re: Thoughts on Frank Martin

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He's a great coach but it's too hard to get elite talent to USCjr. He's brought South Carolina up to the top of the SEC this year without a ton of competition. But the rest of the SEC is catching up with coaching hires, and those other coaches seem to be bringing in much better talent. Starting next year you'll see South Carolina start to slide back to the middle of the SEC. If he wants to compete at the highest level consistently in the SEC then he'll need to go somewhere he can build something like Mizzou

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Frank martin took over a program that was about as bottomed-out as the program could get....a program that has struggled to have winning conference records and have post-season appearances, and he still brought in better-rated recruiting classes than Missouri has in 5 of his 6 classes, with at least a 4* prospect in 5 of the 6.

And he still isn't bringing in the best talent a staff could at USC, based on the level of talent that SC grows. This isn't football, where teams have 85 scholarship players and need at least 22 to play offense and defense. SC is a small state that's a green state - an agricultural state which means as small as it is, it still has an even smaller population (low residential density per sq. mile).

But in BB you only need 5 for a starting unit, and 2-3 to play substantial reserve minutes regularly. SC produces excellent to elite BB talent regularly, but USC has struggled to pull the majority of that talent due to being so close to ACC schools, and because of our lack of sustained success over the years. Clemson is in the ACC, but they have also struggled over the yrs to have a successful MBB program, so the in-state talent typically passes them by as well....

4* or better rated SC prospects during Frank Martin's tenure:

2017: 4* Jalek Felton (UNC)
2016: 4* Seventh Woods (UNC)
2015: 5* P.J. Dozier (USC)
2015: 4* Tevin Mack (Texas)
2014: 4* L.J. Peak (Georgetown)
2014: 4* Eric Stroman (USC)
2013: 4* Sindarius Thornwell (USC)
2012: 4* Brice Johnson (UNC)
2012: 4* Larry Wideman (Furman)

The 2012 prospects were seniors last year. If USC could have gotten the lion's share of those prospects, then our program would be much further ahead than its been (these don't include out-of-state 4*s Blanton, Silva, Keita, and David Beatty who are either in the program now or are incoming signees). Roy Williams has made a living in SC during the bad yrs for our program, taking advantage of it and raking in all the cream of the crops.

In the 2018 cycle, SC has a 5* and overall #2 prospect Zion Williamson (he's most likely Duke bound), a 4* Aaron Nesmith (Ivy League bound), plus two borderline 4* prospects that USC isn't in the picture yet with either. But with the recent successes, that may change. In 2019, SC has 5* Juwan Gary, high 4*s Josiah James and Christian Brown, and solid 4*s D.J. Burns and Tommy Bruner, so hopefully Martin will have USC in better position with those (Williams already has UNC front-running with Gary, but these kids are starting to come to USC games a bit these days)....

Frank may leave us but it won't be for another SEC school other than Kentucky. The "SEC brand" would be one of the few reasons he would leave, IMO. It would have to be a blue blood or a decent school in a basketball conference. NCST worries me, tbh.

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His wife and kids are entrenched here. That's #2.

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When we give him the money, he will tell his kids to pack their shite and head for the real Columbia.

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He's talking about moving his mother here. That's #3.

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#4 ... Mizzou cannot afford his buyout plus pay him what it would take to lure him away.

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Oh, yes we can.

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#5 ... he's being kind to CoMo when he speaks of CoMo. He's never lived there, he's only visited. He's actually lived here for five years.

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He got hired as the head coach at South Carolina five years ago. Where else do you expect him to live, you fricking doughnut?

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Mizzou's Athletic Department budget pales in comparison to SC's so he would require upgrades to your facilities that we already have in place, or are under construction, here. Mizzou cannot afford him.

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bullshite. Your arena is bigger, not better. Our facilities are superior in basketball and we have a solid tradition. South Carolina is a joke.

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#7 ... Martin has cultivated his recruiting base in this area throughout SC and to include NC and GA plus the Miami area and he's got the European connection as well that he has built here.

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The number one overall recruit came out of MO this year. The Midwest is better for basketball recruiting. That's why the BIG 10 > SEC in basketball year after year. South Carolina also has to compete with Duke, NC State, and North Carolina.

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If you really believe Martin would leave for Mizzou, which is not even a lateral move, then you are dreaming.

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leave for Mizzou, which is not even a lateral move

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I'm not going to get caught up in all this nonsense in this thread but this statement is dead wrong. You won't find any basketball types coaching in the NCAA that would agree with you either.

Mizzou is a much better job than South Carolina. Them just the facts baw.

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Mizzou is a much better job than South Carolina. Them just the facts baw.

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Perhaps, at one time, strictly with regard to men's basketball you might have been correct. Not now though ... not anylonger.

Mizzou is still a dumpster fire ... it's not even down to a smoldering pike of hot garbage status yet.

Mizzou is at best a has been program struggling not to become totally irrelevant.

Now thems just the facts braw ... and nothing personal. But you need to accept how your program is perceived these days. BLM, gay linebackers eating cake, safe spaces, angry ginger professors, false narratives, empty dorms, tanking enrollments, boycotting male AND female athletes (football and softball), and really bad sports teams ... except wrastlin' of course.

Did I mention the yankee thing?

Delusional with a side of rustle

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Perhaps, at one time, strictly with regard to men's basketball you might have been correct. Not now though ... not anylonger.

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In the context of Martin, this probably is true. Seems unlikely he will want to go through yet another complete rebuild for a program that isn't elite


Mizzou is still the better job though overall. If you can't see that, you clearly dont understand how basketball works

Martin isn't a great recruiter and his style takes time to take root in the program. considering Kimmy will leave the cupboard bare, Martin would take 3-4 years

What would be a "better hire" exactly though?

Mizzou is a good job, but amongst bball schools nationally it is just decent.

Unless you're super lucky or you want to take a risk on an upcoming coach that's unproven, you aren't going to do better than Martin