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re: Has Kirby Smart passed Spurrier? I say ....
Posted on 1/17/23 at 10:58 am to 1801
Posted on 1/17/23 at 10:58 am to 1801
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not until he wins 4 more SEC trophies. Spurrier more decorated than KS through each of their first 7 seasons against SEC competition.
Against SEC competition? That ain't much of a comparison....if you are going to get into the weeds that far Kirby Smart is heads and shoulders above Steve Spurrier against Notre Dame. That means Smart is superior to Spurrier. Thats not the way it works though...because outside of conference games also count and some of those are against quality opponents. Spurrier played at least one of those every year against FSU during Spurrier's first 7 years and he lost 4 and tied one of those. He also lost to the likes of Nebraska, Notre Dame, Syracuse and was 3-4 in Bowl games in his first 7 years. Kirby Smart, meanwhile, has beat Notre Dame twice, Oklahoma, Michigan, Oregon, and Ohio State and is 5-1 in CFP games and 6-2 in bowl games. A 75% winning % for Smart and a 43% winning % for Spurrier against better than average competition in bowl games compared to Smart's winning % of 84.38% against all competition in his first 7 years compared to Spurrier's 82.95%. Smart is better against normal competition and better against better than average competition. Finally, with a month to prepare, Spurrier eeked out a 43% winning % in bowl games. Smart has a 86% winning % when given a month to prepare for a bowl game and a 67% winning % in bowl games when given a week or so to prepare. Spurrier never played back to back games against teams that finished the season in the top 4 and were ranked in the top 4 when he played them. Smart has done so 6 times losing once. It ain't close.
Spurrier was a heckuva coach in his era. He was on the cutting edge of a serious shift in the level of competition in college football and did very well. He also did not have to recruit his team EVERY year like Smart has to do and he NEVER had to win 2 games, back to back, with less than 10 days prep time, in order to win a natty....and he only managed to win one, and had a month to prepare to do so. The rest of the time he coached in bowl games he was 3-4 with a month to prepare. It ain't close. If he was 3-4 with a month to prepare its is pretty reasonable to assume he would not have faired well having to face another quality opponent in 7-10 days. Had he done so in 1996 he would have faced Ohio State with a week or so to prepare and the chances are pretty good he may have never won a natty. It ain't close.
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Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:00 am to WG_Dawg
Kirby - First coach to have 5 players taken in the first round of the NFL draft (all from the defense).
Kirby - First coach to have 15 players taken overall in the NFL draft.
Kirby - First coach to lose that much talent and parlay it immediately into an undefeated season and another National Championship.
Kirby - First coach to have 15 players taken overall in the NFL draft.
Kirby - First coach to lose that much talent and parlay it immediately into an undefeated season and another National Championship.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:07 am to Lonnie Utah
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Shane beamer didn't play two top 4 teams in the last 2 weeks of the season
Beamer beat Tennessee (#5) in Clemson (#6) in the last two weeks of the regular season. Nobody's going to put Beamer in GOAT coaches conversation. I'm not sure what the metric you're going for here is exactly...
Spurrier never had the opportunity to coach in the CFB playoffs. Apples to oranges.
Again, Beamer did not beat the #3 and #4 team the last 2 weeks of the season and did not beat the #1 and #2 team the last 2 weeks of the season....he beat #14 Notre Dame the last week of the season. The season includes bowl games. I suspect Spurrier probably has beaten 2 teams ranked in the top 4 at some point in season, but he never did it when the games were played and all the cards were on the table...when he did it those teams had been selected in the top 4 in a beauty contest. Smart did it on the field two years in a row.
Spurrier never had the opportunity to LOSE in the CFB playoffs....Smart has, 3 times, and has won 2 natty's. Spurrier had a rematch against a team they had lost to in the regular season with a month to prepare and won a natty. Had he then had to play another quality opponent who he had not seen, with a week to prepare, he may never have won a title. You are correct....its apples and oranges. Winning a BCS title was more impressive, most years, than winning a natty prior to the BCS, but doing so in the playoff era is infinitely more impressive. Smart has a better winning % against all competition in his first 7 years and is infinitely better in BIG games than spurrier was by almost 2-1. It is, like you say, apples and oranges....there is NO comparison. Smart wins hands down.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:11 am to AwgustaDawg
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Again, Beamer did not beat the #3 and #4 team the last 2 weeks of the season and did not beat the #1 and #2 team the last 2 weeks of the season.
Hey let's make up a stupid metric to make our coach look better!
quote:
Smart wins hands down.
Has Kirby been inducted into the College football hall of fame as either a player or a coach? Spurrier has....
This post was edited on 1/17/23 at 11:12 am
Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:23 am to Lonnie Utah
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But how is that innovative or transformative? Does it require some great football mind to figure that out?
On the 24/7 talent composite UGA is #1, only behind Alabama. From simply a talent perspective, they outclassed EVERY opponent they faced. They are expected to win every game. Many of the games are over before they begin. The one team that had a higher score than them, stumbled along the way.
I'd say that it's just being opportunistic.
What on earth does being innovative have to do with being the best at anything? Bell was innovative with the telephone...no one would use one of his innovations today. Smart does what every coach has always tried to do in CFB...get the best talent he can and coach it up and win games. He has done that at a higher level than Spurrier did and it ain't close. Was Spurrier innovative? Surely yes...so was Mike Leach. Mike Leach never won anything of importance but he was, without a doubt, innovative. At the end of the day coaches are judged on wins and losses, not innovation, unless that innovation puts them at the top in terms of wins and losses. Spurrier's innovations did not. In fact, Spurrier had a lower career winning % than Mark Richt, Phillip Fulmer, John Vaught, Wallace Wade, Bear Bryant, Nick Saban, Bob Neyland, and is only 4 spots ahead of Vince Dooley LOL.....and he is also begind Kirby Smart by about 20 spots. It ain't close. He was innovative...so was Mike Leach and Hal Mumme.
As far as innovators goes why not, he is the best that ever was...but as far as football coaches goes he is #53. Not great but not bad....
Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:26 am to Lonnie Utah
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Has Kirby been inducted into the College football hall of fame as either a player or a coach? Spurrier has....
Spurrier was the better college player, that is not what the question is, though.
As to Kirby not being in the College Hall of Fame, I assume you're trolling (again).
You cannot be inducted as a coach while you are still actively coaching.
Meanwhile, Richt has just been inducted and we are all in agreement that Smart is a better coach than Richt. So ... just the facts please.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:26 am to AwgustaDawg
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What on earth does being innovative have to do with being the best at anything?
It shows that your are smarter than everyone else that came before you, that's what.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:30 am to GoldenDawg
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As to Kirby not being in the College Hall of Fame, I assume you're trolling (again).
Then how is comparing what Spurrier couldn't do as a coach (compete in the playoff's) any different than the above comparison?
It's not.
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You cannot be inducted as a coach while you are still actively coaching.
Wrong.
Six coaches have been inducted into the hall of fame while still coaching: Chris Ault, Bobby Bowden, John Gagliardi, Joe Paterno, John Ralston, and Bill Snyder.
This post was edited on 1/17/23 at 11:31 am
Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:36 am to GoldenDawg
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we are all in agreement that Smart is a better coach than Richt.
Better coach or had more success? Those two things are the same thing...
This post was edited on 1/17/23 at 11:37 am
Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:38 am to Lonnie Utah
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Again, Beamer did not beat the #3 and #4 team the last 2 weeks of the season and did not beat the #1 and #2 team the last 2 weeks of the season.
Hey let's make up a stupid metric to make our coach look better!
I see...its stupid to point out that beating teams that were in the top 4 in the FINAL poll of the season, who got there by playing games on the field, is a better metric than beating teams that have won a beauty contest at some point during the season and have not had as many chances to lose as they would have at seasons end....and doing so in back to back games with a week or so to prepare.
Steve Spurrier was a helluva football player and earned the HOF. I doubt Smart will make it to the HOF as a player but he may...we was pretty good. He is definitely going to make it as a coach if he meets any criteria for length of career etc. Winning back to back titles is a small fraternity...there are 11 total coaches who have done it including Smart. 8 are in the HOF with Smart, Saban and Pete Caroll not being yet. All three will be some day.
What nary a one of those 11 has done, other than Kirby Smart, is won a national title, on the field, in an era where doing so requires winning games, back to back, against a team which is ranked in the top 4 when the game is played and will, most likely, end up the top 4 in the final poll in the end of the season. Most of those were split titles and many of them were titles in years with multiple champions....Smart is one of 11 to do it unanimously, on the field, in an era requiring winning 2 bowl games back to back. One of those coaches won back to back titles and did not play a single bowl game and is in the HOF. Spurrier never did it....
Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:42 am to Lonnie Utah
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It shows that your are smarter than everyone else that came before you, that's what.
A lot of folks have been innovative. Hitler was innovative yet severely misguided. Was he smarter than everyone else??? Of course not. Spurrier was indeed innovative and was indeed a fantastic football coach. So was Mike Leach and Hal Mumme. There's been a lot of them....Spurrier may be the best ever. But as a coach he isn't in the same sphere as Kirby Smart in his first 7 years and it ain't close.
What Spurrier did at USC was as impressive as any coaching job ever done anywhere. He is, like I have said repeatedly, a great coach.....he just ain't on par with Kirby Smart.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:42 am to meansonny
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Old or incapable?
He was like 70. I’d say that’s pretty old. Guys like Saban aren’t normal
Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:49 am to AwgustaDawg
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What nary a one of those 11 has done, other than Kirby Smart, is won a national title, on the field, in an era where doing so requires winning games, back to back, against a team which is ranked in the top 4 when the game is played and will, most likely, end up the top 4 in the final poll in the end of the season. Most of those were split titles and many of them were titles in years with multiple champions....Smart is one of 11 to do it unanimously, on the field, in an era requiring winning 2 bowl games back to back. One of those coaches won back to back titles and did not play a single bowl game and is in the HOF. Spurrier never did it....
Well if you want to use the CFP as your metric, then the only logical conclusion one can draw is that Dabo is a better coach than Kirby Smart. Dabo has taken Clemson to the playoffs 6 times, the championship 4 times and won it all twice. Kirby's gone 3 times, made the championship 3 times and won it twice.
By extension, if we're going to put Dabo above Smart, as a better coach, one must look at how Dabo fared head to head against Spurrier, Dabo was 3-5 against SOS....
Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:50 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
AwgustaDawg
Did you just compare Spurrier to Hitler? I knew UGA fans hated him but....
This post was edited on 1/17/23 at 11:51 am
Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:50 am to AwgustaDawg
In summary---
1. Smart has a better winning % through 7 years.
2. Smart has a far superior bowl winning % through 7
years.
3. Smart has won back to back titles in an era where winning a title requires one to win back to back bowl games against teams ranked in the top 4 at the time of the game as well as, most likely (and most assuredly so in UGAs case) in the final poll of the season.
4. Smart is far and away the better recruiter because he is coaching in an era where you have to recruit your own team every year, not just once.
The only thing Spurrier appears to have had going for him was innovation and the pleasure of coaching in an era when the title was an enhanced beauty contest which required prepping for a quality opponent once with a month to do so instead of twice with a week to 10 days for the second one. Through 7 years there is no comparison, Smart is heads and shoulders above Spurrier. He may not be after 15 or so but through 7 he is and it ain't close.
1. Smart has a better winning % through 7 years.
2. Smart has a far superior bowl winning % through 7
years.
3. Smart has won back to back titles in an era where winning a title requires one to win back to back bowl games against teams ranked in the top 4 at the time of the game as well as, most likely (and most assuredly so in UGAs case) in the final poll of the season.
4. Smart is far and away the better recruiter because he is coaching in an era where you have to recruit your own team every year, not just once.
The only thing Spurrier appears to have had going for him was innovation and the pleasure of coaching in an era when the title was an enhanced beauty contest which required prepping for a quality opponent once with a month to do so instead of twice with a week to 10 days for the second one. Through 7 years there is no comparison, Smart is heads and shoulders above Spurrier. He may not be after 15 or so but through 7 he is and it ain't close.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:54 am to Lonnie Utah
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quote:
AwgustaDawg
Did you just compare Spurrier to Hitler?
No, I pointed out that Hitler was also an innovator, it didn't make him smarter than everyone else and it also did not ensure he was more successful than anyone. The same applies to Spurrier...he was without a doubt an innovator. It did not make him smarter than everyone else and it also did not make him more successful. There was a coach in the same state at the same time who was not innovative and just played football and had a winning record against Spurrier. He wasn't even the smartest football coach in Florida at the time...or the best, for that matter.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:58 am to Lonnie Utah
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Did you just compare Spurrier to Hitler? I knew UGA fans hated him but....
I no longer hate Spurrier LOL. I did, once upon a time, like most CFB fans at the time who weren't Gator fans. I admire what he accomplished at USC and I love the way he treated USC at the end...could not have ended better as it proved what a douche he was and it set USC back several years....thats a win win every day and twice on Sunday. I have since come to appreciate Spurrier's wit and take on CFB and why it shouldn't be taken so seriously....he is a great diplomat for the game. What he wasn't, at least in the first 7 years of his career, was a better coach than Kirby Smart...and it ain't close.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:58 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
The only thing Spurrier appears to have had going for him was innovation
Translation: Spurrier changed the game off football, and that will ALWAYS make him a better coach until Kirby does the same.
You evaluate based on wins and losses. That's not the metric I'm concerned with.
And finally, and this is 100% NOT trolling, with this next statement. I wouldn't put ANYBODY no matter what their record is on the field in the category of "Good Coach" that used the type of language that was contained in Kirby's pregame speech before the NCG. In my mind, coaches should set the example to the young men (and women if a female team) in their stead. The language contained in that did that in no way shape or form. While some folks may find it socially acceptable, for the vast majority of communications in the vast majority of situations it is not. It's why the networks have decency standards where those words aren't allowed. Kirby should be more self aware and hold himself to a higher standard. He could have made the exact same speech with the exact same impact without the curses. But he's not that dignified.
This post was edited on 1/17/23 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 1/17/23 at 12:04 pm to Lonnie Utah
quote:
Well if you want to use the CFP as your metric, then the only logical conclusion one can draw is that Dabo is a better coach than Kirby Smart. Dabo has taken Clemson to the playoffs 6 times, the championship 4 times and won it all twice. Kirby's gone 3 times, made the championship 3 times and won it twice.
By extension, if we're going to put Dabo above Smart, as a better coach, one must look at how Dabo fared head to head against Spurrier, Dabo was 3-5 against SOS....
Swinney has done so in 13 seasons. He is a far better coach than Spurrier and has a similar winning % as Smart overall and in bowl games. I will agree, if you are talking who is best among Swinney, Smart and Spurrier its Swinney and Smart and pick 'em and Spurrier pulling up the rear by a good margin. Smart has proven better than swinney though by winning back to back, going 29-1 over that stretch and putting 15 players in the NFL off the first of those natty rosters. Smart is also a much better recruiter than Swinney. The table is tilted toward Smart but Swinney is definitely better than Spurrier.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 12:06 pm to Lonnie Utah
Duke winning the ACC in football is most one of the most impressive achievements by any coach.
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