing about his history even remotely indicates Hill will run the ball much. Your rushing attack is going to plummet to the bottom of the NCAA rankings so you should prepare yourself for that now and just be ok with living and dying by the pass.
The diff is that Leach has never had a RB even close to Hill. Hill could have big lanes too with everyone playing Pass D.
Posted on 9/13/20 at 11:27 am to GetmorewithLes
Leach was kind of giddy yesterday talking about Shrader at the slot receiver. He thinks all of the skills are there, but mentioned that he needs to get into "receiver shape". Leach's receivers average about 8 miles a day on the practice field, and Shrader is finding out the hard way how much running that is.
Leach used the word "explosive" two times in the post-scrimmage press conference yesterday. He said that Shrader was big, fast, had good hands, was difficult to tackle, and was a really good blocker.
Leach used the word "explosive" two times in the post-scrimmage press conference yesterday. He said that Shrader was big, fast, had good hands, was difficult to tackle, and was a really good blocker.
Posted on 9/13/20 at 1:39 pm to Allyn McKeen
quote:
Leach was kind of giddy yesterday talking about Shrader at the slot receiver. He thinks all of the skills are there, but mentioned that he needs to get into "receiver shape". Leach's receivers average about 8 miles a day on the practice field, and Shrader is finding out the hard way how much running that is.
Leach is like a body puncher in boxing. He will wear a team out with dinks and dunks and if you dont have depth and conditioning he will start gashing your secondary. Like I said earlier he will make you cover the whole field.
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