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Manziel vs Burrow - How two remarkable athletes are on opposite trajectories
Posted on 1/22/20 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 1/22/20 at 2:32 pm
Note: I realize that Burrow has yet to take an NFL snap and will likely end up on a very bad football team. That said, here are a few reasons why Manziel failed and why Burrow is set to succeed at the NFL level if given adequate time and weapons.
1. Work Ethic
Burrow has demonstrated a willingness to learn new systems. His focus has been on improving his game (as seen in the transition from 2018 to 2019), utilizing his weapons and his coaches.
Manziel did not - seeing more of a regression after his RS Freshman year, as teams adapted but he refused to do so.
2. Staying in the pocket
While QBs who CAN scramble are very productive in the NFL, this cannot be their first instinct. NFL players are faster and better tacklers than even the best collegiate players; moving out of a pocket that has not yet even broken down is a recipe for disaster.
Burrow has demonstrated a willingness to stay in the pocket and continue through his progressions, while Manziel would often break almost immediately once his first read was not there.
3. Over reliance on a single target (or lack thereof)
One of the worst things for Manziel's longevity as a pro prospect was being able to throw to Mike Evans while at A&M. Evans bailed Manziel out of a lot of terrible decisions, including jump balls into triple coverage and sometimes blind throws without being able to adequately see anything that was going on.
Burrow did not pick a single WR and throw blindly to him. Burrow not only spread the wealth among a talented WR corps, but he did not put WRs in a position where they had to be a foot taller than the guy covering them to bail him out. Instead Burrow often led passes to allow for open WRs to stay open, hitting them in stride.
4. The System - A&M's Air Raid vs LSU's RPO
A&M incorporated an Air Raid, and when coupled with Manziel would more often resemble that of backyard football - WRs eventually would break off routes because their QB was already out of the pocket. Manziel rarely had to read defenses because he would throw into the random chaos. This would serve him poorly at the NFL level, as each scramble would lead to getting destroyed by a defensive end or linebacker.
LSU ran an RPO that focused more on the "P" than the "R", and Burrow often would go through a full set of progressions. Burrow did not force his WRs to scramble like chickens during a wolf attack; his calm in the pocket allowed them to run their routes and gave him the opportunity to see those players that were breaking free from their coverage.
5. Nature vs Nurture
Manziel was generating huge numbers before he was 20 years old. Living the party style, he rarely had to work hard compared to others in a similar position - getting away with all sorts of terrible behavior, with no apparent checks or role models.
Burrow grew into his amazing season. Still a gifted athlete, Burrow worked hard and it has shown with a "I'm just blessed to be here" mentality that was clearly on display when he managed to use his podium at the Heisman trophy presentation to generate money for his hometown's food bank.
To sum up:
Manziel was "show ME the money"
Burrow is "show THEM the money, I'm good"
At the end, we don't know if Burrow will be an NFL star, a journeyman, or flame out. I think his prospects look good, especially considering other flaws for Manziel - below average arm strength, height, etc - are not present for Burrow who is the right height and possesses arm strength AT LEAST on par with other NFL QBs.
Two guys who had amazing Heisman winning seasons as QBs while setting a ton of records in the SEC.
Two very different trajectories for them.
1. Work Ethic
Burrow has demonstrated a willingness to learn new systems. His focus has been on improving his game (as seen in the transition from 2018 to 2019), utilizing his weapons and his coaches.
Manziel did not - seeing more of a regression after his RS Freshman year, as teams adapted but he refused to do so.
2. Staying in the pocket
While QBs who CAN scramble are very productive in the NFL, this cannot be their first instinct. NFL players are faster and better tacklers than even the best collegiate players; moving out of a pocket that has not yet even broken down is a recipe for disaster.
Burrow has demonstrated a willingness to stay in the pocket and continue through his progressions, while Manziel would often break almost immediately once his first read was not there.
3. Over reliance on a single target (or lack thereof)
One of the worst things for Manziel's longevity as a pro prospect was being able to throw to Mike Evans while at A&M. Evans bailed Manziel out of a lot of terrible decisions, including jump balls into triple coverage and sometimes blind throws without being able to adequately see anything that was going on.
Burrow did not pick a single WR and throw blindly to him. Burrow not only spread the wealth among a talented WR corps, but he did not put WRs in a position where they had to be a foot taller than the guy covering them to bail him out. Instead Burrow often led passes to allow for open WRs to stay open, hitting them in stride.
4. The System - A&M's Air Raid vs LSU's RPO
A&M incorporated an Air Raid, and when coupled with Manziel would more often resemble that of backyard football - WRs eventually would break off routes because their QB was already out of the pocket. Manziel rarely had to read defenses because he would throw into the random chaos. This would serve him poorly at the NFL level, as each scramble would lead to getting destroyed by a defensive end or linebacker.
LSU ran an RPO that focused more on the "P" than the "R", and Burrow often would go through a full set of progressions. Burrow did not force his WRs to scramble like chickens during a wolf attack; his calm in the pocket allowed them to run their routes and gave him the opportunity to see those players that were breaking free from their coverage.
5. Nature vs Nurture
Manziel was generating huge numbers before he was 20 years old. Living the party style, he rarely had to work hard compared to others in a similar position - getting away with all sorts of terrible behavior, with no apparent checks or role models.
Burrow grew into his amazing season. Still a gifted athlete, Burrow worked hard and it has shown with a "I'm just blessed to be here" mentality that was clearly on display when he managed to use his podium at the Heisman trophy presentation to generate money for his hometown's food bank.
To sum up:
Manziel was "show ME the money"
Burrow is "show THEM the money, I'm good"
At the end, we don't know if Burrow will be an NFL star, a journeyman, or flame out. I think his prospects look good, especially considering other flaws for Manziel - below average arm strength, height, etc - are not present for Burrow who is the right height and possesses arm strength AT LEAST on par with other NFL QBs.
Two guys who had amazing Heisman winning seasons as QBs while setting a ton of records in the SEC.
Two very different trajectories for them.
Posted on 1/22/20 at 3:00 pm to skrayper
This post was edited on 1/22/20 at 3:01 pm
Posted on 1/22/20 at 3:05 pm to skrayper
Cokehead Manziel relied on talent alone to carry him.
Unfortunately for him, talent alone won't net you a QB roster spot.
BD Joe put in the work
Unfortunately for him, talent alone won't net you a QB roster spot.
BD Joe put in the work
Posted on 1/22/20 at 3:08 pm to skrayper
quote:
Manziel did not - seeing more of a regression after his RS Freshman year, as teams adapted but he refused to do so.
Manziel had more completions (+5), more yards (+408), a greater completion percentage (69.9% as compared to 68.0%) and more touchdown passes (+11) in 2013 than he did in 2012. He rushed far fewer times in 2013 (-57) for fewer yards (-641) and touchdowns (-12) due to an added emphasis on staying in the pocket.
quote:
One of the worst things for Manziel's longevity as a pro prospect was being able to throw to Mike Evans while at A&M. Evans bailed Manziel out of a lot of terrible decisions, including jump balls into triple coverage and sometimes blind throws without being able to adequately see anything that was going on.
In 2012, Mike Evans had 82 receptions and Ryan Swope 72. The receiver with the third-most receptions that season had 31.
In 2013, Mike Evans had 69 receptions, Malcome Kennedy 60, Derel Walker 51 and Travis Labhart 51.
The 2013 season stats for A&M and Manziel pretty much invalidate this point of yours.
What you need to also look at is that Manziel was 21 years old when he left for the NFL. Burrow is approaching 29.
Posted on 1/22/20 at 3:10 pm to StopRobot
StopRobot - that is an awesome gif.
Posted on 1/22/20 at 3:11 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
And then when teams finally put on the LSU film and made him actually play QB, he was white dog shite.
Now he is strictly known for diving into low-grade cocaine and beating up white girls.
Now he is strictly known for diving into low-grade cocaine and beating up white girls.
Posted on 1/22/20 at 3:14 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:Burrow is 23 and not a coke head that’s been disowned by his family for being such a piece of shite
Burrow is approaching 29.
This post was edited on 1/22/20 at 3:17 pm
Posted on 1/22/20 at 3:14 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
quote: Manziel did not - seeing more of a regression after his RS Freshman year, as teams adapted but he refused to do so. Manziel had more completions (+5), more yards (+408), a greater completion percentage (69.9% as compared to 68.0%) and more touchdown passes (+11) in 2013 than he did in 2012. He rushed far fewer times in 2013 (-57) for fewer yards (-641) and touchdowns (-12) due to an added emphasis on staying in the pocket. quote: One of the worst things for Manziel's longevity as a pro prospect was being able to throw to Mike Evans while at A&M. Evans bailed Manziel out of a lot of terrible decisions, including jump balls into triple coverage and sometimes blind throws without being able to adequately see anything that was going on. In 2012, Mike Evans had 82 receptions and Ryan Swope 72. The receiver with the third-most receptions that season had 31. In 2013, Mike Evans had 69 receptions, Malcome Kennedy 60, Derel Walker 51 and Travis Labhart 51. The 2013 season stats for A&M and Manziel pretty much invalidate this point of yours. What you need to also look at is that Manziel was 21 years old when he left for the NFL. Burrow is approaching 29.
Other than ALL OF THAT mrs Kennedy, how was the parade?
Posted on 1/22/20 at 3:14 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
Manziel had more completions (+5), more yards (+408), a greater completion percentage (69.9% as compared to 68.0%) and more touchdown passes (+11) in 2013 than he did in 2012. He rushed far fewer times in 2013 (-57) for fewer yards (-641) and touchdowns (-12) due to an added emphasis on staying in the pocket.
Multiple INTs because of poor decisions cost A&M close games against both Alabama and Auburn.
In his last two games before the bowl game, he had gotten worse - LSU held him under 40% completion and Missouri held him under 200 yards passing.
quote:
In 2012, Mike Evans had 82 receptions and Ryan Swope 72. The receiver with the third-most receptions that season had 31.
In 2013, Mike Evans had 69 receptions, Malcome Kennedy 60, Derel Walker 51 and Travis Labhart 51.
I never said he didn't throw to those other players; I'm saying he relied on Mike Evans to bail him out. A LOT. He still scrambled often - those scrambles led to both TDs and INTs against Alabama, for example, including one returned for a TD.
quote:
What you need to also look at is that Manziel was 21 years old when he left for the NFL. Burrow is approaching 29.
Which would be fair if no other 21 year old had failed so thoroughly at the NFL level.
Plenty of 21 year olds make it there and succeed, because of established work ethic. Burrow is 23, btw. Those are some damned impressive 2 years if they magically transformed Burrow from a Manziel-esque trajectory to his current one.
Posted on 1/22/20 at 3:22 pm to skrayper
Good post. Although, this part was a bit... weird.
That doesn't seem super necessary.
quote:
I, skyraper, love Joe Burrow - almost as much as I love laying naked with various farm animals.
That doesn't seem super necessary.
Posted on 1/22/20 at 3:24 pm to skrayper
quote:
Plenty of 21 year olds make it there and succeed,
I thought he was 20.
He bypassed his RS JR & SR seasons.
Regardless, I can’t think of any kids that young who were mentally ill and battling substance addictions who lived alone and succeeded.
I wouldn’t have.
A huge part of it is on his parents—they’ve admitted as much.
He was/is a great athlete.
But it wasn’t meant to be for him.
Right now he just needs to continue working on getting better.
He’s filled with regret and contrition, and I pray he continues down the path towards responsibility and discernment that he currently walks.
I would be surprised if Burrow doesn’t succeed as a professional athlete.
I wish him all the best on an exciting and fulfilling future.
Posted on 1/22/20 at 3:29 pm to WilliamTaylor21
quote:
Good post. Although, this part was a bit... weird.
quote:
I, skyraper, love Joe Burrow - almost as much as I love laying naked with various farm animals.
That doesn't seem super necessary.
Man, I miss when you were actually funny.
Posted on 1/22/20 at 3:48 pm to skrayper
You will not find many Aggies who will defend JFF.
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