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Posted on 5/11/17 at 3:52 pm to CarolinaGamecock99
Like things would be different in the sec East. The worst division in football last year. Mizzou came in and ran it for two years from the big 12 
Posted on 5/11/17 at 4:13 pm to SlowEasyConfident
I'm sure the guy with the Danny Ford sig will chime in.
But I want to make a point that seems pretty profound to me.
I've been watching college football a long time (yeah, I know lots of others have as well).
But there is a difference now. With these spread offenses, qb's are more important than ever.
They have to be able to hurt you both ways, running and passing, for it to have the full effect. But if you have the right qb, your offense cannot be stopped.
Alabama with all their talent usually only gets beat by dual threat qb's. As long as your offensive talent besides the qb is in the ball park with the defense in that regard.
You can take better talent and utterly stuff different kinds of offenses. A spread offense with a Manziel, Watson, Tebow, any guy like that is only stopped by the qb having a sub-par day. Unless the defensive talent utter dwarfs what the offense has, which is impossible for even Alabama to do against teams like Auburn, Ohio State, and the like.
So to me it all depends on how good Watson's replacement is. Because to beat Louisville this year, Jackson better have an off day, or you have to outscore them.
To go further than that, I actually think teams like Duke could duplicate what Clemson did, as far as making the playoff. Whether they have enough talent to slow down a team like Alabama I don't know. But I could see them going on a run with the right guy taking the snap.
Same goes for other teams the caliber of Pitt, Virginia Tech, NC State and the like. Not sure what offense those guys run, but my point is you don't have to have incredible talent level these days to be a big noise.
If you get the right qb.
But I want to make a point that seems pretty profound to me.
I've been watching college football a long time (yeah, I know lots of others have as well).
But there is a difference now. With these spread offenses, qb's are more important than ever.
They have to be able to hurt you both ways, running and passing, for it to have the full effect. But if you have the right qb, your offense cannot be stopped.
Alabama with all their talent usually only gets beat by dual threat qb's. As long as your offensive talent besides the qb is in the ball park with the defense in that regard.
You can take better talent and utterly stuff different kinds of offenses. A spread offense with a Manziel, Watson, Tebow, any guy like that is only stopped by the qb having a sub-par day. Unless the defensive talent utter dwarfs what the offense has, which is impossible for even Alabama to do against teams like Auburn, Ohio State, and the like.
So to me it all depends on how good Watson's replacement is. Because to beat Louisville this year, Jackson better have an off day, or you have to outscore them.
To go further than that, I actually think teams like Duke could duplicate what Clemson did, as far as making the playoff. Whether they have enough talent to slow down a team like Alabama I don't know. But I could see them going on a run with the right guy taking the snap.
Same goes for other teams the caliber of Pitt, Virginia Tech, NC State and the like. Not sure what offense those guys run, but my point is you don't have to have incredible talent level these days to be a big noise.
If you get the right qb.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 4:35 pm to ForeverGator
I thought he would struggle more last year too . If he can improve this year then I would start to change my mind about him. He could finish last in the east this year and be on track for what we all thought he would do.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 5:12 pm to theGarnetWay
quote:
And all we're saying is that our facilities are as good as other facilities. What of it?
Didn't your own AD say they wouldn't be as good?
I'm sorry - that it wouldn't have all the bells and whistles of other programs. But sure; it'll be the best because you say it will be.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 5:18 pm to IStillMissDanny
So it's not as good because we don't have a beta slide?
Roger
Roger
Posted on 5/11/17 at 5:29 pm to cardboardboxer
1. SC has a small population and a much smaller talent base than states like Florida, Georgia and Texas.
2. USC shares the state with Clemson, a team that just won the national championship and has historically beaten us like a stepchild.
3. USC is geographically close to SEC blue bloods like UGA, UF, UT, Auburn and Alabama who all have more history and tradition than us.
Based on these factors, I think our run with Spurrier is an anomaly. I think it's also a testament to just how good of a coach he was.
2. USC shares the state with Clemson, a team that just won the national championship and has historically beaten us like a stepchild.
3. USC is geographically close to SEC blue bloods like UGA, UF, UT, Auburn and Alabama who all have more history and tradition than us.
Based on these factors, I think our run with Spurrier is an anomaly. I think it's also a testament to just how good of a coach he was.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 5:48 pm to GetCocky11
Guys, can't we just agree there is lots of poverty across all of South Carolina?
Posted on 5/11/17 at 5:57 pm to theGarnetWay
South Carolina will be fine. They had a great coach... who retired a couple of years before he actually bothered to step down from the job.
Based on where the programs are right now I expect Arkansas to beat them this year but Bert has laid quite a few eggs in his time here.
Other then that I expect them to have a solid, if not awe inspiring, team this year. I am not sold on Moosechimp as a head coach but in this spot he's gold. He gives the fire and drive USC needs to regain their mojo.
7-8 wins and a decent bowl game, hopefully in their backyard, for the Gamecocks this year. A nice step forward, or perhaps I should say back to the past, for the program. Next year I think they put in a serious run at the East title and a top 20 finish.
Based on where the programs are right now I expect Arkansas to beat them this year but Bert has laid quite a few eggs in his time here.
Other then that I expect them to have a solid, if not awe inspiring, team this year. I am not sold on Moosechimp as a head coach but in this spot he's gold. He gives the fire and drive USC needs to regain their mojo.
7-8 wins and a decent bowl game, hopefully in their backyard, for the Gamecocks this year. A nice step forward, or perhaps I should say back to the past, for the program. Next year I think they put in a serious run at the East title and a top 20 finish.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 5:58 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
What does the Rant think Clemson's success will do to South Carolina's program, and how long does the Rant think it will take for South Carolina to be on top of that rivalry again? I guess ten years or more.
Really, the biggest thing that hurts South Carolina is recruiting in state and within the boarder states. With Clemson's recent success, we lost out on some very good recruits to Clemson and the latest example would be losing Xavier Thomas to Clemson. As far as the rivalry, it will depend on how Muschamp and his staff do in recruiting and developing the players. You don't have to have a roster full of 5 stars to be successful. I think as long as South Carolina can improve each year the recruiting will pick up and they can be more competitive. The state of the current program in a major work in progress but hopefully in 2-4 years, we can be competing for the SEC East.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 7:59 pm to Tillman
quote:
why hasn't SC been the better football program across time
I'll actually give you a somewhat reasonable answer to that question, a lot of factors to consider over history.
-Tillmanism: Clemson's founder had a grudge against what he viewed as the "elitists" at USC and other schools (The Citadel), during his time in office. He did a pretty good job defunding USC and thus USC became the smaller of the two main state schools.
(The effects of Tillman's past policies began to lessen post WW2 when USC began to rapidly expand as few Vet wanted to go to a military school like Clemson, SC became the largest university in the state again. During the era of the late 1940s through the 50s SC's win total vs Clemson significantly increased up until SC's departure of the ACC.)
-Being Independent for decades- Leaving the ACC and being independent set SC back facility wise for years in comparison to other schools by the 90s and early 2000s. Also pretty much destroyed the basketball program at the time. Basically 1970s when SC became independent you'll notice Clemson start racking up a significant numbers of wins over SC again.
-Fundraising- honestly I'll admit in the past Clemson fans seemed to care more about donating to the football program than USC graduates/fans, even if all they had to give was potatoes. Also Clemson has a bit more of a "football comes first" over other sports in comparison to SC.
So really I'd say the two largest factors would be Tillman's defunding policies of USC after the founding of his university and SC going independent are probably the greatest contributing factors to SC's lack of success/Clemson's win total over SC.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 8:20 pm to SirCocky
The folks in Clemson do what they have to in order to win. After the 56-20 thrashing in the 70's, their motto was never again. I was born in 1985 and, before 2009, the only times we won were in 87, 92, 94, 96, 01 and 06. That's pathetic.
If South Carolina has any chance of ever catching up in the series, we have to adopt a win at all costs mentality. That'll never happen, given our AD and the good ole boys on the BOT who think they know how to run a football program because they're millionaires.
If South Carolina has any chance of ever catching up in the series, we have to adopt a win at all costs mentality. That'll never happen, given our AD and the good ole boys on the BOT who think they know how to run a football program because they're millionaires.
This post was edited on 5/11/17 at 8:21 pm
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:08 pm to ForeverGator
quote:
was in Northern Georgia this past weekend. I felt like my IQ dropped a bit just because I was so close to Clemson.
given your high IQ, why did you think Clemson students are only from Pickens County, given it is a large state university that has students from all over the state and country? there are actually very few students at Clemson who grew up in Pickens County.
This post was edited on 5/11/17 at 10:09 pm
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:21 pm to Sunbeam
quote:
So to me it all depends on how good Watson's replacement is. Because to beat Louisville this year, Jackson better have an off day, or you have to outscore them.
All the hype about Jackson but Lville's 2nd best win last year was against 6-6 Wake Forest at home. Clemson had 5 turnovers, 4 in the 2nd half against Lville, and Lville ran 100 snaps on the game. Clemson was up 28-10 at half time before the turnover fest started.
They lost their best two WRs, their best TE, who played well against Clemson, and their starting RB, and their O-line was terrible 2nd half of last season. They have issues on defense and a new DC.
Clemson wasn't just a QB. Mike Williams may have been the best WR to ever play at Clemson and he was drafted prior to Watson. Gallman was one of the best ever Clemson RBs, and Legget was the best over Clemson TE. Clemson had one of the best defenses last year as well.
A team like Duke has occasionally had good QBs and offenses but was not good enough on defense to win consistently. What Clemson had this year was balance on offense between run and pass, and balance on offense and defense.
This post was edited on 5/11/17 at 10:25 pm
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:34 pm to SirCocky
quote:
-Tillmanism: Clemson's founder had a grudge against what he viewed as the "elitists" at USC and other schools (The Citadel), during his time in office. He did a pretty good job defunding USC and thus USC became the smaller of the two main state schools.
There is a lot of misinformation about Tillman out there. For starters, most people don't know that he was accepted into the U of South Carolina. I don't think there is any evidence that he was anti-SC, he just didn't think that an ag college at a liberal arts college made sense. He also isn't just the founder of Clemson. He was involved with Winthrop which started out as all female school (he was actually progressive on female education for his day), and SC State. Also, Clemson may not have even been founded if Thomas CLemson had not donated his land for an ag college. Uni of SC may still have an ag college today if not for Dr. Clemson.
Here is some info I found at the Clemson website:
Throughout the early 1890s, Tillman helped to establish Clemson College as an agricultural and mechanical college and Winthrop College, originally Winthrop Training School for Teachers, as an industrial school for women. As a young man, he had been accepted to the South Carolina College, but because of illness related to his eye and the events of the Civil War, Tillman never matriculated or received a college education. However, Tillman would later have an opportunity to aid in the establishment of not only Clemson University and Winthrop University, but also S.C. State University. Reluctantly, he ceased attacks on the Citadel, which he had called a “dude factory.”[8]
Tillman opposed using land-grant funds under the Morrill Act to create an agricultural department at the existing University of South Carolina, instead favoring the establishment of a separate land-grant college focusing on agricultural education and the practical sciences. He argued that
fuller investigation and study had taught me that the joining of an Agricultural Annex to an older Literary University had proven a failure in almost every case when where tried in the United States. The Michigan Agricultural College at Lansing and the Mississippi Agricultural College at Starkesville were so far in advance of any of the other hybrid institution.[9]
This post was edited on 5/11/17 at 10:40 pm
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:49 pm to SirCocky
quote:
Also Clemson has a bit more of a "football comes first" over other sports in comparison to SC.
I don't think this is true at all. I always see you guys pushing the narrative though. SC has only been to the NCAA tournament once since 2004, and Clemson has been as competitive over time in baseball as SC.
Clemson was in the soccer title game two season ago and elite 8 this year.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:54 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
every year
What?
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:55 pm to Tillman
I think SC's main issue in recruiting is Columbia isn't much different from various other cities with large universities that SC recruits against.
Baton Rouge, Knoxville, Raleigh, Talhassee, even smaller cities like Athens and Gainesville, are all pretty similar.
Clemson's setting is more unique compared to other universities with the proximity to the blue ridge mountains and the lake. It is a smaller college which appeals to a lot of recruits. If a recruit wants a college like Clemson, the main alternatives would be Va Tech, UVA, perhaps UNC, but Clemson has been more competitive in football than those over time.
Baton Rouge, Knoxville, Raleigh, Talhassee, even smaller cities like Athens and Gainesville, are all pretty similar.
Clemson's setting is more unique compared to other universities with the proximity to the blue ridge mountains and the lake. It is a smaller college which appeals to a lot of recruits. If a recruit wants a college like Clemson, the main alternatives would be Va Tech, UVA, perhaps UNC, but Clemson has been more competitive in football than those over time.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 11:52 pm to Tillman
i'm reading a good book about Pitchfork Ben Tillman, given how much he brought up on here. It is interesting. He was a character. I think a movie about him would be entertaining if it was done right. He was about 19 years old when the Civil War broke out.
You can buy the ebook here if interested.
LINK
You can buy the ebook here if interested.
LINK
This post was edited on 5/12/17 at 12:01 am
Posted on 5/11/17 at 11:54 pm to Tillman
quote:
WHy do you have to be contentious when a Clemson person posts on here? Take off your SC jersey and hold a civil conversation for once.
I'm pretty sure I banged out your mother in '75. She was blond and pretty, barefoot and wearing a pair of Daisy Duke's?. Her name was Patty, she was from Liberty, and all she asked for was a cold Coke and a bag of peanuts.
Amirite? 'Cause that's a true story. Her Daddy raised and fought Gamecocks ... they lived near the fork in the road where the butcher shop was.
She worshipped Pitchfork Been, just like you.
How's she doing? Heard she got too much sun and looks like a catcher's mitt these days.
BTW, we do have nicer facilities although I will admit we're in a full scale war right now. And yes, ours is generally considered the finest, and definitely the largest, indoor practice facility in the country.
We're not going to have a bowling alley in our new football OPs building though ... so y'all do have that going for you. All bowling loving recruits are yours ... we'll concede those to you.
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