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re: Tennesse fans regrets firing fulmer?
Posted on 10/31/11 at 10:11 am to BamaGradinTn
Posted on 10/31/11 at 10:11 am to BamaGradinTn
The similarities between Derek Dooley and Mike Shula are incredible.
Alabama, facing the scholarship limitations of probation, hired a moron (Mike Price). Because they hired a moron, they ended up having to hire the next coach at a time outside the normal hiring time frame (after spring practice). Subsequently, they ended up having to go with a coach with a light resume who happened to be the son of a coaching legend.
Tennessee, suffering from a sort of self-imposed probation...lots of scholarship players had left for various reasons...hired a moron (Lane Kiffin). Because they hired a moron, they ended up having to hire the next coach at a time outside the normal hiring time frame (mid-January, not long before NSD). Subsequently, they ended up having to go with a coach with a light resume who happened to be the son of a coaching legend.
Alabama, facing the scholarship limitations of probation, hired a moron (Mike Price). Because they hired a moron, they ended up having to hire the next coach at a time outside the normal hiring time frame (after spring practice). Subsequently, they ended up having to go with a coach with a light resume who happened to be the son of a coaching legend.
Tennessee, suffering from a sort of self-imposed probation...lots of scholarship players had left for various reasons...hired a moron (Lane Kiffin). Because they hired a moron, they ended up having to hire the next coach at a time outside the normal hiring time frame (mid-January, not long before NSD). Subsequently, they ended up having to go with a coach with a light resume who happened to be the son of a coaching legend.
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Posted on 10/31/11 at 10:13 am to BamaGradinTn
quote:
The similarities between Derek Dooley and Mike Shula are incredible.
Alabama, facing the scholarship limitations of probation, hired a moron (Mike Price). Because they hired a moron, they ended up having to hire the next coach at a time outside the normal hiring time frame (after spring practice). Subsequently, they ended up having to go with a coach with a light resume who happened to be the son of a coaching legend.
Tennessee, suffering from a sort of self-imposed probation...lots of scholarship players had left for various reasons...hired a moron (Lane Kiffin). Because they hired a moron, they ended up having to hire the next coach at a time outside the normal hiring time frame (mid-January, not long before NSD). Subsequently, they ended up having to go with a coach with a light resume who happened to be the son of a coaching legend.
Saban to Tennessee???
Posted on 10/31/11 at 10:16 am to hashtag
UT fans need to own up to the fact that UT's success in the 90's was a result of Doug Dickey's administration. When you have a blank check to buy players from California, Texas, and the east coast you can get top talent to come to Knoxville.
Once UT came under NCAA scrutiny the party was over.
In addition, Dooley still has members of LK's staff. He wasn't allowed to hire his own crew. Kiss of death for morale.
Once UT came under NCAA scrutiny the party was over.
In addition, Dooley still has members of LK's staff. He wasn't allowed to hire his own crew. Kiss of death for morale.
Posted on 10/31/11 at 10:18 am to VOL61
quote:
The mistake wasn't Fulmer firing. It was not throwing big money at David Cutcliffe when Duke came calling. We should have offered him the bank. Most of Fulmers real success came when Cut, Cheif, and him were all three there together. I think Cutcliffe brought a work ethic and discipline to the program that just wasn't there when he left both times. I also think it pushed Flumer to be a better coach and recruiter.
I agree that this was part of the decline. I believe that the decline started in 2001, when the Vols were "expected" to play in the NC game in the Rose Bowl, after dispatching underdog LSU. Had UT gone on to win the MNC, backed by a previous win in '98, their recruiting would have been off the hook. This was critical because UT depends so much on oos recruits. Once this "recruiting momentum" was slowed, it set up the gradual slippage in the blue chippers. Coaches are smarter with a lot of really good players.
Posted on 10/31/11 at 10:19 am to CrimsonBlitz
Dooley was allowed to hire his own staff, and he chose parts of Kiffins, because they were very legit.
And recruiting is different than it was in the 90s. You are dealing with a different kid, and Tennessee is now a hard sell.
And recruiting is different than it was in the 90s. You are dealing with a different kid, and Tennessee is now a hard sell.
This post was edited on 10/31/11 at 10:19 am
Posted on 10/31/11 at 10:27 am to hashtag
quote:
Anthony Anderson
Carson Anderson
Ben Bartholomew
Willie Bohannon
Art Evans
C.J. Fleming
Steven Fowlkes
Austin Johnson
Herman Lathers
Tauren Poole
Dallas Thomas
Daryl Vereen
Prentiss Waggner
Marlon Walls
Rodriguez Wilks
And you are arguing for Fulmer?
Posted on 10/31/11 at 10:28 am to NukemVol
quote:
NukemVol
Tennesse fans regrets firing fulmer?
Dooley was allowed to hire his own staff, and he chose parts of Kiffins, because they were very legit.
And recruiting is different than it was in the 90s. You are dealing with a different kid, and Tennessee is now a hard sell.
Tennessee will continue to be tough because the high school talent level in the state of Tennessee isn't that good. In addition, UT's geographic location in Knoxville isn't helpful with in-state recruiting. Alabama, Auburn, Vandy, Ole Miss, MSU, Arkansas, and LSU are all closer to Memphis than UT. UT is closer to Columbus, OH than it is to Memphis. You have to recruit Atlanta well, and other parts of the country also.
Posted on 10/31/11 at 10:30 am to BamaGradinTn
quote:
Tennessee will continue to be tough because the high school talent level in the state of Tennessee isn't that good. In addition, UT's geographic location in Knoxville isn't helpful with in-state recruiting. Alabama, Auburn, Vandy, Ole Miss, MSU, Arkansas, and LSU are all closer to Memphis than UT. UT is closer to Columbus, OH than it is to Memphis. You have to recruit Atlanta well, and other parts of the country also.
Tennessee has never recruited Memphis well, even in the 90s. Memphis' talent level is also extremely overrated.
Posted on 10/31/11 at 10:33 am to dreaux
quote:
Any regrets with firing fulmer?
None. He is one of the main reasons we are in this situation. He got very lazy and it showed with his recruiting.
quote:
I know kiffen really messed you guys up
No doubt that in hindsight it was a flawed hire. BUT, he is not the main reason we are in this situation.
quote:
Didn't he have a 10 win season and won the east the year he was fired?
No, he was 5-7 and didn't make a bowl game.
Posted on 10/31/11 at 10:35 am to NukemVol
nah, Tenn is still a good sell. we have gold plated facilities that are second to none . we have one of the best tradition and fanbase in cfb.
talent rich state of Georgia is located very close to TN, just like talent rich state of Texas is located very close to Oklahoma. all it takes is the right coach to win at this program.
even during our worst years Tenn is top 15 in recruiting rankings. top 5 or top 10 when we're good.
talent rich state of Georgia is located very close to TN, just like talent rich state of Texas is located very close to Oklahoma. all it takes is the right coach to win at this program.
even during our worst years Tenn is top 15 in recruiting rankings. top 5 or top 10 when we're good.
Posted on 10/31/11 at 10:39 am to volfan30
quote:
volfan30
Tennesse fans regrets firing fulmer?
quote:
Tennessee will continue to be tough because the high school talent level in the state of Tennessee isn't that good. In addition, UT's geographic location in Knoxville isn't helpful with in-state recruiting. Alabama, Auburn, Vandy, Ole Miss, MSU, Arkansas, and LSU are all closer to Memphis than UT. UT is closer to Columbus, OH than it is to Memphis. You have to recruit Atlanta well, and other parts of the country also.
Tennessee has never recruited Memphis well, even in the 90s. Memphis' talent level is also extremely overrated.
Barrett Jones. Marlon Brown. Just a couple of recent ones. Granted, Jones was headed to Bama all along because his parents went there. Maybe it's overrated, maybe it isn't...but if it is overrated, it's more indication that the HS talent level in the state isn't good.
Posted on 10/31/11 at 10:44 am to Crompdaddy8
quote:
Crompdaddy8
Tennesse fans regrets firing fulmer?
nah, Tenn is still a good sell. we have gold plated facilities that are second to none . we have one of the best tradition and fanbase in cfb.
talent rich state of Georgia is located very close to TN, just like talent rich state of Texas is located very close to Oklahoma. all it takes is the right coach to win at this program.
even during our worst years Tenn is top 15 in recruiting rankings. top 5 or top 10 when we're good.
Lots of schools have great facilities, traditions, and fan bases, so while Tennessee's may be good, you could name 15 other schools that could say the same thing. You're right when you say it wakes the "right coach" to win. So how do you identify and hire the "right coach"? It isn't that easy. At an Alabama, even Mike Shula won 10 games one year. And Mike Dubose won an SEC championship more recently than Phil Fulmer.
Sometimes those top 10 or top 15 recruiting classes have effectively ended up being maybe top 30 or top 40 after you factor out the guys who couldn't get into school or didn't stay in school for whatever reason. The recruiting rankings can end up being a myth (Bryce Brown???) because they don't factor in quality of character and how well a player fits into your program.
This post was edited on 10/31/11 at 10:49 am
Posted on 10/31/11 at 11:54 am to VOL61
quote:
The mistake wasn't Fulmer firing. It was not throwing big money at David Cutcliffe when Duke came calling. We should have offered him the bank. Most of Fulmers real success came when Cut, Cheif, and him were all three there together. I think Cutcliffe brought a work ethic and discipline to the program that just wasn't there when he left both times. I also think it pushed Flumer to be a better coach and recruiter. When he left the discipline and the work ethic seems to take nose dives. The recruiting wasn't as good. The program overall wasn't as good.
Cutcliffe was talked about when Kiffin left and Hamilton passed. That may turn out to be a mistake as well. He is a great coach. People say he isn't a big time recruiter but he hasn't had anything to sell at most stops. I would have like to have seen him got a shot. I don't think it could have been any worse than what we are seeing.
Cut is not head coach material.
Posted on 10/31/11 at 11:56 am to BamaGradinTn
quote:
The similarities between Derek Dooley and Mike Shula are incredible.
Alabama, facing the scholarship limitations of probation, hired a moron (Mike Price). Because they hired a moron, they ended up having to hire the next coach at a time outside the normal hiring time frame (after spring practice). Subsequently, they ended up having to go with a coach with a light resume who happened to be the son of a coaching legend.
Tennessee, suffering from a sort of self-imposed probation...lots of scholarship players had left for various reasons...hired a moron (Lane Kiffin). Because they hired a moron, they ended up having to hire the next coach at a time outside the normal hiring time frame (mid-January, not long before NSD). Subsequently, they ended up having to go with a coach with a light resume who happened to be the son of a coaching legend.
Always thought of Kiffin more like Franchione.
Posted on 10/31/11 at 12:05 pm to hashtag
quote:
here's another question:
If you offered $5 million/year and couldn't get a guarantee from an established coach that was equal to or better than Fulmer, do you still fire him? Can you justify firing a coach and knowingly hiring someone who is not as good as he is?
I see no reason to believe that Fulmer is a better coach than Kiffin at this point in time. Fulmer is well over a decade past his prime right now.
Posted on 10/31/11 at 12:05 pm to dreaux
I regret who we let run the program.
Namely, Hamilton.
Namely, Hamilton.
Posted on 10/31/11 at 12:09 pm to CountryVolFan
It's really too bad Fulmer wasn't fired in 2005. If that was the case, our road to recovery would have probably been over already.
Posted on 10/31/11 at 12:15 pm to BamaGradinTn
quote:
Lots of schools have great facilities, traditions, and fan bases, so while Tennessee's may be good, you could name 15 other schools that could say the same thing. You're right when you say it wakes the "right coach" to win. So how do you identify and hire the "right coach"? It isn't that easy. At an Alabama, even Mike Shula won 10 games one year. And Mike Dubose won an SEC championship more recently than Phil Fulmer.
Sometimes those top 10 or top 15 recruiting classes have effectively ended up being maybe top 30 or top 40 after you factor out the guys who couldn't get into school or didn't stay in school for whatever reason. The recruiting rankings can end up being a myth (Bryce Brown???) because they don't factor in quality of character and how well a player fits into your program.
Dooley's job is to stabilize the program and the sad truth for Vol fans is it is just going to take time. We need to get some quality kids and some real leaders which I don't see. There is way too much immaturity in the program from the more talented kids we have. We need more discipline on the field. The "in" excuse now is youth and injuries which are legitimate. But next year is really the last year the "youth" excuse is going to fly. But I will say, the kids Dooley is recruiting are getting in school and are here. So if the rankings are legitimate we are going in the right direction. We just need to develop what we have and what is coming.
I hope Dooley does have some success he seems like a good guy and he is easy to pull for. But either way the program will be in better shape because of how he is going about his job. If he doesn't the next hire will be the most important in the history of the program. The next step I want to see is a few real leaders step up. Win or lose you need some vocal leaders who have been through some battles and can show the younger ones the right way to go about things. We have missed that dearly and I think it has hampered the development of the young ones we have now. We will see. But it is going to be a long road there is no doubting that.
Posted on 10/31/11 at 12:18 pm to VOL61
The youth excuse is not going to fly next year.
Tennessee should have an elite passing attack next year. They'll have 2nd and 3rd year starters just about everywhere else. The depth will be much better and we won't have to play nearly as many guys who aren't ready. I'm not saying UT will be competing for a title, but if we're still a 6 or 7 win team in 2012, it's going to be pretty clear that our coach is simply awful.
Tennessee should have an elite passing attack next year. They'll have 2nd and 3rd year starters just about everywhere else. The depth will be much better and we won't have to play nearly as many guys who aren't ready. I'm not saying UT will be competing for a title, but if we're still a 6 or 7 win team in 2012, it's going to be pretty clear that our coach is simply awful.
Posted on 10/31/11 at 12:19 pm to ohiovol
quote:
The youth excuse is not going to fly next year.
Tennessee should have an elite passing attack next year. They'll have 2nd and 3rd year starters just about everywhere else. The depth will be much better and we won't have to play nearly as many guys who aren't ready. I'm not saying UT will be competing for a title, but if we're still a 6 or 7 win team in 2012, it's going to be pretty clear that our coach is simply awful.
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