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re: Saban on his soapbox again...

Posted on 11/11/11 at 12:43 pm to
Posted by drexyl
Mingovia
Member since Sep 2005
23323 posts
Posted on 11/11/11 at 12:43 pm to
Saban is being a little fricking bitch; however if they asked me to design overtime I would have them start at the 25 and back it up 5 yards for each subsequent OT until you get to the 40. Must go for two after the first OT.
Posted by bradwieser
Cornell Fan
Member since May 2008
10555 posts
Posted on 11/11/11 at 12:44 pm to
quote:

Total no. of overtime games (1974–2003) 365
Both teams had at least one possession 261 (72%)
Team won toss and won game 189 (52%)
Team lost toss and won game 160 (44%)
Team won toss and drove for winning score 102 (28%)
Games ending in a tie 15 (5%)

Overtime games in 2002 - 26
Both teams had at least one possession 15 (58%)
Team won toss and won game 16 (62%)
Team lost toss and won game 9 (35%)
Team won toss and drove for winning score 10 (38%)
Games ending in a tie 1 (3%)

Overtime games in 2003 - 23
Both teams had at least one possession 16 (70%)
Team won toss and won game 12 (52%)
Team lost toss and won game 11 (48%)
Team won toss and drove for winning score 6 (26%)
Games ending in a tie 0 (0 %)

The data appear to support the notion that the football team scoring first in sudden-death overtime is usually the one that had won the coin toss and received the ball.

Interestingly, the cumulative data hide the effect of a rule change that occurred in 1994, when kickoffs were moved back 5 yards to the 30-yard line. Since 1994, nearly one-third of overtime games have been won on the first possession by the team that received the ball first. In the first 20 seasons, under the old rule, slightly more than one-quarter of the games were won in this fashion. LINK

A recent analysis by economist Richard E. Hawkins of Pennsylvania State University in DuBois confirms that these differences are statistically significant.

"The analysis finds with 99.99 % certainty that the [coin] flip has made a difference in the outcome of the game over the last 10 years," he concludes. "But for the period prior to those 10 years, the coin flip cannot be shown to be important."


In sum it appears the coin flip really wasnt a big deal in determining the winner until the NFL moved kickoffs back 5 yards to the 30.

But even still if less than 33% of games are won on the opening drive of OT(since 1994) how unfair is the coin flip rule? 67% of OT games have at least 2 possessions.
This post was edited on 11/11/11 at 12:45 pm
Posted by TigersOfGeauxld
Just across the water...
Member since Aug 2009
25057 posts
Posted on 11/11/11 at 12:45 pm to
quote:

Saban is being a little fricking bitch; however if they asked me to design overtime I would have them start at the 25 and back it up 5 yards for each subsequent OT until you get to the 40. Must go for two after the first OT.


I agree with all of that!

Posted by bradwieser
Cornell Fan
Member since May 2008
10555 posts
Posted on 11/11/11 at 12:47 pm to
quote:

The NFL guys hate their system for OT and hate the coins toss deciding the out come.
Thats not really true, coaches and owners have meet every year to discuss rule changes and they've never changed the rule until 2010 and even then only for playoff games. NFL coaches appear to like the NFL rule.
Posted by willeteal
Texarkana
Member since Aug 2010
2245 posts
Posted on 11/11/11 at 12:47 pm to


Good debate.

it would be interesting to see how many college OTs are decided by the coin toss as well.


We all agree that Saban is a little bitch though.







Posted by Y.A. Tittle
Member since Sep 2003
109557 posts
Posted on 11/11/11 at 12:49 pm to
quote:

it would be interesting to see how many college OTs are decided by the coin toss as well.


How exactly would you determine that a college overtime (given its format) is "decided by the coin toss"?

Seems impossible really.

ETA, I guess I see what you're saying though. Is there any correlation between winning the OT coin toss and winning the game in OT? I would bet there's none.
This post was edited on 11/11/11 at 12:51 pm
Posted by drexyl
Mingovia
Member since Sep 2005
23323 posts
Posted on 11/11/11 at 12:55 pm to
quote:

We all agree that Saban is a little bitch though.
right we're all in agreement re: saban's bitch level being at an all time high. It has turned into an interesting offseason/WKU type of thread.
Posted by ScoopAndScore
baton rouge
Member since Oct 2008
12284 posts
Posted on 11/11/11 at 12:59 pm to
quote:

to complain about not having NFL-style overtime

So he really would've preferred that the punting game could have impacted OT. Interesting.
Posted by bradwieser
Cornell Fan
Member since May 2008
10555 posts
Posted on 11/11/11 at 1:00 pm to
this site says that in CFB the winner of the flip wins 52% of the time.

actually it says the team who starts on defense (in any given OT period) has a 52% probability of winning.

conversely they say in NFL coin flip winner has 57% probability of winning (but not necessarily on opening drive)
Posted by tigerinridgeland
Mississippi
Member since Aug 2006
7700 posts
Posted on 11/11/11 at 1:02 pm to
Is is significant that in college OT teams often defer starting on offense in OT, whereas, that doesn't happen in the NFL for obvious reasons?
Posted by Hugo Stiglitz
Member since Oct 2010
72937 posts
Posted on 11/11/11 at 1:06 pm to
"But if you kick off to them and they get it to the 30 and you can't stop them until they get in field-goal range, you ought to lose," Saban said.

If you get the ball at the 25 and can't get any points...you ought to lose as well.
Posted by KCinDC
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Jan 2007
1537 posts
Posted on 11/11/11 at 1:08 pm to
If he wanted NFL overtime, he should have just stayed in the NFL.....
Posted by Y.A. Tittle
Member since Sep 2003
109557 posts
Posted on 11/11/11 at 1:15 pm to
quote:

this site says that in CFB the winner of the flip wins 52% of the time.



I wonder how that compares to the correlation of winning the coin toss at the start of the game and winning the game.
Posted by Hugo Stiglitz
Member since Oct 2010
72937 posts
Posted on 11/11/11 at 1:21 pm to
fact: The team that wins the coin toss at the beginning of the game wins 51% of the time.
Posted by Brew Drees
Miss. Gulf Coast
Member since May 2011
2244 posts
Posted on 11/11/11 at 1:28 pm to
he's such a little sourpuss..had bama won he would have said how much greater college overtime is compared to the pros..fricking toolbag
Posted by RBWilliams8
Member since Oct 2009
53905 posts
Posted on 11/11/11 at 1:33 pm to
quote:

Posted by WDE24 on 11/11 at 8:59 am to APIEE quote: Saban on his soapbox again... He is just trying to reach his little debbies on the top shelf. This post was edited on 11/11 at 9:00 am Post Reply • Back to Top


This post was edited on 11/11/11 at 1:37 pm
Posted by tigerinridgeland
Mississippi
Member since Aug 2006
7700 posts
Posted on 11/11/11 at 1:37 pm to
quote:

fact: The team that wins the coin toss at the beginning of the game wins 51% of the time.


Is that enough to be regarded as statistically significant? It doesn't seem to me that it is, but i will defer to those who are more knowledgable on statistics.

That brings up a related question-
Is there any statistical correlation in the decision to defer receiving the kickoff until the second half?

Was anyone surprised that Saban didn't defer Saturday?
Posted by RBWilliams8
Member since Oct 2009
53905 posts
Posted on 11/11/11 at 1:38 pm to
Does the dumb frick not realize that if it were NFL rules we still won the Toss. And we Wouldn't have deferred. Whiny little prick.
Posted by TheDoc
doc is no more
Member since Dec 2005
99297 posts
Posted on 11/11/11 at 1:38 pm to
quote:

If you get the ball at the 25 and can't get any points...you ought to lose as well.


This

LSU made bama go BACKWARDS with a big sack

THEN their kicker was forced into a long fg

Saban is a whiny little bitch and I hope bama loses to every other team on their schedule.
Posted by Crow Pie
Neuro ICU - Tulane Med Center
Member since Feb 2010
27121 posts
Posted on 11/11/11 at 1:41 pm to
Soooooooooo close
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