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re: Where does LSU19 rank in terms of GOAT vs
Posted on 5/24/20 at 6:26 pm to 3down10
Posted on 5/24/20 at 6:26 pm to 3down10
I agree that it isn’t just about NFL players, it is about the team, a point I made about Miami in another thread. But the draft doesn’t tell us how they did in the NFL, but it does tell us something about the perception of talent while they were in college. And no, the fact is Nebraska did not face the same level of competition. They just didn’t. By every metric, overall the teams that LSU faced were better than the overall teams Nebraska faced. You treat margin of victory as some sort of talisman for your argument, but as I have said, it is only one metric, and not even the best one.
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Posted on 5/24/20 at 6:28 pm to 3down10
quote:
How many sports writers are out there?
Oh. This is rich.
Bama fan NOW wants to put credence into the Media writers that they abhorred that kept them from claiming past titles.
“Northern elite media always picked mich state/Nd Over us; let’s just claim it in the media guide”.
This post was edited on 5/24/20 at 6:34 pm
Posted on 5/24/20 at 6:30 pm to tigerinridgeland
quote:
You treat margin of victory as some sort of talisman for your argument, but as I have said, it is only one metric, and not even the best one.
Because it's the only one that isn't in favor of LSU and that means he would have to admit that LSU had the best season. I hope there's some sort of decision in 2020 that comes down to Bama and Clemson just to watch this one try to weasel his way out of this ridiculous argument.
Posted on 5/24/20 at 6:32 pm to tigerinridgeland
quote:
I agree that it isn’t just about NFL players, it is about the team, a point I made about Miami in another thread. But the draft doesn’t tell us how they did in the NFL, but it does tell us something about the perception of talent while they were in college. And no, the fact is Nebraska did not face the same level of competition. They just didn’t. By every metric, overall the teams that LSU faced were better than the overall teams Nebraska faced. You treat margin of victory as some sort of talisman for your argument, but as I have said, it is only one metric, and not even the best one.
You keep giving the longest winded paragraphs just to keep saying LSU had a stronger SoS. Don't disagree, having an extra 3 games of good games helps a ton.
But you can also say the same thing about recent teams over the past few years. 2009 Alabama, 2010 Auburn, maybe 2013 FSU, not sure. Lots of people drafted, higher SoS with 14 game seasons, blah blah blah.
So there has to be more to the equation, otherwise your fellow LSU fans wouldn't be pointing out that nobody made those arguments for those teams.
And the reason why is MoV. And where that equates directly to LSU is: Your defense was not great last year. If it had been great, you would have had a crazy good MoV similiar to 95 Nebraska, which had both a great offense and a great defense.
This post was edited on 5/24/20 at 6:33 pm
Posted on 5/24/20 at 6:34 pm to TigerLunatik
quote:
Because it's the only one that isn't in favor of LSU and that means he would have to admit that LSU had the best season. I hope there's some sort of decision in 2020 that comes down to Bama and Clemson just to watch this one try to weasel his way out of this ridiculous argument.
The lack of MoV highlights LSU was not a great team on both sides of the ball and that your defense was lacking.
Posted on 5/24/20 at 6:36 pm to dstone12
quote:
Oh. This is rich.
Bama fan NOW wants to put credence into the Media writers that they abhorred that kept them from claiming past titles.
“Northern elite media always picked mich state/Nd Over us; let’s just claim it in the media guide”.
What? I'm not the one naming articles, you guys are.
I'm just pointing out that in this day and age, 7 articles is a very small % of the sports writers out there.
Posted on 5/24/20 at 6:37 pm to 3down10
You seem to be doing as much damage control, err, arguing Against it as you claim LSU fans are saying that it is the best ever.
Almost as if you think it’s rightfully a title for you to give.
=Entitlement.
Almost as if you think it’s rightfully a title for you to give.
=Entitlement.
Posted on 5/24/20 at 6:39 pm to Bbobalou
1st and Always 1st
Posted on 5/24/20 at 6:41 pm to 3down10
quote:
The lack of MoV highlights LSU was not a great team on both sides of the ball
Do you think LSU should have been ranked behind Ohio State and Clemson going into the playoffs this past season?
Posted on 5/24/20 at 6:45 pm to 3down10
quote:
Long winded
quote:
You keep giving the longest winded paragraphs just to keep saying LSU had a stronger SoS. Don't disagree, having an extra 3 games of good games helps a ton. But you can also say the same thing about recent teams over the past few years. 2009 Alabama, 2010 Auburn, maybe 2013 FSU, not sure. Lots of people drafted, higher SoS with 14 game seasons, blah blah blah. So there has to be more to the equation, otherwise your fellow LSU fans wouldn't be pointing out that nobody made those arguments for those teams. And the reason why is MoV. And where that equates directly to LSU is: Your defense was not great last year. If it had been great, you would have had a crazy good MoV similiar to 95 Nebraska, which had both a great offense and a great defense
Posted on 5/24/20 at 6:51 pm to RTRcdub
quote:
Not only were they struggle wins. They were struggle wins against teams during the biggest downtime in SEC football. Auburn gave them a hell of a game with a freshman QB, Bama had half the defense and the QB on crutches for half of the season, Florida gave them a hell of a game with a backup QB, and Georgia was the most overrated team in the SEC (lost to SC in Athens). The only healthy team they played was Clemson, so hats off for beating them, but LSU was far from being the GOAT. Bring on the stupidass “melt” comments. Just stating facts.
Posted on 5/24/20 at 6:53 pm to TigerLunatik
quote:
Again, it was just from the first page of a Google search. Plus, it shouldn’t matter since you say only LSU fans are the one saying it.
As usual, you are getting curb stomped in this discussion. It's hysterical.
My first page of google results.
1st result talks about a bunch of different teams.
2nd is the bleacher report by some young guy probably recently out of college. Not credible.
3rd link is the one that was some yahoo fan vote thing.
4th link is a fansided article, that quotes rankings from time of game in it's argument. Not credible.
5th is a Dennis Dodd article that asks the question while talking about other things.
6th is a terrible ranking that does put 2019 LSU #1...right behind 1894 Yale and 2018 Clemson. Why? Because # of wins is apparently the most important thing. Not credible.
7th is a LSU site
8th is a SI article about your offense being the greatest ever
9th is some weird Dan Woken article before the national championship.
Posted on 5/24/20 at 7:00 pm to TigerLunatik
quote:
Do you think LSU should have been ranked behind Ohio State and Clemson going into the playoffs this past season?
I don't think it really matters as long as you are in the top4.
But I'm sure you're talking about SoS and I do think SoS is very important when ranking teams. But now you're talking about SoS relative to other teams in the same season. Not trying to compare a 12 game vs a 15 game season in which the 15 game season almost by default comes out on top. The same way 2009 Alabama does with it's 14 win season.
If that is the way we do it, then we pretty much only allow teams since 2014 in the discussion because all previous teams weren't able to match.
And if that is how it's to be done, why did it just now start and not in 2009 when Alabama went 14-0 or all the other teams that did the same things?
Posted on 5/24/20 at 7:02 pm to 3down10
MoV is a factor, but again, level of competition matters. Nebraska did not face the same level of competition over the course of the season. The ranked teams they beat by such big margins were not as good as the rankings made them seem. They played weak schedules. If you play weaker teams your MoV should be higher.
I am not saying LSU is automatically the best team ever. I am saying it isn’t clear cut. They had the best season ever, and that isn’t really open to serious debate. No other team has beaten as many top 10 or top 25 teams in a single season.
A single metric like MoV is rarely the best way to evaluate because, used in isolation, it doesn’t measure the level of competition. LSU’s defense did struggle at times, partly because of injuries. But LSU dominated 3 teams that were likely better than any a team than any team Nebraska faced, with the possible exception of Florida, and even that isn’t certain as to Florida. You seem to think I think only SOS is a proper measure, but like MoV, it is a single reference point, not the whole picture. To evaluate the best team of all time, multiple reference points need to be used. You have yet to prove your point beyond one reference point.
I am not saying LSU is automatically the best team ever. I am saying it isn’t clear cut. They had the best season ever, and that isn’t really open to serious debate. No other team has beaten as many top 10 or top 25 teams in a single season.
A single metric like MoV is rarely the best way to evaluate because, used in isolation, it doesn’t measure the level of competition. LSU’s defense did struggle at times, partly because of injuries. But LSU dominated 3 teams that were likely better than any a team than any team Nebraska faced, with the possible exception of Florida, and even that isn’t certain as to Florida. You seem to think I think only SOS is a proper measure, but like MoV, it is a single reference point, not the whole picture. To evaluate the best team of all time, multiple reference points need to be used. You have yet to prove your point beyond one reference point.
This post was edited on 5/24/20 at 7:04 pm
Posted on 5/24/20 at 7:03 pm to dstone12
quote:
You seem to be doing as much damage control, err, arguing Against it as you claim LSU fans are saying that it is the best ever.
Almost as if you think it’s rightfully a title for you to give.
=Entitlement.
People have been saying 95 Nebraska is the GOAT since...1996.
Or before that, since 1971...Nebraska.
Alabama has the most, it doesn't have the GOAT. I'm fine with that. I'm fine saying 2019 LSU was a greater season that any Alabama has had.
So find some other shitty scapegoat to hide behind.
This post was edited on 5/24/20 at 7:04 pm
Posted on 5/24/20 at 7:03 pm to 3down10
quote:
But I'm sure you're talking about SoS and I do think SoS is very important when ranking teams.
Yet you're choosing a tream that played a MUCH weaker schedule.
quote:
why did it just now start and not in 2009 when Alabama went 14-0 or all the other teams that did the same things?
NO ONE has EVER done the things that LSU did. That's the whole point!
Posted on 5/24/20 at 7:10 pm to TigerLunatik
quote:
Yet you're choosing a tream that played a MUCH weaker schedule.
You played 3 extra games. Your schedule in relation to the number of games is not that much more difficult. If this is the way we do it, then again you are just basically eliminating every none playoff team from the equation.
So GOAT is only allowed among teams from 2014+. What you have is the greatest playoff era season.
quote:
NO ONE has EVER done the things that LSU did. That's the whole point!
Alabama had the tougher schedule over 95 Nebraska and was undefeated, won more awards, blah blah blah.
What they didn't have is what I point out over and over again, MoV. Only with 2009 Alabama, it was the lack of offense that caused it.
Posted on 5/24/20 at 7:28 pm to TigerLunatik
I wonder why he doesn’t claim 1944 Army as tGOAT.
56.0 PPG
3.9 PPG allowed
Their closest game was 16 points?
All of his arguments point to 1944 Army. No?
56.0 PPG
3.9 PPG allowed
Their closest game was 16 points?
All of his arguments point to 1944 Army. No?
Posted on 5/24/20 at 7:48 pm to 3down10
quote:
My first page of google results. 1st result talks about a bunch of different teams. 2nd is the bleacher report by some young guy probably recently out of college. Not credible. 3rd link is the one that was some yahoo fan vote thing. 4th link is a fansided article, that quotes rankings from time of game in it's argument. Not credible. 5th is a Dennis Dodd article that asks the question while talking about other things. 6th is a terrible ranking that does put 2019 LSU #1...right behind 1894 Yale and 2018 Clemson. Why? Because # of wins is apparently the most important thing. Not credible. 7th is a LSU site 8th is a SI article about your offense being the greatest ever 9th is some weird Dan Woken article before the national championship.
Don’t you wish tuna used this much effort? He wouldn’t have fumbled on the first drive. We wouldn’t even be talking about this. LSU would only be the 2nd or 3rd best of all time behind Nebraska and Miami.
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:05 pm to The_Ultimate_Warrior
quote:
I wonder why he doesn’t claim 1944 Army as tGOAT.
56.0 PPG
3.9 PPG allowed
Their closest game was 16 points?
All of his arguments point to 1944 Army. No?
You are familiar with what was going on during those years right?
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