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re: ESPN: Did the SEC force them to turn-around their anti-Jesus stance?
Posted on 12/18/13 at 7:59 am to mrnegative
Posted on 12/18/13 at 7:59 am to mrnegative
quote:
I'm Jewish and would find a pro Jesus commercial upsetting. Why can't they just say g-d and make it no denominational?
Really? Why is this? Honest- I don't feel the least bit slighted when I hear someone say "Happy Hanukkah".
I guess I'm just not easily offended.
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Posted on 12/18/13 at 8:06 am to mrnegative
quote:
I'm Jewish and would find a pro Jesus commercial upsetting. Why can't they just say g-d and make it no denominational?
Because Jesus-murdering heathens like you need to be taught the gospel via commercial advertisements begging for donations on a cable sports news channel.
Posted on 12/18/13 at 9:39 am to scrooster
Anti-Jesus?
I'm anti-Jesus.
I'm anti-Jesus.
Posted on 12/18/13 at 10:09 am to AlwysATgr
quote:
FTR, Jesus did not diminish the Old Testament prophets. I'll be glad to continue the discussion (unless the Admin goes all ESPN on me) but I have no idea who the three or the bearded guy are that you're referring to.
As for the OP, when something comes to the ESPN desk with Jesus' name on it, why are the compelled to cover it up?
I didn't say Jesus diminish's the Old Testament prophets. I said that Christianity does... The Old Testament and it's prophets are the basis of the Jewish religion. The God in those books is all powerful, wrathful and a classic micro manager. He had laws written in stone and delivered to the people. Other laws are delivered that decree what you can and can't do.
Jesus comes along and says, never mind about that stuff... just follow what I say. It doesn't diminish the words of those who came before to say you can ignore what they said was the word of God? And thus the New Testament with it's touchy-feely, father God that wants you to govern your own actions with a later threat of judgement to come at the end. The miracles are less movie magic and more street magic.
Islam takes the son of God from the New Testament and makes him a prophet of God instead. He was a harbinger to Muhammad, their "true" mouthpiece of God. God has decided that he wants a happy medium of wrath and hands off approach, so he instills more laws and ups the ante for reward/punishment upon death.
Those three I was referring to were the three faces of the same bearded guy. The god of the three religions doesn't change, the message he is said to have given his people does (and the ones doing the delivering). Dismissing Allah or Yahweh as false gods is dismissing the Christian God as well. It's the same god.
Posted on 12/18/13 at 1:51 pm to Loathor
quote:
I didn't say Jesus diminish's the Old Testament prophets. I said that Christianity does...
Here's the quote from your earlier post (bold mine):
quote:
It's all BS... Islam diminishes the importance of Jesus in favor of their anointed holy mouthpiece of Allah in the same way that Judaic prophets and teachings are shoved to the rear when Jesus comes a preaching about God. In the end all three are praying to the same bearded guy and then throwing stones at their fellow worshipers. It's this kind of nonsense that makes me shake my head.
Likewise, you've posted:
quote:
Jesus comes along and says, never mind about that stuff...
I'm confused. Is it the historical individual Jesus whom you claim diminishes the OT prophets OR "Christianity" (usually understood as the history of those who claim to be Jesus' followers)?
quote:
Jesus comes along and says, never mind about that stuff... just follow what I say. It doesn't diminish the words of those who came before to say you can ignore what they said was the word of God? And thus the New Testament with it's touchy-feely, father God that wants you to govern your own actions with a later threat of judgement to come at the end. The miracles are less movie magic and more street magic.
Where do you get this stuff? The Jesus revealed in the NT Gospels affirms, sanctions, and endorses every act of God in the OT and every writ of OT Scripture. He doesn't diminish or abolish them; rather, He fulfills them.
quote:
Dismissing Allah or Yahweh as false gods is dismissing the Christian God as well. It's the same god.
Allah is the Arabic word for "god" (akin to "god" in English, Elohim in Hebrew, and Theos in Greek). Because of its close association with Islam it is usually understood by us in the west as the god of the Quran, not the God of OT/NT. Yahweh is from the Biblical Hebrew tetragrammaton. It was God's covenant name and is most certainly not the god of the Quran.
Jesus in the NT, is revealed as the eternal Son of God. He was/is divine (I don't think Islam believes this). He was crucified (something Islam denies but is the very cornerstone of Biblical Christian theology).
All worldviews are not the same. And in every culture and nation and place (and ESPN broadcast), some worldview will be given ascendancy. Once any worldview claims truth (which Biblical Christianity does), the concept of a worldview neutral society becomes mythical.
Posted on 12/18/13 at 3:21 pm to Loathor
I will never understand why ESPN, the so-called leader in sports broadcasting, chose to inject themselves into something like this through their actions.
I wonder who they thought they were endearing themselves to ... or did they simply not care? Or did ABC/Disney simply tell them to do it and they dgaf?
It just doesn't make sense. It's almost like they were testing the waters for something worse in the future.
So the question is, when will ESPN start cutting off players in post game interviews who say, "first of all I'd like to give praise to Jesus and God Almighty for blessing me with this talent?"
I wonder who they thought they were endearing themselves to ... or did they simply not care? Or did ABC/Disney simply tell them to do it and they dgaf?
It just doesn't make sense. It's almost like they were testing the waters for something worse in the future.
So the question is, when will ESPN start cutting off players in post game interviews who say, "first of all I'd like to give praise to Jesus and God Almighty for blessing me with this talent?"
Posted on 12/18/13 at 3:28 pm to scrooster
I would imagine the chorus of 'whats the big deal" responses in this thread would sound drastically different had the commercial been Muslim and talked about Muhammad instead of Jesus.
Its all about perspective. Im Catholic but understand WHY broadcasters try and remain as neutral as they possibly can.
Its all about perspective. Im Catholic but understand WHY broadcasters try and remain as neutral as they possibly can.
Posted on 12/18/13 at 3:35 pm to kilo
quote:
I would imagine the chorus of 'whats the big deal" responses in this thread would sound drastically different had the commercial been Muslim and talked about Muhammad instead of Jesus.
Its all about perspective. Im Catholic but understand WHY broadcasters try and remain as neutral as they possibly can.
When we start seeing peaceful Muslim-funded hospital commercials asking everyone to rejoice in the birth of Muhammad here in the United States ... well, we'll worry about that when it happens. I wouldn't hold my breath.
Right now they are too busy funding mosques where they secretly preach domination and the overthrow of our culture/country.
Or, might you show some evidence of an Islamic funded hospital in the US?
On the flip side you have thousands of Christian funded hospitals, and Jewish funded hospitals for that matter. You also see public service announcements for Jewish charities on ESPN. Why is that?
I just googled "islam funded U.S. hospital" and all I got was hospitals funded by the U.S. and Christians in Islamic countries. So your example is for shite.
This post was edited on 12/18/13 at 3:37 pm
Posted on 12/18/13 at 3:37 pm to scrooster
quote:
When we start seeing peaceful Muslim-funded hospital commercials asking everyone to rejoice in the birth of Muhammad here in the United States ... well, we're worry about that when it happens. I wouldn't hold my breath.
Right now they are too busy funding mosques where they secretly preach domination and the overthrow of our culture/country.
Or, might you show some evidence of an Islamic funded hospital in the US?
Thanks for proving my point Scrooster old boy. You never fail to deliver.
Posted on 12/18/13 at 3:41 pm to mrnegative
I don't have a problem with them airing or not airing the commercial but I don't understand
quote:Why? The focus of the ad is about delivering messages to sick children at the Cardinal Glennon medical center.
I'm Jewish and would find a pro Jesus commercial upsetting. Why can't they just say g-d and make it no denominational?
Posted on 12/18/13 at 3:46 pm to cornhat
quote:
Cardinal Glennon medical center.
Not to shamelessly plug this great institution but Cardinal Glennon is a great light shinning down in a cruel world. The tireless work they do to heal and care for sick children in St Louis, the region, nationally and internationally should be applauded.
Regardless of religious affiliation this institution does great things for children and if you cant get behind that then jump off a bridge and die.
Posted on 12/18/13 at 4:48 pm to AlwysATgr
quote:
I'm confused. Is it the historical individual Jesus whom you claim diminishes the OT prophets OR "Christianity" (usually understood as the history of those who claim to be Jesus' followers)?
Sorry my hyperbole was lost on you.
quote:
Where do you get this stuff? The Jesus revealed in the NT Gospels affirms, sanctions, and endorses every act of God in the OT and every writ of OT Scripture. He doesn't diminish or abolish them; rather, He fulfills them.
So all the thou shalt nots in the Old Testement that are abused and ignored today with impunity were held up by Jesus? The fact that "an eye for an eye" becomes "turn the other cheek" even though they are antithetical?
quote:
Allah is the Arabic word for "god" (akin to "god" in English, Elohim in Hebrew, and Theos in Greek). Because of its close association with Islam it is usually understood by us in the west as the god of the Quran, not the God of OT/NT. Yahweh is from the Biblical Hebrew tetragrammaton. It was God's covenant name and is most certainly not the god of the Quran.
Jesus in the NT, is revealed as the eternal Son of God. He was/is divine (I don't think Islam believes this). He was crucified (something Islam denies but is the very cornerstone of Biblical Christian theology).
All worldviews are not the same. And in every culture and nation and place (and ESPN broadcast), some worldview will be given ascendancy. Once any worldview claims truth (which Biblical Christianity does), the concept of a worldview neutral society becomes mythical.
Um, so you claim truth and that means everyone else who claimed truth before is just... what? Wrong? Your truth is not my truth and vice versa. Especially when you're talking about something there is no verifiable way to quantify. Pointing to the Bible and claiming that as proof is just as silly as holding up a Qur'an and doing the same. Belief in a higher power is a personal journey. Claiming that any one pathway is superior to the other defeats the purpose. Why does it matter how you get to your destination as long as you get there? Whether that destination is in Arabic, Hebrew, English or whatever.
Posted on 12/18/13 at 4:55 pm to DLH
quote:
This country was not founded on christian principles. The founding fathers were mostly agnostic. This country was founded on the principle that people could worship (or not) as they wish. The whole "in god we trust" was added to currency in 1957 not 1777.
Exactly, saying anything else drives me fricking nuts. This country is not a theocracy.
Posted on 12/18/13 at 5:58 pm to Loathor
quote:
Sorry my hyperbole was lost on you.
Shhhhuuush . . . smell that?
quote:
So all the thou shalt nots in the Old Testement that are abused and ignored today with impunity were held up by Jesus? The fact that "an eye for an eye" becomes "turn the other cheek" even though they are antithetical?
Nope - just need to maintain a distinction between a covenantal theocracy (OT Israel), individual Christianity (NT believers), and national society, e.g., USA.
quote:
Um, so you claim truth and that means everyone else who claimed truth before is just... what? Wrong? Your truth is not my truth and vice versa. Especially when you're talking about something there is no verifiable way to quantify. Pointing to the Bible and claiming that as proof is just as silly as holding up a Qur'an and doing the same. Belief in a higher power is a personal journey. Claiming that any one pathway is superior to the other defeats the purpose. Why does it matter how you get to your destination as long as you get there? Whether that destination is in Arabic, Hebrew, English or whatever.
My point is that the worldviews of Biblical Christianity and Islam are fundamentally and irreconciably different. Both stake their claims to truth. I don't claim that either is "verifiable." But both claim to be truth and once so, there is no longer a place for worldview neutrality.
What is silly is to hold a Bible in one hand and a Quran in the other and claim both as truth. They may both be wrong or one could be correct and the other wrong, but they both can't be correct. It is far more than a matter of "different paths to the same place."
The Bible proclaims Jesus not just as a prophet or even the son of God but as God the Son who died for the sins of the world. This is foreign to and rejecte by Islam. The Bible teaches that even Mohammed will one day bow his knee and confess Jesus as Lord! Is Islam ok with that?
Posted on 12/18/13 at 8:35 pm to kilo
quote:
Thanks for proving my point Scrooster old boy. You never fail to deliver.
Thank you, and you are welcome.
So, where are the links to the Islamic funded charities? What about a simple youtube.com video promoting a charity?
I'll type it again.
When we see such a commercial, or a video, promoting seasonal peace by and paid for by Muslims wishing everyone peace and prosperity and a good life ... then we can judge said video. Until then, none exists and certainly none have been offered-up for broadcast on ESPN. Therefore, yours is a hypothetical and not based in reality. Subsequently your claim that we would have a different view were a Muslim oriented commercial to be offered-up ... it to is pie in the sky. It hasn't happened so you have no clue how we all might react. You're just bullshitting as usual.
What happens when you assume something kilo?
arse (outta) u (and) me.
I'm not falling for your assumptions so therefore you are making an arse out of yourself with your implied hypothetical assumption.
Posted on 12/18/13 at 9:04 pm to AlwysATgr
quote:
My point is that the worldviews of Biblical Christianity and Islam are fundamentally and irreconciably different. Both stake their claims to truth. I don't claim that either is "verifiable." But both claim to be truth and once so, there is no longer a place for worldview neutrality.
What is silly is to hold a Bible in one hand and a Quran in the other and claim both as truth. They may both be wrong or one could be correct and the other wrong, but they both can't be correct. It is far more than a matter of "different paths to the same place."
The Bible proclaims Jesus not just as a prophet or even the son of God but as God the Son who died for the sins of the world. This is foreign to and rejecte by Islam. The Bible teaches that even Mohammed will one day bow his knee and confess Jesus as Lord! Is Islam ok with that?
My point is that they are not fundamentally nor irreconcilably different. Both are seeking the same goal. Live your life as best you can. Treat your fellow man with compassion and love. Be devout in your beliefs to attain a similar goal, a peaceful afterlife. Does the message really matter so much if the end result is the same?
Instead of chastising how someone prays or denouncing their beliefs as inferior, you could just celebrate a common belief in a higher power and treat them with the courtesy you would want to receive yourself. But often times it boils down to a pissing contest about who's god is the bestest. That's why I, personally, find religion a farce. But it's a farce that I can live with as long as it's not being forced down my throat at every turn.
Posted on 12/18/13 at 9:16 pm to Loathor
I do not believe in negativity towards any religion. I am a Christian and believe whole heartedly in Jesus!!!!
Merry Christmas and Happy Hannakuh! A sports board should never discuss religion or politics.
Merry Christmas and Happy Hannakuh! A sports board should never discuss religion or politics.
Posted on 12/18/13 at 9:45 pm to bamakat
quote:
I do not believe in negativity towards any religion. I am a Christian and believe whole heartedly in Jesus!!!!
Merry Christmas and Happy Hannakuh! A sports board should never discuss religion or politics.
Unless the leader is sports broadcasting makes religion an issue and the most powerful college football conference in all the land worries that the actions of said leader is sports broadcasting might be detrimental to the launch of its network next August.
Agreed?
Posted on 12/18/13 at 11:36 pm to Loathor
quote:
My point is that they are not fundamentally nor irreconcilably different. Both are seeking the same goal. Live your life as best you can. Treat your fellow man with compassion and love. Be devout in your beliefs to attain a similar goal, a peaceful afterlife. Does the message really matter so much if the end result is the same?
Loathor - we'll simply have to agree to disagree since I cannot accept your presuppositions. In my understanding of the Bible (shared by Evangelicals) Jesus is not just one way to God among many, or a good way or a better way, He is THE ONLY WAY. He does not want a place among other "ways". He demands preeminence.
I believe Jesus is the Son of God and God the Son who died to propitiate the sins of man before a perfectly holy, loving, and just God and who was raised from the dead. I trust that Jesus is my Savior and surrender the eternal destiny of my soul to Him.
If you'll accept it, have a Merry Christmas and God bless.
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