re: Was Smart's impactfulness at Bama undersold?

Took half of bagman with him?

No we were better with pruitt ..more aggressive ..smart bend but don't break crap... recruiting as good as ever..so again it's the perfect storm of Saban and the kings of the earth..

Pruitt was a better DC and just as good as a recruiter. The Pruitt loss hurts way more than Kirby. 2016 Bama defense is better than any Kirby ever called including 2011. Shame Hurts happened at the same time.

First off Kirby had a lot of scholarships to offer thanks to the departure of Richt. Next Georgia a phenomenal year instate talent wise. Then factor in Bama did not adapt to the early signing period which signaled a lack of interest to some recruits.

Also what many of the more ignorant people fail to consider is that Bama after dominating recruiting for this ENTIRE decade was well stocked at many positions. There simply not as many spots on Bama's roster, especially for those players who are scared of competition.

It will be interesting to see how well Kirby does in a year or two when he has to deal with transfers and player who do not want to compete. UGA may have a case of Sumlinitis

Kirby was a good recruiter at Alabama, but he was not even tier 1. Mario Cristobal was a much larger loss than Kirby. Tosh is better than anyone else that Saban has had at Bama except for MC. Pruitt was a better evaluator and recruiter than Kirby. Locksley is a better recruiter. Gattis now is probably better. There were others as good: Lance Thompson, Sal Sunseri, Napier, Steele, et al.

Alabama got almost nothing out of the state of Georgia in Kirby's last 4 years or so. That is not all on Kirby, but it was his point of emphasis.

Bottom line is that Kirby was a good recruiter at Bama but there were several better and numerous as good. Kirby's primary contribution was his ability to understand and teach Saban's defensive schemes from a conceptual POV. Though Pruitt was a much better play caller, Kirby was as good at understanding the principles behind the defense. Kirby was also a very good motivator. Like Saban and Pruitt, he is ruthless and driven.

Bama had its best recruiting class ever Kirby's first year gone (though Kirby contributed to it). But one guy just doesn't make that much difference - even MC, who along with Tosh, may be the best recruiter Bama has ever had and is twice the recruiter most are. Look what he is doing at Oregon. Bama is back on track this year to have as good of a class as most or any they've had in the past. Btw, it's beginning to look like last year's class is going to turn out much better than it appeared on paper. Anoma and Waddle may be superstars and Surtain looks the part though he is not up to speed yet on Saban's complex secondary schemes. Moody and Ford are looking better than their lower rating and Barmore, if he can endure the Alabama humidity (this is not a joke), looks very good, along with others.

So Kirby, as well as other coaches have done a good job recruiting, but he was not even the best. And now with Tosh, Locksley, Gattis, Banks and others, Bama probably has the best recruiting staff it has ever had. But with Kirby at UGA and other programs ramping things up (don't discount UT or A&M), the competition is as tough or tougher than ever.

Pruitt was better in all aspects if we are being honest. That doesn’t mean he’ll be a better head coach.

Cristobal was not a good position coach though - I was glad we parted ways honestly

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Uh, Tom Herman is just the most recent example.

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His hype was because of Urban Meyer and winning that national championship along with beating Oklahoma at Houston once.

Still, it's Texas and his recruiting isn't really anything out of the ordinary.

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Dafuq?

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I guess next you are going to pretend like coaches don't get hired because they worked for Saban.

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Help me out here. The only two places I know that he applied for were the AU job before Gus and the UGA job. Who else passed on him?

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As I understood it, people were actually whispering about the fact that Kirby never really made a serious effort to get a HC job until UGA. He was easily one of the hottest assistants out there for years, after all. The odds are good that he was puttering around with HC vacancies but was hoping his dream job would become available before he was too old. He was only in his 30s when he worked under Saban, after all. People forget how young Kirby is and how much time he could afford to waste before it became a question of getting an HC job or watching his prime (and therefore his ability to command serious offers from desperate universities) pass.

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randomways

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mm? How did you establish that? I mean, I guess it can be argued, but I'm not sure what the argument would be in claiming Pruitt is better at both of these things than Kirby was. One year doesn't seem like a very strong data point.

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It was 2 years, including probably the greatest D in history - though they won't get credit for it because of the 4th qtr of the NC game in 2016. Then last year with the massive injuries - what he did was remarkable.

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Edit: incidentally, re the rest of your comment, I actually know a few Bama fans who despised Pruitt before he came on as DC (and certainly back in his previous gig under Saban) and didn't feel much more charitable afterwards. They mainly hail from Pruitt's old stomping grounds when he worked at the high school level, so that might have something to do with it.

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I was one of them. I did not like him or realize his coaching contribution (knew about his recruiting) during his first time here. In fact, I was shocked he was offered the FSU DC job. Then in his first few PCs at FSU he sounded both unappreciative and like a loose canon - like an immature little brat. But the secondary was not the same after he left and he did a very good job at FSU and UGA. I also found that he had a savant (I mean that literally - maybe a photographic memory or some other unusual ability, idk) like ability to map the available D play to the anticipated O play. With KS Bama was often scurrying to get the play in, with JP it was almost immediate. Saban's D calls are complicated so it's more unfair to blame KS than to give JP credit. Also, as much of a rube as JP now sounds, he has matured a lot and is not the loose canon he was before. Saban could not wait to get him back as the DC. He is much more aggressive as DC than KS and IMO, just better.

But yeah, I can believe JP was a jerk at Hoover. I'm sure there are exceptions but his players love him. His recruits do too. Kirby only took Fromm who was from Georgia (he was replaced with Tua). JP really hurt Bama last year with Peterson, ?Walker? and another one or two who Bama lost (only Peterson went to UT) because he was gone. He also took a big time recruit, ?Demarcus Walker?, to FSU with him.