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re: Greatest TE in SEC history?
Posted on 6/20/23 at 11:36 am to FireDanMullen
Posted on 6/20/23 at 11:36 am to FireDanMullen
quote:
Talent scouts on ESPN say a lot of bullshite. There’s more to blocking as an offensive tackle than there is as a Tight end. The vast majority of blocking as a tight end is run blocking - which is completely different than pass blocking.
You’ve never once seen Washington drop into a pass blocking stance like a Left Tackle does so cherry picking off of what some commentator says on television during the NFL draft to fill up B roll is pretty baseless.
You'll probably see thus from LSU's new JUCO signee.
Connor Gilbreath. 6'6", 270 lb blocking TE that we just signed. He wants to play tackle, but he'll most certainly be a blocking TE for the next 2 years.
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Posted on 6/20/23 at 11:38 am to FireDanMullen
quote:
Talent scouts on ESPN say a lot of bull shite
Did I say espn scouts?
quote:
There’s more to blocking as an offensive tackle than there is as a Tight end.
Not necessarily. Darnell was locking up against opponents best pass rushers all the time last season. He pulled. Split zone. Reached. We asked him to do everything a tackle would be asked to do.
quote:
The vast majority of blocking as a tight end is run blocking - which is completely different than pass blocking.
Watch UGA 2022. We asked a lot of Darnell. The vast majority of tight end blocking is run blocking because other tight ends can't do what Darnell did. It is pretty simple with regards to play design and skill level of talent on the field.
quote:
You’ve never once seen Washington drop into a pass blocking stance like a Left Tackle does so cherry picking off of what some commentator says on television during the NFL draft to fill up B roll is pretty baseless.
Look. Every scout is subjective. Some scouts said Tebow was 1st round worthy. It is all subjective. I get it. I'm not claiming empirical data. What I am claiming is to watch the film. We would max protect with Darnell in obvious passing downs. The film holds up.
Posted on 6/20/23 at 11:39 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
it's still still to claim witten as one of the best TEs EVER in the HISTORY of the SEC
there aren't a lot to choose from before the past 10-15 years as they were largely an extra offensive lineman. A 400-500 yard season was elite-tier in other eras
For instance, David Lafluer was an AA in 1996 and a 1st round draft pick the following April after a season where he had 439 yards and 3 TDs. No one would even blink at those numbers today
This post was edited on 6/20/23 at 11:40 am
Posted on 6/20/23 at 11:39 am to koreandawg
Bowers is an amazing weapon...I'm just wondering what a Jason Witten would have done in that offense.
Posted on 6/20/23 at 11:44 am to koreandawg
He is already in the conversation as the GOAT in CFB history IMHO.
Next years stats will be gaudy as frick, and only add to the already ridiculous stats.
He should also be in the Heisman conversation next season.
Next years stats will be gaudy as frick, and only add to the already ridiculous stats.
He should also be in the Heisman conversation next season.
Posted on 6/20/23 at 11:45 am to TouchdownTony
quote:
Ozzie Newsome
102 receptions
2070 yds
20 yd per catch AVERAGE
Playing in the wishbone offense.
Playing in the wishbone helps a receiver on YPC if he's good.
He obviously was a heckuva receiver. But look at Bebe Thomas at Tech. Those offenses tend to get you open when you do pass because the defenses are never expecting it and really can't offer any help defending it for obvious reasons.
This post was edited on 6/20/23 at 11:46 am
Posted on 6/20/23 at 11:47 am to meansonny
Still a complete stretch to say a tight end who didn’t go 1st round with great pass catching and blocking skills could add 20 pounds and be a 1st round tackle? If his blocking skills were as good as a Tackles he would’ve been told to add weight and be a 1st round tackle. If he had both the skills of an elite tackle and a tight end he would’ve gone 1st round.
Doesn’t add up.
Doesn’t add up.
This post was edited on 6/20/23 at 11:49 am
Posted on 6/20/23 at 11:47 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
The pinnacle, absolute very BEST season witten ever had in college...saw him have 17 less catches, 389 less yards, and 9 less touchdowns than brock's WORST season so far.
He can't call the plays or throw the ball to himself...also, the TE does more than receive...a complete TE blocks, too. Witten was 2 inches taller and over 30 pounds heavier than Bowers. Last season, Bowers had 7 TDs...Witten had 5 in his last season at UT with 2 fewer games played than Bowers.
Posted on 6/20/23 at 11:49 am to koreandawg
quote:I don't know who it is but I seriously doubt he played in this century.
Greatest TE in SEC history?
Posted on 6/20/23 at 11:51 am to madmaxvol
quote:
Last season, Bowers had 7 TDs...Witten had 5 in his last season at UT with 2 fewer games played than Bowers.
Bowers had 10 TDs.
7 receiving. 3 rushing.
His career has 20 receiving and 4 rushing.
Posted on 6/20/23 at 12:23 pm to meansonny
quote:
He can't call the plays or throw the ball to himself...also, the TE does more than receive...a complete TE blocks, too. Witten was 2 inches taller and over 30 pounds heavier than Bowers. Last season, Bowers had 7 TDs...Witten had 5 in his last season at UT with 2 fewer games played than Bowers.
Spin it any way to Sunday, but come next season, all the "stats" won't matter when comparing because Brock's numbers and big play ability will again be gawdy as frick.
Posted on 6/20/23 at 12:31 pm to meansonny
quote:
Bowers had 10 TDs.
7 receiving. 3 rushing.
His career has 20 receiving and 4 rushing.
He did score from the running back position...he also scored many of those receiving TDs from a flexed position (more like a WR). This goes to my point...Just because Todd Monken is a better OC than Randy Sanders, doesn't mean that Bowers is a better TE than Witten.
Bowers is the size of the bigger WRs that UT had when Witten played (i.e. *Kelly Washington). The game is different, and these Flex positions aren't the same as the TE position of 20+ years ago. Apples to Pears (not quite Apples to Oranges...but not Apples to Apples, either).
*Bowers is 6'4 - 230
Washington was 6'4 - 225
Posted on 6/20/23 at 12:49 pm to madmaxvol
quote:
Just because Todd Monken is a better OC than Randy Sanders, doesn't mean that Bowers is a better TE than Witten.
enlighten us then, what makes one player better than another?
I'd love to know any measurable way you can pretend that witten was a better college TE than bowers. Being taller and heavier is irrelevant.
Posted on 6/20/23 at 12:51 pm to madmaxvol
I don't think you've watched Bowers.
I have seen him line up as a single back. But I don't think any of his rushing TDs were as a tailback (maybe 1?).
He is running jet sweeps and truck sweeps from the sniffer position.
Monken is a genius. Not only did he get guys open, but the players executed at an extremely high level. I don't doubt Bobos ability to get guys open. I just hope we can maintain high efficiency on red zone and 3rd downs. Bowers gives us a cheat code, though.
And with the improved receiving room, there is a high likelihood that we stretch the field better and improve Bowers unbelievable YAC even more.
I have seen him line up as a single back. But I don't think any of his rushing TDs were as a tailback (maybe 1?).
He is running jet sweeps and truck sweeps from the sniffer position.
Monken is a genius. Not only did he get guys open, but the players executed at an extremely high level. I don't doubt Bobos ability to get guys open. I just hope we can maintain high efficiency on red zone and 3rd downs. Bowers gives us a cheat code, though.
And with the improved receiving room, there is a high likelihood that we stretch the field better and improve Bowers unbelievable YAC even more.
Posted on 6/20/23 at 1:00 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
enlighten us then, what makes one player better than another?
I believe that Witten is a better traditional TE, because of both size and alignment. If you are flexing away from the line...you are now a slot receiver, and you aren't going to be blocking a DE/DT (you may block down on an OLB).
Here he is making a great play...as the outside receiver in a Trips set (twice).
Bowers TD from trips
Here Witten is Scoring a TD vs Michigan from a 3 point stance.
Witten vs Michigan
I think that Bowers is an amazing player...but I don't think that he would be a dominant TE with a hand on the ground, whereas I think Witten could have been excellent had he been used like Bowers.
Posted on 6/20/23 at 1:02 pm to madmaxvol
quote:
but I don't think that he would be a dominant TE with a hand on the ground, whereas I think Witten could have been excellent had he been used like Bowers.
That's just pretty dumb.
Posted on 6/20/23 at 1:14 pm to madmaxvol
quote:
I think that Bowers is an amazing player...but I don't think that he would be a dominant TE with a hand on the ground, whereas I think Witten could have been excellent had he been used like Bowers.
The game is changing. Teams want guys who can do both because it provides mismatches and the defense can't just easily fit personnel to stop you.
The key to it though is having a guy who can do both. And he can do both. Witten may be better with his hand in the ground, but he was never capable of doing what Brock can lining up in the slot or taking a handoff. Bowers is closer to Witten in-line than Witten is to Bowers off-line.
Posted on 6/20/23 at 1:22 pm to madmaxvol
quote:
I believe that Witten is a better traditional TE, because of both size and alignment.
buddy...being a few inches taller doens't make one player better than another
If your starting argument out of hte gate on one player being BETTER than another is "size" then you've already lost quote:
If you are flexing away from the line...you are now a slot receiver,
Bowers is a TE, regardless of where he linse up on the field. Often times taht is in traditional formation just beside the tackle. Sometimes it's in the slot. Sometimes it's in the backfield. It doesn't change his position though.
quote:
I think that Bowers is an amazing player...but I don't think that he would be a dominant TE with a hand on the ground, whereas I think Witten could have been excellent had he been used like Bowers.
cool, lots of conjecture and guesswork there though. We could look at actual, real life facts and what each palyer has done too which is generally used as a good measuring stick to compare players. FTR, I don't think witten should necessarliy be "punished" so to speak because of the era he played in. It's not his fault that the game was what it was in 2003 which is very different than now. But in the discussion of which player was "better", I mean all we have to go on is what both players did on the field in real time against their peers. And there isn't any comparison whatsoever that would give witten the edge.
This post was edited on 6/20/23 at 1:24 pm
Posted on 6/20/23 at 1:37 pm to GAT BoilerPickle Doc
quote:
1. Kellen Winslow 2. Ozzie Newsome 3. Jason Witten
I don't know how they did in college, but that is an incredible TE top 3.
Posted on 6/20/23 at 1:38 pm to koreandawg
I don't know who it is, but make sure they can block and are not just another WR lining up at TE and defended by linebackers.
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