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re: Comparing conferences: A different look
Posted on 8/4/15 at 10:02 am to JesusQuintana
Posted on 8/4/15 at 10:02 am to JesusQuintana
I like this list overall but here are a few viewpoints..
Something doesn't sit right with me having Penn State in Tier 1 for some reason. Yes, James Franklin is a good (some would say great coach) but I don't think PSU is the same program it was during the height. But I understand the point being that they just need the right coach to contend. Got it. They can stay. (I would put 'teetering' by them
)
Tennessee deserves to be up there for the same reason I presume Penn State is up there. They just need the right coach. Butch is recruiting extremely well and they have amazing facilities so if Jones can't deliver a title (or even get to the playoffs) in the next few years then maybe UTK should slip.. but for now, I agree with where they are.
I'll try to be unbiased (I'm also a UCLA fan) but I think UCLA could rise to tier 1. Jim Mora is proving that the right coach at UCLA can make them a contender. The Bruins are investing in facilities and having great success recruiting. But for now, I agree with where they are.. I would just put "rising" next to them. If Oregon can be elite, then eventually so can UCLA.
Something doesn't sit right with me having Penn State in Tier 1 for some reason. Yes, James Franklin is a good (some would say great coach) but I don't think PSU is the same program it was during the height. But I understand the point being that they just need the right coach to contend. Got it. They can stay. (I would put 'teetering' by them
) Tennessee deserves to be up there for the same reason I presume Penn State is up there. They just need the right coach. Butch is recruiting extremely well and they have amazing facilities so if Jones can't deliver a title (or even get to the playoffs) in the next few years then maybe UTK should slip.. but for now, I agree with where they are.
I'll try to be unbiased (I'm also a UCLA fan) but I think UCLA could rise to tier 1. Jim Mora is proving that the right coach at UCLA can make them a contender. The Bruins are investing in facilities and having great success recruiting. But for now, I agree with where they are.. I would just put "rising" next to them. If Oregon can be elite, then eventually so can UCLA.
This post was edited on 8/4/15 at 10:03 am
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Posted on 8/4/15 at 10:46 am to smuphy72
quote:
Clemson is a program I can't see winning a national championship. Solid program, not elite though.
Clemson won a national championship in football, in 81.
Oops.
Posted on 8/4/15 at 10:55 am to JesusQuintana
Not a bad list at all, didn't you have this one up a while back?
While I agree Texas A&M is a second tier school, as is Arkansas I will admit, people have been trying to nudge them into tier one contender status for a good long while and they haven't quite made it there yet and might very well never make it to the promised land.
Texas does produce a butt load of football talent yes, but the Aggies are fighting with every other in state school for that talent along with poachers from the neighboring states.
I'm not saying the Aggies suck or anything, I think they will continue to do just fine in the SEC, but I don't think they step into perennial powerhouse status any time soon if ever.
While I agree Texas A&M is a second tier school, as is Arkansas I will admit, people have been trying to nudge them into tier one contender status for a good long while and they haven't quite made it there yet and might very well never make it to the promised land.
Texas does produce a butt load of football talent yes, but the Aggies are fighting with every other in state school for that talent along with poachers from the neighboring states.
I'm not saying the Aggies suck or anything, I think they will continue to do just fine in the SEC, but I don't think they step into perennial powerhouse status any time soon if ever.
Posted on 8/4/15 at 10:58 am to JesusQuintana
quote:
aTm (could make an argument for rung above)
Based on what?
Posted on 8/4/15 at 11:05 am to JesusQuintana
quote:
Pushovers- pretty much get counted as an auto win by any teams in the above category. Accomplishment just to make any bowl game, usually have losing seasons. ACC Wake BC Cuse
BC is definitely not a pushover. Syracuse is typically at least average. Wake was a solid program for 5 years, only recently have they been awful.
quote:
National Title Contenders: Self explanatory. Teams that in any given year can win it all with the right coach in place
quote:
SEC Alabama Auburn LSU Tennessee Florida Georgia
Tenn is a huge stretch at this point. Not sure how you can Oregon is a stretch but have Tenn has national title contender.
Posted on 8/4/15 at 11:54 am to Jamie Lannister
Because Tennessee has proved that you can win multiple national titles with several different coaches. Hence the, "with the right coach in place" phrasing.
This post was edited on 8/4/15 at 11:56 am
Posted on 8/4/15 at 12:42 pm to TRUERockyTop
quote:
Because Tennessee has proved that you can win multiple national titles with several different coaches. Hence the, "with the right coach in place" phrasing.
they proved that a long time ago, when there were less programs that were trying to be competitive in football and all these new programs.
talent level is much more diluted now then it was in Tenn's heyday.
you've had 4 different coaches the past 10-12 years and the results have been about the same.
This post was edited on 8/4/15 at 12:44 pm
Posted on 8/4/15 at 1:27 pm to Jamie Lannister
A string of disastrous hires by an equally incompetent AD (who was fired for making said hires) doesn't derail the potential for Tennessee to achieve another NC. Parity in recruiting certainly doesn't either.
Posted on 8/4/15 at 1:28 pm to Arksulli
I agree, based on history and the in-state bias. No reason to believe A&M will reach the next level until we see something some drastic changes or wild success.
From the beginning up until the 1930's and 40's TCU and A&M were the best programs in the State. A&M did pretty well with Bear Bryant, but the continual knock on A&M from the 60's on was the compulsory military-style education (corps), no co-eds, and lack of university status. Also, enter Darrel Royal in 1957, which is, coincedentally (or not) the same year Bear went home to the mama and fricking gumps. 30 years of grossly overshadowed mediocrety ensued.
A&M got better in the 80's and 90's, after having become a university, ditching the compulsory military education, allowing women, and getting a better shot at talent with scholarship limits. For some reason (we all know), however, A&M is still viewed by most in the prizm of 1957-1975. (The overwhelmingly bias media in Texas continues to perpetuate that view). Even though A&M is not even close to the same institution. But frickers gonna fricker cuz they are stupid and have an agenda. Moving to the SEC has help stymie the obvious slant. Local meadia can't exclusively control the narrative and it pisses them off.
With the ever-constant and unchanging media slant in Texas, to get to the next level, we must impress the hell out of the national media on a yearly basis to the point where the local media is ignored. We can't just win an NC and boom, top program. We need Bama-like Dynasty NCs to overcome the burnt orange slant. Maybe a decade of longhorn marginalization will change the slat, but if we wander in mediocrity for another decade and the fricking longhorns make some extreme institutional changes, we have no chance. Our preception burden is greater than any other institution in the SEC because of the local pooh-flinging media idiots. The SEC has offered an opportunity to break through, but it will take multiple levels of hardware.
Sadly, I am more hopeful than optimistic.
From the beginning up until the 1930's and 40's TCU and A&M were the best programs in the State. A&M did pretty well with Bear Bryant, but the continual knock on A&M from the 60's on was the compulsory military-style education (corps), no co-eds, and lack of university status. Also, enter Darrel Royal in 1957, which is, coincedentally (or not) the same year Bear went home to the mama and fricking gumps. 30 years of grossly overshadowed mediocrety ensued.
A&M got better in the 80's and 90's, after having become a university, ditching the compulsory military education, allowing women, and getting a better shot at talent with scholarship limits. For some reason (we all know), however, A&M is still viewed by most in the prizm of 1957-1975. (The overwhelmingly bias media in Texas continues to perpetuate that view). Even though A&M is not even close to the same institution. But frickers gonna fricker cuz they are stupid and have an agenda. Moving to the SEC has help stymie the obvious slant. Local meadia can't exclusively control the narrative and it pisses them off.
With the ever-constant and unchanging media slant in Texas, to get to the next level, we must impress the hell out of the national media on a yearly basis to the point where the local media is ignored. We can't just win an NC and boom, top program. We need Bama-like Dynasty NCs to overcome the burnt orange slant. Maybe a decade of longhorn marginalization will change the slat, but if we wander in mediocrity for another decade and the fricking longhorns make some extreme institutional changes, we have no chance. Our preception burden is greater than any other institution in the SEC because of the local pooh-flinging media idiots. The SEC has offered an opportunity to break through, but it will take multiple levels of hardware.
Sadly, I am more hopeful than optimistic.
Posted on 8/4/15 at 5:02 pm to KaiserSoze99
quote:
Sadly, I am more hopeful than optimistic.
Let us be honest here... the Aggies are where Arkansas is.
We both need to mine the state of Texas. We both grind our teeth over the fact that a 10 win season looks like a 6 win season for that school in Austin.
That having been said... Arkansas and Texas A&M try harder. No, I am not moving the Aggies into the perennial contenders range... I am not moving Arkansas there either.
What I am saying is that Arkansas and Texas A&M aren't lazy. We know we have to win and win big. Both schools recruit like mad.
We are not the fortunate sons. What we get, the bowls, the recruits, the wins, we have to earn.
If either school wins a Natty they earned it. We have to work for it. Not just for a year, but two or three years in a row.
Posted on 8/4/15 at 7:28 pm to KCM0Tiger
quote:
I'm sure you're mostly accurate, but I stopped reading when you put Tennessee in the category of teams that can win it all any given year. Their time is past...for example, if you put Tennessee in that category, why didn't you include Nebraska?
There's no doubt both are on life support as top rung programs.
Posted on 8/4/15 at 7:38 pm to Jamie Lannister
quote:
Jamie Lannister
Here's the difference between the SEC and the ACC:
We know how to spell focus.
(no, this was not photoshopped)
Posted on 8/4/15 at 8:51 pm to M1zz0u
Mizzou fans comparing their program to Tennessee is ridiculous.
UT is a historic power with a shite load of history.
Missouri is a program that has gotten its shite pushed in the SEC Championship and used to have Chase Daniel.
No comparison.
UT for sure is top rung, they just need the right coach.
UT is a historic power with a shite load of history.
Missouri is a program that has gotten its shite pushed in the SEC Championship and used to have Chase Daniel.
No comparison.
UT for sure is top rung, they just need the right coach.
Posted on 8/4/15 at 9:23 pm to JesusQuintana
There's only 4 programs that can win it with a good coach only. There are several others that can rent space for a few years when multiple things converge in their favor.
Posted on 8/4/15 at 9:54 pm to LSUANDY25
Mizzou, A&M, South Carolina, and Arkansas are not national championship caliber teams.
If they were, we would have seen them either win or lose in a national title game, which neither has happened in our lifetime. I'm not sold on the Arkansas, Mizzou, A&M bandwagon because these teams fail to bring home the trophy from a historical perspective.
If they were, we would have seen them either win or lose in a national title game, which neither has happened in our lifetime. I'm not sold on the Arkansas, Mizzou, A&M bandwagon because these teams fail to bring home the trophy from a historical perspective.
Posted on 8/4/15 at 9:56 pm to JesusQuintana
quote:
Miami isn't at that level anymore imo. Clemson?nah
So Miami and Clemson are tier two, but Tennessee is tier one?
Posted on 8/4/15 at 10:00 pm to OU_Fan
quote:
Mizzou, A&M, South Carolina, and Arkansas are not national championship caliber
Which would probably be the reason I didn't say they were. What ya think?
Posted on 8/5/15 at 12:19 am to OU_Fan
quote:
Mizzou, A&M, South Carolina, and Arkansas are not national championship caliber teams.
It took the perfect storm and the ultimate choke job by A&M, Kansas State, and Florida State for Oklahoma to win a title in the 2000 season.
Here's Oklahoma's scoring average in BCS title games:
15 points per game
That INCLUDES their championship win.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 1:01 am to CGSC Lobotomy
In 2000, OU defeated #1 Nebraska, #2 Kansas State, #8 Texas, Kansas State again in the Big 12 champ game, and of course the infamous Torrance Marshall interception against A&M returned for a touchdown to pretty much win the game. Not to mention, someone had to knock out Chris Weinke and the Noles because no one else could.
The key point here is I remember sitting on the couch quite well and witnessing my team win a national championship. I remember the OU National Championship Nike T-Shirt. Since then, I've witnessed OU bring home 2 Heisman trophy winners, 8 conference championships, and win bowl games.
A&M fans can't say they same, you guys have never witnessed your team achieve greatness. Well maybe your grandpa did back in the 1930s.
The key point here is I remember sitting on the couch quite well and witnessing my team win a national championship. I remember the OU National Championship Nike T-Shirt. Since then, I've witnessed OU bring home 2 Heisman trophy winners, 8 conference championships, and win bowl games.
A&M fans can't say they same, you guys have never witnessed your team achieve greatness. Well maybe your grandpa did back in the 1930s.
This post was edited on 8/5/15 at 1:04 am
Posted on 8/5/15 at 1:24 am to OU_Fan
quote:
because these teams fail to bring home the trophy from a historical perspective.
This is what I love about some fan bases. They get spoiled and think things could never change.
Just because OU won a NC 15 years ago, you thought that OU would still be the who's who and still command national attention.
Did you know that Princeton University has the most NCs of any other program in the NCAA? What happened to them? What happened to Army and Navy? Georgia Tech? Minnesota? Yale?
As you probably know, it's called a paradigm shift. What worked before does not work now, and likely will never work again. The dynamics of college football have forever changed, and not in a good way for the Okies. You needed your overload to keep a thumb on Daddy A&M for you to remain relevant. They did it for many, many decades until A&M just got too big. It had to happen some day. The fricking longhorns couldn't be the 800 lb gorilla forever.
OU, like Princeton, Yale, Minnesota, Navy, etc, is the guy who was the all-district quarter back in your high school who owned the place, had all the girls, drove the nice car, had all the great parties. Dude thought things would NEVER change. He would always rule, right?
15 years later, he's a bald, fat douche still wearing his letterman jacket, working at Walmart. OU, just like baldy, is a has-been program that is squirming and fighting to get bevo's nutless dong out of its mouth so it can try to salvage mid-major level exposure. OU is a Texas-dependent program that has been completely marginalized with no upside, stuck in a shitty conference with no way to leave and nothing to offer.
The program suffering the most from Bowtie Loftin's 100 year screw-job is OU. We destroyed sooner football, and it makes me smile. You deserve it for attaching your mouths to bevy's cock.
Get another past-time, cuz A&M will win 10-20 NCs before OU ever wins another.
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