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re: Was Landon Collins as good as advertised?
Posted on 12/10/12 at 6:03 pm to UAFanFromNOLA
Posted on 12/10/12 at 6:03 pm to UAFanFromNOLA
So "more physically athletic" ALWAYS equals "better player" with no other factors involved? Is that the sort of reasoning that kept Jordan Jefferson on the field over Jarrett Lee when he couldn't cross the 50?
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Posted on 12/10/12 at 6:03 pm to Bwbama
quote:
I must be related to Lacy then. Yeldon is very good, but Lacy is better when fully healthy, for now. I have seen Bama play every snap, not just the last minute vs LSU. Maybe you missed the SECCG where both got carries and Lacy got MVP.
I'm sure you think Ingram was better than Trent, too. I'm glad you feel that way, but there is a reason most SEC fans feared a Lacy injury. There wasn't any relief when Lacy was hurt, just dread. I'm glad you think Lacy is better, though. I don't think that would be the majority opinion were there a straw poll.
Posted on 12/10/12 at 6:05 pm to UAFanFromNOLA
quote:
ETA: We never said a freshman could not start. Just that the likely reason LC was not starting over Sunseri was that Sunseri had something to offer that LC did not (in this case actually knowing the playbook). Most everyone expects LC to take over.
quote:
You're asking why a freshmen didn't start for a National Championship squad. Lets just think about that.
Someone did. That is also what I addressed. If you don't subscribe to that school of thought, why are you arguing with me? It would appear we agree.
This post was edited on 12/10/12 at 6:06 pm
Posted on 12/10/12 at 6:06 pm to therick711
quote:
the argument that a freshmen couldn't play for a defense that gives Sunseri a ton of time, is not a viable one. There must be another reason.
what are you saying? surely he could play. he does play. Sunseri's PT has gone down lately. He's been replaced by Geno Smith in most packages. Sunseri was playing the nickel cb slot most of the time. Collins is a safety and is being groomed to takeover the safety spot.
Posted on 12/10/12 at 6:07 pm to SECSolomonGrundy
quote:
what are you saying? surely he could play. he does play. Sunseri's PT has gone down lately. He's been replaced by Geno Smith in most packages. Sunseri was playing the nickel cb slot most of the time. Collins is a safety and is being groomed to takeover the safety spot.
Read my posts. My position is quite clear. I successfully refuted a frankly absurd position.
Posted on 12/10/12 at 6:08 pm to therick711
quote:We don't know who the better player is because we don't see them in practice every day, but we do know that Sunseri gets much more playing time than LC. The coaching staff that sees the players practice every day obviously believes Vinnie gives them a better chance to win and have made him a starter as a result.
sure its possible. Barron was a better player than Woodall, HCD was a better player than Lowery, Collins is probably a better player than Sunseri.
quote:Not every player is capable of coming in their freshman year and beating out more established guys. So far this year, Collins has not been able to do that which is why Sunseri has played over him.
I believe that I have made my point that the argument that Bama's D is good that no freshmen could have started in the defensive backfield is wrong.
This post was edited on 12/10/12 at 6:09 pm
Posted on 12/10/12 at 6:10 pm to therick711
quote:
So, I believe that I have made my point that the argument that Bama's D is good that no freshmen could have started in the defensive backfield is wrong. I think Landon's middle game will sharpen up and he will fulfill at least some of his promise.
middle game?
Posted on 12/10/12 at 6:12 pm to SECSolomonGrundy
quote:
middle game?
Should say mental. Phones are tough on the spelling an punctuation at times.
Posted on 12/10/12 at 6:12 pm to therick711
quote:
You are such a fricking moron, you can't even have a conversation about why the statement "Player X can't start because it is a National Championship caliber defense" without completely missing the point and bringing in inapplicable banalities. I feel sorry for whoever has to converse with you IRL. It must be quite the chore.
In making your point, you made some incorrect assertions.
What's banal is that there is always some arrogant prick like you who thinks he knows more than the coaching staff. The
point is that Collins may be a better athlete than Sunseri, but he obviously doesnt do everything necessary to play right now. I dont care how athletic you are, if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, well, just ask Honey Badger how that works out.
This post was edited on 12/10/12 at 6:16 pm
Posted on 12/10/12 at 6:13 pm to therick711
quote:It was actually an LSU fan that said that. Unless I have misread what you have written, your position appears to be that LC is the better player and that what Vinnie offers in knowing the playbook does not make up for his physical limitations. The majority of the Alabama posters on here are arguing that his mental prowess makes up for his limitations. We use that fact that Vinnie has gotten a lot of playing time with the first team while Collins does not as our evidence.
Someone did. That is also what I addressed. If you don't subscribe to that school of thought, why are you arguing with me? It would appear we agree.
This post was edited on 12/10/12 at 6:15 pm
Posted on 12/10/12 at 6:15 pm to Bwbama
quote:
What's banal is that there is always some arrogant prick like you who thinks he knows more than the coaching staff.
No I don't. You are too fricking stupid to understand, which is impeding the communication that everyone else appears to be smart enough to follow. I don't presume to know who should start. I said that the Bama defense is not so good that a freshmen couldn't play. Sunseri's playing time, for instance, is long hanging fruit for a secondary player of the proper caliber to snatch.
Learn to fricking read what is being argued. You really have no fricking clue what is going on.
Dear Bama fans:
Please read this very slowly.
The point I am making was refuting CajunRevolution's post. Most of you appear to agree that Sunseri's PT could be poached. We, for the most part, agree. Some of you think that we are arguing that Collins SHOULD start. You are what we call morons. The line of reasoning was only to demonstrate that the right freshmen could have played. Just saying it is a "national title" defense and moving on is not a viable argument.
This post was edited on 12/10/12 at 6:19 pm
Posted on 12/10/12 at 6:16 pm to therick711
quote:Considering the coaching staff has decided differently in this case, I am going to side with them. We are not above playing freshman (look at Devall) but LC obviously isn't ready or he would already be out there.
I said that the Bama defense is not so good that a freshmen couldn't play.
This post was edited on 12/10/12 at 6:17 pm
Posted on 12/10/12 at 6:18 pm to UAFanFromNOLA
quote:
LC obviously isn't ready or he would already be out there.
No fricking shite! Again, the reason he isn't out there isn't because Bama has a "national championship" defense. So we agree. Please read the bolded portion of the previous post to understand that we agree on the point you keep posting over and over.
Posted on 12/10/12 at 6:19 pm to therick711
quote:It was probably statements like this one that made everyone think you were arguing for Collins to be the starter. Clearly, I misunderstood what you were saying.
but are you guys serious that you think he brings more to the table then he removes from it when he is out there? You guys can't really be serious.
Posted on 12/10/12 at 6:21 pm to UAFanFromNOLA
quote:
It was probably statements like this one that made everyone think you were arguing for Collins to be the starter. Clearly, I misunderstood what you were saying.
Clearly I was telling people who follow a team more closely than I that Collins should start.
As you now know, I was just saying that Sunseri is a player that the casual observer could identify and say, his grasp on the system combined with his athletic prowess is not so great that he could fend off any freshmen (which is essentially what it is a "national championship defense" is arguing.).
ETA: It would cause confusion if you remove ALL the context and the actual argument in the topic sentence above.
The post as it appears
quote:
You're asking why a freshmen didn't start for a National Championship squad. Lets just think about that.
That is a pretty simplistic response when you know very well that somehow Vinnie Sunseri is allowed to play for that National Championship squad.
I get that he's a gamer and all that, but Bama fans would be lying if they didn't at least tacitly admit that for everything he brings to the table in intangibles, he takes something off the table in terms of athleticism. Also, I don't know how fast he is, but he does not appear to be of the same caliber in terms of speed as the other members of that defense.
This post was edited on 12/10/12 at 6:24 pm
Posted on 12/10/12 at 6:24 pm to therick711
Let me explain to you: even if your thesis is accurate, if you make incorrect assertions to back it up, those will get challenged. You said Sunseri's weaknesses made up for his strengths. I challenged that by pointing out the "banality" that Saban obviously doesn't think so. See how this works?
Posted on 12/10/12 at 6:31 pm to Bwbama
quote:
Let me explain to you: even if your thesis is accurate, if you make incorrect assertions to back it up, those will get challenged. You said Sunseri's weaknesses made up for his strengths. I challenged that by pointing out the "banality" that Saban obviously doesn't think so. See how this works?
No you didn't. I wish I could help you understand why you aren't making a persuasive argument, but you can't even acknowledge you didn't even understand the syllogism. You haven't proven anything incorrect.
MP(CR): Freshmen can't play for a "National Championship caliber defense"
mp(CR): Alabama has a "National Championship caliber defense"
QED: Collins could not have played no matter what.
I pointed out that the MP and mp are flawed and the conclusion didn't flow. You are here arguing what essentially boils down to what happened, happened. Good for you. I hope for your sake, you catch up to what's being argued in other threads
Posted on 12/10/12 at 6:40 pm to therick711
You've been arguing about an Alabama backup for over an hour now.
Posted on 12/10/12 at 8:02 pm to americanrealism
Mark Barron didn't play as a freshman and he worked out quite well I heard. Collins body looks identical to Barron's as a freshman. Not saying he's going to be Mark Barron but they look very similar.
Posted on 12/10/12 at 8:05 pm to americanrealism
Forgot we were discussing Bama fans favorite subject. This things been a top page thread all night.
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