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re: Off-season topic: revisiting the ‘77 season
Posted on 6/29/24 at 4:36 pm to VagueMessage
Posted on 6/29/24 at 4:36 pm to VagueMessage
quote:
We were legitimately awarded the '64 championship by the FWAA and Helms. Helms is whatever, but the FWAA was a respected source at the time, and if I'm not mistaken, I think their poll still counts toward selecting All-American teams. The 1977 championship was awarded by FACT, which was also an accepted selector at the time, but most Hog fans don't claim that one even though we do technically have a legitimate claim. Especially considering how close the top five teams were in that year.
I don't blame Alabama for claiming 1964 since they have every right to, but neither of us can stop the other from claiming it. It's a championship awarded not only before a sanctioned championship game, but before a bowl at all was even played. So I don't know why anyone even cares enough to argue about it in 2024.
Sorry, but most schools just don't use FWAA for claiming National Championships. I think Ohio St is the only other school that has done it.
You can claim it, but I don't think it's legit.
1977 claim is for sure not legit. I can sympathize a little with you on 1964. I can't at all for 1977. It's a good thing Arkansas doesn't claim it.
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Posted on 6/29/24 at 4:42 pm to TexasTiger08
If it was up to me, I’d have given it to Arkansas — they objectively deserved it — but as the world is, if it’s tied overall, they’d give it to the team with the last big ! big win which is why ND got it.
Posted on 6/29/24 at 5:16 pm to theballguy
My much too long, not so CSB about the '78 Orange Bowl:
My dad is from Bradley County, AR (he's a Boll Weevil, played hoops at what is now UA-Monticello) and moved to South Florida in the late 50s as a teacher/coach. There just so happened to be a couple of other Arkansas guys who moved to the area as teachers/coaches and ended up at the same school (they played football at Henderson State). They, like everyone else from that state, were huge Hog fans. My grandmother, who still lived in Hermitage, was your typical rural Southern white woman at the time. She lived and breathed Arkansas Razorback football but had never seen them play in person. Fast forward to '77 and the Lou Holtz led team goes on a run and gets an Orange Bowl bid. My dad and his buddies got tix for the game for all of the families. My dad flew my grandmother down for the game - her first time seeing her beloved Razorbacks.
And then, to Holtz's eternal credit, he suspended his two best offensive players including the starting RB. The Hogs were also matched up against the Switzer-led Sooners wishbone attack. Oklahoma in the 70s was an absolute machine - probably the only other program on Alabama's level during the decade. So, things weren't looking great for the Hogs.
Given that dad and his buddies were just public school coaches, we didn't exactly have 50 yard line seats. In fact, we were in the upper deck of one of the end zones. But, in one of those great things that happen, almost all of the Hogs scoring was on our end of the field so my grandmother could see it as Arkansas just demolished OU. And Roland Sales ran himself into Hog history with an OB record for rushing. Just a great night for my grandmother that she cherished for the rest of her life.
My dad is from Bradley County, AR (he's a Boll Weevil, played hoops at what is now UA-Monticello) and moved to South Florida in the late 50s as a teacher/coach. There just so happened to be a couple of other Arkansas guys who moved to the area as teachers/coaches and ended up at the same school (they played football at Henderson State). They, like everyone else from that state, were huge Hog fans. My grandmother, who still lived in Hermitage, was your typical rural Southern white woman at the time. She lived and breathed Arkansas Razorback football but had never seen them play in person. Fast forward to '77 and the Lou Holtz led team goes on a run and gets an Orange Bowl bid. My dad and his buddies got tix for the game for all of the families. My dad flew my grandmother down for the game - her first time seeing her beloved Razorbacks.
And then, to Holtz's eternal credit, he suspended his two best offensive players including the starting RB. The Hogs were also matched up against the Switzer-led Sooners wishbone attack. Oklahoma in the 70s was an absolute machine - probably the only other program on Alabama's level during the decade. So, things weren't looking great for the Hogs.
Given that dad and his buddies were just public school coaches, we didn't exactly have 50 yard line seats. In fact, we were in the upper deck of one of the end zones. But, in one of those great things that happen, almost all of the Hogs scoring was on our end of the field so my grandmother could see it as Arkansas just demolished OU. And Roland Sales ran himself into Hog history with an OB record for rushing. Just a great night for my grandmother that she cherished for the rest of her life.
Posted on 6/29/24 at 5:18 pm to SoFla Tideroller
Awesome story. Thanks for sharing.
This post was edited on 6/29/24 at 5:19 pm
Posted on 6/29/24 at 5:29 pm to 18mph
I think “voting” sort of always had a “what did I see last” bias.
I actually miss the messiness of that era.
I actually miss the messiness of that era.
Posted on 6/29/24 at 5:32 pm to 3down10
quote:
You can claim it, but I don't think it's legit.
Even the ncaa recognizes it. Who cares what you think.
Posted on 6/29/24 at 5:46 pm to 3down10
Schools to claim national championships using the NFF (MacArthur Bowl) and FWAA (Grantland Rice Trophy):
1960 Ole Miss (FWAA)
1961 Ohio State (FWAA)
1964 Arkansas (FWAA)
1966 Michigan State (co-NFF)
1970 Ohio State (co-NFF)
Both are recognized entities in the overall history of college football but are second tier selectors for the national title. AP and UPI/Coaches/BCS were the top tier selectors.
1960 Ole Miss (FWAA)
1961 Ohio State (FWAA)
1964 Arkansas (FWAA)
1966 Michigan State (co-NFF)
1970 Ohio State (co-NFF)
Both are recognized entities in the overall history of college football but are second tier selectors for the national title. AP and UPI/Coaches/BCS were the top tier selectors.
Posted on 6/29/24 at 5:48 pm to theballguy
Arkansas was an 18 point underdog against Oklahoma. When word got out that starters Danny Bobo and Ben Cowins were suspended for the game, the point spread increased to 24.
Everyone was talking about not only would Oklahoma would beat Arkansas, the talk was how much Oklahoma needed to beat Arkansas in such a convincing way to become the champs.
Arkansas began the year unranked and was overlooked until the last seconds of the Orange Bowl. They didn't have all the all Americans nor the plentiful draft picks like other programs that year but they had one of the best defenses that year. The team was composed of blue collar Arkansas players that never got drafted but they were gritty and tenacious, played lights out on every snap. Many of them got little interest from other schools like Jimmy Walker. Led by one of the best motivational speakers in college football history Lou Holtz, Arkansas believed they are a better team than what the nation was giving them credit for. Even during the spanking of Oklahoma during the game, the announcers didn't pay much attention to Arkansas until the
very end.
Everyone was talking about not only would Oklahoma would beat Arkansas, the talk was how much Oklahoma needed to beat Arkansas in such a convincing way to become the champs.
Arkansas began the year unranked and was overlooked until the last seconds of the Orange Bowl. They didn't have all the all Americans nor the plentiful draft picks like other programs that year but they had one of the best defenses that year. The team was composed of blue collar Arkansas players that never got drafted but they were gritty and tenacious, played lights out on every snap. Many of them got little interest from other schools like Jimmy Walker. Led by one of the best motivational speakers in college football history Lou Holtz, Arkansas believed they are a better team than what the nation was giving them credit for. Even during the spanking of Oklahoma during the game, the announcers didn't pay much attention to Arkansas until the
very end.
Posted on 6/29/24 at 5:48 pm to Clark14
quote:
Even the ncaa recognizes it.
The NCAA "recognizes" all sorts of minor polls it would be incredibly embarrassing to count as a national title
Posted on 6/29/24 at 5:56 pm to jonnyanony
quote:
The NCAA "recognizes" all sorts of minor polls it would be incredibly embarrassing to count as a national title
Only it’s not, Arkansas was the only undefeated team after that season and bama lost to badly to a team we beat during the season. It was such an injustice that the rules were changed.
It’s embarrassing for you to not be able to understand what happened.
Arkansas was deservingly recognized and should have been.
Posted on 6/29/24 at 6:01 pm to 3down10
Found the butt-hurt Alabama fan.
Posted on 6/29/24 at 6:11 pm to rtr23242526
Ivan Maisels book of lists.
.most bogus natties..Notre dame 66 77 both in top 5
.most bogus natties..Notre dame 66 77 both in top 5
Posted on 6/29/24 at 7:16 pm to 3down10
A team doesn't wait around on trying to be rewarded, that is determined on the field.
That 64 team had to beat Texas who was superior to Alabama at that time. They also had to face a integrated Nebraska team that according to former Razorback players was bigger and stronger than them. However the smaller and quicker Razorbacks had a 80 TD drive late in the fourth quarter that clinched them the victory.
That 64 team had to beat Texas who was superior to Alabama at that time. They also had to face a integrated Nebraska team that according to former Razorback players was bigger and stronger than them. However the smaller and quicker Razorbacks had a 80 TD drive late in the fourth quarter that clinched them the victory.
Posted on 6/29/24 at 8:25 pm to 3down10
Well, knock yourself out. You can have the national championship Arkansas won by going undefeated, when you lost your bowl game to a team Arkansas beat. You don't sound at all stupid and I'm not losing sleep over a split natty from 60 years ago. The Arkansas teams I'm actually alive to see are in no danger of being snubbed for a championship, so this is the lowest stakes sports discussion I'll have all year. It just shocks me how much people argue over which unofficial national championships from 50-100 years ago are the least unofficial today.
Posted on 6/29/24 at 8:31 pm to Clark14
quote:
Even the ncaa recognizes it. Who cares what you think.
The NCAA does not recognize national championships. If you think they do, please show me the process and rules they have made in order to decide which championships are legitimate or not.
What they have is a website where some editor just puts out a list where they will put anything schools claim on there.
Posted on 6/29/24 at 8:34 pm to Larry Seinfeld
I know that it's not that predictive. But the OU team that Arkansas crushed, crushed the Nebraska team that Bama lost to just before the regular season ended.
Posted on 6/29/24 at 8:39 pm to VagueMessage
quote:
Well, knock yourself out. You can have the national championship Arkansas won by going undefeated, when you lost your bowl game to a team Arkansas beat. You don't sound at all stupid and I'm not losing sleep over a split natty from 60 years ago. The Arkansas teams I'm actually alive to see are in no danger of being snubbed for a championship, so this is the lowest stakes sports discussion I'll have all year. It just shocks me how much people argue over which unofficial national championships from 50-100 years ago are the least unofficial today.
You think I'm not counting it because of Alabama?
I counted split titles, so Arkansas claiming it makes no difference to the Alabama numbers.
I'm not counting it because you don't have an AP or Coaches poll on the claim. Some say the FWAA was legitimate, but I don't remember it that way in the 70's or 80's. They decide their rankings based on a 5 member committee. Sorry, it just doesn't seem legit to me.
This post was edited on 6/29/24 at 8:40 pm
Posted on 6/29/24 at 8:44 pm to TexasTiger08
‘77 Bama may have been most talented team Bear had.
Posted on 6/29/24 at 8:45 pm to dchog
quote:
A team doesn't wait around on trying to be rewarded, that is determined on the field.
That 64 team had to beat Texas who was superior to Alabama at that time. They also had to face a integrated Nebraska team that according to former Razorback players was bigger and stronger than them. However the smaller and quicker Razorbacks had a 80 TD drive late in the fourth quarter that clinched them the victory.
Bowl games did not count in 1964. They were exhibition games. Your arguments based on bowl game outcomes don't have any meaning.
Funny enough, they counted in 1965 because people were mad about Alabama. Alabama won it's bowl game and then the national championship, while Arkansas lost their bowl game.
In 1966, they stopped counting bowl games again because they were butt hurt about Alabama. But that would only last a few years, and the coaches would change in 71 because of being butt hurt about Alabama.
It's a matter of history.
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