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re: Teddy Lehman Telling Truth about SEC
Posted on 7/13/24 at 2:57 pm to Captain Rumbeard
Posted on 7/13/24 at 2:57 pm to Captain Rumbeard
quote:
This is not the Big 12 kids. And if you think this league is just 2 teams you are about to be in for a shock because one thing has always been true about this league, anybody can take you out on any given Saturday. Happens all the time. You're gonna hate it just like everyone else.
Except for the elite teams in the SEC.
They never get taken out on "any given Saturday"... They almost always win.
Which is basically what Teddy was saying.
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Posted on 7/13/24 at 3:39 pm to Soonerboomer1
By his logic, Gus Malzahn is on the same level as Kirby since he had been at Auburn more than 4 years and won answer SEC title...
Teddy is a moron.
Teddy is a moron.
Posted on 7/13/24 at 8:54 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
In 2022 LSU and Tennessee either one was better than anyone in the CFP other than UGA
Nothing like fresh blood to unite SEC brethren. Thanks baw
Posted on 7/14/24 at 12:59 am to SoonerMagic1
quote:
The vast majority of posters on this thread obviously did not listen to what Teddy Lehman actually said. Rather, you jumped in and defended the SEC for its accomplishments.
Teddy acknowledged and gave full credit to Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Auburn, and LSU for winning national championships since 2000.
He then went on to say that Saban, Urban, Chizik, and Ogeron are no longer coaching in the SEC.
The only coach of a SEC national championship team that is still coaching this upcoming season is Kirby Smart.
And then he said, no other SEC coach for the upcoming season has won a national championship before.
Where is the big lie?
The lie is that he talked about COACHES when talking about SEC teams, but the PROGRAM when he talked about OU.
You can't do that. If you want to talk coaches, then talk coaches.
Venables as a coach has a .615 career winning percentage. He's never won a conference title or made a conference title game.
Coaches in the SEC who have him beat?
Smart, Kelly, Deboer, Kiffin, Heupel, Freeze, Elko, Drink, Napier and Sark.
That's what happens when you look at coaches both for and against rather than "program" for and "coach" against.
The "coach" argument DOES suggest OU will crash and burn. They do better with the program argument... but still aren't in the top 5-6.
Posted on 7/14/24 at 6:36 am to DawginSC
quote:
The lie is that he talked about COACHES when talking about SEC teams, but the PROGRAM when he talked about OU.
Outstanding point. These articles and Twitter statements always come with an emotional predisposition toward bias. It's just who we are. Might as well be honest about it.
Posted on 7/14/24 at 8:42 am to DawginSC
quote:No, he is talking about PROGRAMS with the CURRENT coaching staffs.
The lie is that he talked about COACHES when talking about SEC teams, but the PROGRAM when he talked about OU.
Yes, OU hasn't done anything in his tenure, no jewelry - same as most SEC coaches. THAT is his point.
And we have recruited better than most of the SEC the past 3 years. Why can't OU compete right away again?
Posted on 7/14/24 at 9:57 am to NewBOSSofSEC
quote:
And we have recruited better than most of the SEC the past 3 years. Why can't OU compete right away again?
"Most" is true but also misleading.
Last year, OU would have been 6th in this year's SEC in the talent composite. THey'll be about the same this upcoming year.
Is 6th better than "most"? Sure. But it's not near the top. The SEC as it stands now had 12 teams in the top 20 in talent in 2023. Six in the top 10.
OU under Venables didn't dominate the Big 12 despite it only having 2 other teams (TCU and Texas) in the top 20 of team talent instead of 11 and only one team ranked ahead of them instead of 5. That change in what they face DOES suggest they'll have troubles. It would be different if they only struggled against Texas in conference. But the 3rd most talented roster in the big 12 other than OU was Texas Tech at 40th. Literally EVERY SEC team besides Vandy (58th) had more team talent than TT.
Yet OU lost to Kansas (62nd in talent) and OKSU (55th in talent) and struggled with UCF (53rd) and BYU (74th). They also lost to Arizona in their bowl (43rd). Again, all of these teams are behind every SEC team other than Vandy in talent.
OU has off days against teams like OkSU or Kansas (who each had 6 4+ star players) and manages to lose. If they have the same sort of day against Arkansas or UK (28-30 4+ star guys) they'll have a harder time managing a win. And those are the teams what were 2nd' and 3rd worst in the SEC in team talent (though a few ranked above them have less 4+ star guys).
This post was edited on 7/14/24 at 9:58 am
Posted on 7/14/24 at 10:11 am to DawginSC
quote:So why can't OU compete immediately again? Yes it's not the top, but enough to compete. Michigan is FAR less talented than Alabama judging by recruiting stars, but beat them anyway.
Is 6th better than "most"? Sure.
OU lost to Kansas, but beat Texas to finish 10-3. Auburn lost to New Mexico State, aTm lost to App State. Let's not pretend SEC teams don't take bad losses.
Posted on 7/14/24 at 12:29 pm to Dawgfanman
So if we are to ignore SEC teams picked ahead of OU because their coaches haven’t done shite, how should we feel about an OU coach who himself has not done shite?
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That’s the point. Why automatically put these teams above OU when in similar situations coaching wise.
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That’s the point. Why automatically put these teams above OU when in similar situations coaching wise.
Posted on 7/14/24 at 5:16 pm to Soonerboomer1
Posted on 7/14/24 at 5:43 pm to LSU Tiger Eyes
lsu is also a notch above oklahoma and texas. the reasons why:
1) proven coach in kelly who has had seven consecutive 10+ win seasons. also got to the sec championship his first year. vegetables is still relatively new to head coaching and sark has had one 10+ win season in i think ten seasons as head coach
2) they've won at the highest level much more recently. see all the national championships since the last time ou or texas won one
3) similar overall talent to oklahoma and texas
1) proven coach in kelly who has had seven consecutive 10+ win seasons. also got to the sec championship his first year. vegetables is still relatively new to head coaching and sark has had one 10+ win season in i think ten seasons as head coach
2) they've won at the highest level much more recently. see all the national championships since the last time ou or texas won one
3) similar overall talent to oklahoma and texas
Posted on 7/14/24 at 9:32 pm to NewBOSSofSEC
quote:
So why can't OU compete immediately again? Yes it's not the top, but enough to compete. Michigan is FAR less talented than Alabama judging by recruiting stars, but beat them anyway.
OU lost to Kansas, but beat Texas to finish 10-3. Auburn lost to New Mexico State, aTm lost to App State. Let's not pretend SEC teams don't take bad losses.
OU COULD compete immediately. But it's unlikely.
The reason is they've had struggle games and losses to less talented teams when they were in the Big 12 under Venables.
Now they are in the SEC, the talent level they face each week is higher. Instead of being #2 in talent in the conference, they'll be #5 or #6. Instead of having 3 teams in the top 40 of college football talent in their conference, they are now facing 14 other team in the conference.
For a team that has proven so far under Venables to not be able to easily handle extremely low talent teams in the past, it's unwise to project them to be able to handle much more talented teams regularly going forward.
This is more a coaching observation than a talent observation. OU has talent on their roster. But so does A&M. The reality is neither has been able to ride that high level of talent into consistent performance the last couple of seasons. Yes, they occasionally have a game where they live up to their talent and beat Texas (for OU) or beat LSU ( like A&M did a couple seasons ago). But then they'll lose to vastly undertalented teams like Kansas, Arizona and Oklahoma State for OU or like A&M did in 2022 when they lost to App State, South Carolina and Mississippi State amongst others.
The issue is yo see yourself as LSU.
But the evidence Venables has put forward is more like A&M.
Posted on 7/14/24 at 9:55 pm to DawginSC
quote:Kirby lost to Georgia Tech
The reason is they've had struggle games and losses to less talented teams when they were in the Big 12 under Venables.
And then lost big games for years, just like Georgia has for 40 years. Your overly simplistic way of looking at win loss columns is like lazy sports analysts. No analysis of circumstances, injuries whatsoever.
Posted on 7/14/24 at 9:59 pm to DawginSC
quote:No we see ourselves as bluebloods of the sport and look down on everyone in the SEC except Alabama.
The issue is yo see yourself as LSU.
Posted on 7/14/24 at 10:57 pm to NewBOSSofSEC
quote:
No we see ourselves as bluebloods of the sport and look down on everyone in the SEC except Alabama.
Yeah, that's even more insane.
The reality is with your current coach right now you're A&M.
You have talent and because of that can upset other high talent teams. But you frequently lose to low talent teams because your coach hasn't proven himself to be very good yet.
And now you're coming into a conference that only has one team that's really low talent. And you don't get to play Vandy this year.
In fact EVERY team OU plays in conference this year is in the top 25 in talent in college football.
OU had a lot of "off days" last season. At least 5 of them.
OU went 2-3 in those games. You're probably going to go 0-5 in those in the SEC. Venables needs to learn to coach his team so they don't have as many games where they don't show up. OU doesn't have enough talent to get through those games in the SEC. Hell, he didn't have enough in the Big 12 either.
He's shown less ability as a head coach than about 2/3rds of the SEC coaches. Which is why Lehman's arguments ring hollow.
Posted on 7/14/24 at 11:13 pm to NewBOSSofSEC
quote:
Kirby lost to Georgia Tech And then lost big games for years, just like Georgia has for 40 years.
Kirby in his first year did lose to GT. He also lost to Vandy so it's worse than that.
But in year two he won the SEC, made the national championship game and took the eventual national champion to overtime.
By his second year, Kirby had already done more than any other coach in the SEC currently has.
Since his first year, his losses have been to:
#1 team in the final rankings (three times)
#2 (twice)
#5
#6
#9
#10
#13
And one outlier to a 4-8 SC team in double OT when UGA's NFL caliber kicker Rodrigo Blankenship missed an easy one.
That's it. 7 seasons 11 losses. And only one to a team outside of the top 13.
And every single one of those teams (including South Carolina) was top 25 in team talent the years UGA lost to them.
That's what a coach who runs a top program looks like. You have to go a bit into the wayback machine to see that, but if you remember Barry Switzer in the 70's or Bud Wilkinson in the 50's, you'll see that Kirby over the last 7 years looks a lot like those guys at OU.
Venables... not yet. Not even close.
Venables could develop into a good coach. But right now he's got OU looking like Texas A&M.
Posted on 7/15/24 at 6:53 am to DawginSC
As someone who grew up in the SWC, I’ve been there. The SEC is just different. It’s not even really about the best teams in the conference, even the bad teams are nationally competitive and you get no breaks. OU and Texas will find out soon enough, it’s like playing a bowl game matchup every week. The margin for victory is so damn small in this conference. It’s incredible really
Posted on 7/15/24 at 7:04 am to Sarcastro
quote:
lsu is also a notch above oklahoma and texas.
Don't see it. If you live in the now, and why wouldn't you, LSU has been a shadow of itself since 2020. They have completely fallen off the elite level since the start of the decade. And frankly, except for the miracle season of 2019 were floundering throughout the Ed Orgeron era back to 2016.
The pollsters are now reflecting these realities. Brian Kelly is now sending out fool's gold by doing less with more. This program has had one season in the last decade that was elite and many more that were downright bad. LSU hasn't put elite seasons together since Les Miles.
Posted on 7/15/24 at 7:08 am to DawginSC
You did cherry-pick 1 year of recruiting.That is not how you do this. Lehman was talking blue chip ratio which consists of all players (minus current NIL transfers). This is the current ranking. It justifies Lehman's rant.
UGA
Bama
A&M
OU
UGA
Bama
A&M
OU
Posted on 7/15/24 at 7:11 am to SoonerMagic1
Good point! They can't claim texsa will compete and then say OU can't based on the Big 12. They are making crap up as you proved. Teddy was correct.
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