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re: Is Brian Kelly an upgrade to Ed Oregon?
Posted on 4/10/25 at 11:06 pm to SidewalkTiger
Posted on 4/10/25 at 11:06 pm to SidewalkTiger
quote:
They went from 3-9 to a national championship appearance, that seems much better off.
The high water mark of Malzahn’s tenure was a national championship appearance. The high water mark of Gene Chizik’s tenure was a national championship.
Everyone loves to talk about what shitty coaches Chizik and Orgeron each were. But their records show each had an undefeated season, 14-0 and 15-0 respectively, and each won a national championship. Not many people alive can claim that. The coaches that followed them certainly can not.
They had trouble holding it together after reaching the pinnacle. But at least they reached it.
Neither school they coached at has been able to do it again since they were fired. But Auburn did spend $44.2 million on the buyouts of Chizik, Malzahn and Harsin. LSU only spent $17 million on Orgeron’s buyout, but Kelly’s is still north of $50 million.
Was it worth $61 million in buyout money, approximately $4 million per season for each school, for what Auburn and LSU have achieved post Chizik and Orgeron. LSU spent around $46 million the last three seasons to go 29-11. But at least they had winning seasons. That is more than Auburn can say they got for the $101 million they spent on salaries and buyouts since Chizik.
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Posted on 4/10/25 at 11:14 pm to captdalton
quote:
The high water mark of Malzahn’s tenure was a national championship appearance. The high water mark of Gene Chizik’s tenure was a national championship.
Everyone loves to talk about what shitty coaches Chizik and Orgeron each were. But their records show each had an undefeated season, 14-0 and 15-0 respectively, and each won a national championship. Not many people alive can claim that. The coaches that followed them certainly can not.
You can't employ a coach just based on his actual or perceived high water mark. You have to take into account his entire body of work, with an emphasis on the most recent results.
quote:
Was it worth $61 million in buyout money, approximately $4 million per season for each school, for what Auburn and LSU have achieved post Chizik and Orgeron.
I can't speak for Auburn but it absolutely has been for LSU. Orgeron would be an even larger dumpster fire in the current NIL/portal landscape.
quote:
But at least they had winning seasons. That is more than Auburn can say they got for the $101 million they spent on salaries and buyouts since Chizik.
You're focusing on Chizik but Auburn's mistake was probably cutting Gus loose too soon after a big extension, then a subsequent bad hire in Harsin.
I also don't understand why you're somewhat insistent that LSU or Auburn should keep a coach that is going .500 or less yet you seem to also believe that someone like BK is a bad coach or something.
Seems like a contradiction.
Posted on 4/11/25 at 12:22 am to UFFan
Ed O didn’t grind on dudes.
Posted on 4/11/25 at 9:10 am to captdalton
quote:
Speaking of Chizik, how much better off did Auburn end up being firing him after one losing season?
Malzahn was far more consistent than Chizik. Not trying to tell you he was great, but Chizik's teams after that title stunk....bad. None of Malzahn's were ever as bad as those two.
Chizik is only coach I know of since I've been alive that won a national title at the FBS level and doesn't have an overall winning college coaching record. That's hard to do.
Malzahn meets the criteria to be elected to the CFB HOF as a coach. .600 or better winning pct over ten seasons of coaching. Not saying he should get in, but sometimes making a championship "the end all, be all" is not right. Is Jalen Hurts better than Dan Marino now?
This post was edited on 4/11/25 at 9:50 am
Posted on 4/11/25 at 9:11 am to Mizzou fan in GA
No. He would just grind on the boosters' wives.
quote:
Ed O didn’t grind on dudes.
This post was edited on 4/11/25 at 9:12 am
Posted on 4/11/25 at 9:43 am to koreandawg
quote:
Malzahn was far more consistent than Chizik. Not trying to tell you he was great, but Chizik's teams after that title stunk....bad. None of Malzahn's were ever as bad as those two.
Chizik is only coach I know of since I've been alive that won a national title at the FBS level and doesn't have an overall winning college coaching record. That's hard to do.
Malzahn meets the criteria to be elected to the CFB HOF as a coach. .600 or better winning pct over ten seasons of coaching. Not saying he should get in, but sometimes making a championship isn't the end all, be all is not right. Is Jalen Hurts better than Dan Marino now?
Exactly.
And Gus did make a championship, he just didn't win it, vs a vastly more talented team.
Posted on 4/11/25 at 9:50 am to UFFan
Yes, he's upgrade. Coach O had the benefit of being the HC when some of LSU's best players came through the program at one time. Players matter and you can also look at his record at other stops when he didn't have that level of talent. Kelly, though he falls short in the big games, is more consistent in his success. He's going to get a team 9 wins at least every year. His issue is getting over that hump of being stuck in the 9-10 win range and losing games he's not supposed to.
Posted on 4/11/25 at 9:52 am to NWLA_Bama
quote:
Yes, he's upgrade. Coach O had the benefit of being the HC when some of LSU's best players came through the program at one time. Players matter and you can also look at his record at other stops when he didn't have that level of talent. Kelly, though he falls short in the big games, is more consistent in his success. He's going to get a team 9 wins at least every year. His issue is getting over that hump of being stuck in the 9-10 win range and losing games he's not supposed to.
The better question would be is he better than Miles, another guy they fired.
Posted on 4/11/25 at 10:08 am to NWLA_Bama
quote:
losing games he's not supposed to
This is basically the crux of the issue with BK.
He hasn't won a championship and loses games he shouldn't, just like every other coach in this conference (other than Kirby).
Posted on 4/11/25 at 10:11 am to koreandawg
quote:
Not trying to tell you he was great, but Chizik's teams after that title stunk
Chizik only coached one season after he won the national championship. Yeah it sucked, he went 3-9. And Auburn fired him.
It is clear that Chizik was not able to keep his team the next year hungry and focused. In fact, he himself very well may have rested on his laurels. But that is human nature. Very few people are able to retain their focus and drive after a huge achievement. People want to celebrate. People want to take a break. That was Nick Saban’s greatest attribute. That is Kirby Smart’s greatest attribute. They have a superhuman drive AND the ability to translate that focus to their team. Maybe neither Chizik nor Orgeron would have ever regained that hungry and drive. But maybe they would have.
Maybe Gene Chizik would have continued to have losing seasons. But who knows? Auburn fired him one season removed from a national championship.
The same happened with O, only he was given two seasons. But one of those was 2020, so it was an anamoly. One way to look at that season is he went .500 overall. But that was an all SEC schedule. In a normal season, if he had gone 4-4 in the SEC and 4-0 or even 3-1 in out of conference games he would have finished 8-4 or 7-5. The narrative around him would have been completely different. And who knows, with a normal season and normal recruiting, he might not have gone 6-6 in 2021. He was hurt in 2020 too because LSU’s best player Chase opted out the entire season.
My point is that as bad as Chizik and Orgeron may have been, they did win national championships. Yet despite this, each was fired less than two years later. The amount of money spent on buyouts and salaries by those two schools trying to find another national championship winning coach has been roughly $150 million dollars. Maybe I am just poor, but $150 million dollars is a lot. And that is just on the head coach, including staffs it is well over $200 million. That seems like a lot of money for 2 west division titles, one SEC title, and zero playoff or NY6 bowl wins.
Posted on 4/11/25 at 10:13 am to UFFan
Maybe Florida can put on a national seminar about how to hire football coaches to insure consistent success.
Posted on 4/11/25 at 11:03 am to captdalton
quote:
My point is that as bad as Chizik and Orgeron may have been, they did win national championships. Yet despite this, each was fired less than two years later. The amount of money spent on buyouts and salaries by those two schools trying to find another national championship
LSU fans are very appreciative to Coach O for bringing in Joe Burrow and for providing us the 2019 dream season.
We can all appreciate him greatly, but still be very happy that he was fired after the 2021 season. He was highly distracted, not motivated any longer to do the grind necessary for a head coach to succeed in the SEC. He hired very poorly after a huge portion of our asst coaches left after the 2019 season. It was time for him to go.
I wasn’t that happy with the Brian Kelly hire. I wanted a younger coach. But… as a fan, no one asked me, nor cared about my opinion one bit. So.. as a fan of LSU, I’m going to hope and wish that any coach leading our program succeeds.
Kelly, regardless of what fans of other programs that don’t follow LSU closely, inherited a mess. He did an amazing job assembling a patch work roster for the 2022 season in short order. No one thought, at the time, that Jayden Daniels would amount to anything. Fans on this forum laughed at the thought of skinny Jayden Daniels from ASU would amount to anything. Kelly, and his staff, did a remarkable job developing JD.
Kelley’s biggest mistake, by far, was not understanding the dynamics of Louisiana recruiting, and the importance of having a coaching staff with deep roots to Louisiana, the gulf south, and East Texas. That mistake set our program 2 years behind. He learned from that mistake and assembled a significantly better staff together after the 2023 season. Our recruiting improved dramatically and after the 2024 season he was given the money to go out and sign high quality transfer players. This will be the first season under him, that LSU has a full roster capable of completing at the level expected of him.
Posted on 4/11/25 at 11:21 am to captdalton
quote:
Chizik only coached one season after he won the national championship. Yeah it sucked, he went 3-9. And Auburn fired him.
incorrect
Posted on 4/11/25 at 1:13 pm to koreandawg
You are correct, he went 8-5 after the national championship. He was fired after only one losing season though, I got that correct. Gene Chizik went:
09: 8-5
10: 14-0
11: 8-5
12: 3-9
Overall he went 33-19 (63.5%). Only one coach that proceeded him or followed him in modern history had a significantly higher winning percentage, Terry Bowden.. Auburn also fired him after his first losing season.. Chizik at least showed he had the ability to win a national championship when he had great players. A lot of coaches can’t say that. At some point you have to question whether it is the Auburn coaches fault or the program.
Jordan: 176-83-6 (66.4%)
Barfield: 29-25-1 (52.7%)
Dye: 99-39-4 (69.7%)
Bowden: 47-17-1 (72.3%)
Turberville: 85-40 (68%)
Chizik: 33-19 (63.5%)
Malzahn: 68-35 (66.0%)
Harsin: 9-12 (42.9%)
Freeze: 11-14 (44%)
Auburn’s stadium is named after Jordan. In 25 seaons he had 3 .500 seasons and 3 losing seasons. So 25% of the time he did not have a winning record. Barfield had 2 losing seasons in 5 years. Auburn’s field is named after Pat Dye. In twelve seasons at Auburn only nine of them were winning seasons. He had one .500 season and 2 losing seasons. So 25% of the time he did not have a winning season. Bowden had 1 losing season (and was immediately fired). Turberville had 2 losing seasons. Harsin had 2 losing seasons. Freeze has 2 losing seasons so far. Chizik had 1 losing season and was fired.
Everyone in this thread has pointed to Chizik’s losing season as proof that he sucks. I say that is just proof he coached at Auburn.
09: 8-5
10: 14-0
11: 8-5
12: 3-9
Overall he went 33-19 (63.5%). Only one coach that proceeded him or followed him in modern history had a significantly higher winning percentage, Terry Bowden.. Auburn also fired him after his first losing season.. Chizik at least showed he had the ability to win a national championship when he had great players. A lot of coaches can’t say that. At some point you have to question whether it is the Auburn coaches fault or the program.
Jordan: 176-83-6 (66.4%)
Barfield: 29-25-1 (52.7%)
Dye: 99-39-4 (69.7%)
Bowden: 47-17-1 (72.3%)
Turberville: 85-40 (68%)
Chizik: 33-19 (63.5%)
Malzahn: 68-35 (66.0%)
Harsin: 9-12 (42.9%)
Freeze: 11-14 (44%)
Auburn’s stadium is named after Jordan. In 25 seaons he had 3 .500 seasons and 3 losing seasons. So 25% of the time he did not have a winning record. Barfield had 2 losing seasons in 5 years. Auburn’s field is named after Pat Dye. In twelve seasons at Auburn only nine of them were winning seasons. He had one .500 season and 2 losing seasons. So 25% of the time he did not have a winning season. Bowden had 1 losing season (and was immediately fired). Turberville had 2 losing seasons. Harsin had 2 losing seasons. Freeze has 2 losing seasons so far. Chizik had 1 losing season and was fired.
Everyone in this thread has pointed to Chizik’s losing season as proof that he sucks. I say that is just proof he coached at Auburn.
Posted on 4/11/25 at 2:18 pm to captdalton
Malzahn's Auburn teams scared me the most as an Ole Miss fan. Never have I seen an offense that could score at any given moment and as quickly as they could.
Posted on 4/11/25 at 2:19 pm to captdalton
quote:
Overall he went 33-19 (63.5%). Only one coach that proceeded him or followed him in modern history had a significantly higher winning percentage, Terry Bowden.. Auburn also fired him after his first losing season.. Chizik at least showed he had the ability to win a national championship when he had great players. A lot of coaches can’t say that. At some point you have to question whether it is the Auburn coaches fault or the program.
Neither Chizik nor Orgeron were fired solely for their win/loss records.
The dysfunction surrounding both programs and the lack of belief that things would improve were more an issue than the records themselves.
Posted on 4/11/25 at 3:01 pm to SidewalkTiger
And both programs have run like well oiled machines since then…
Posted on 4/11/25 at 3:16 pm to captdalton
quote:
And both programs have run like well oiled machines since then…
Auburn was better under Gus and LSU has absolutely been better under BK.
Posted on 4/11/25 at 3:55 pm to SidewalkTiger
And yet the season that all LSU fans talk about is 2019 and the player all Auburn fans talk about is Cam Newton.
Posted on 4/11/25 at 4:06 pm to captdalton
quote:
And yet the season that all LSU fans talk about is 2019 and the player all Auburn fans talk about is Cam Newton.
Crazy things happen.
Larry Coker was a similar type coach.
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