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Posted on 2/25/11 at 11:12 am to Tds & Beer
quote:
Tds & Beer
quote:You realize you are responding to a quote from an OM fan, right?
WTF are you talking about?
Auburn fans, why do you just twist this around and brush it off like it means absolutely nothing?
quote:
You act like there is absolutely no way any of it is true and no way you did anything wrong. shite, just be honest.
Also, why don't you avoid the over generalizations and address an AU fan specifically instead of being a bitch about it and making a straw man's argument. I haven't acted like that and haven't noticed that in this thread. The point of this thread was attacking the preposterous notion that the NCAA heard tapes that proved Cam knew of the p4p talks with MSU and ignored the tapes and reinstated Cam based on his lack o fknowledge.
Posted on 2/25/11 at 11:16 am to Monticello
For the sake of argument let's assume Cam knew what his father was doing at MSU. Let's also assume that AU offered him nothing as they have claimed and the NCAA has said there is no evidence showing that they did.
If you are the NCAA how do you punish AU for violations that occurred at another school? If you rule him ineligible at AU, and there for all the games he played in have to be vacated because he is ineligible, you are punishing a school that you the NCAA can find no evidence of wrong doing.
I think that's probably what the NCAA was faced with at the time of their decision. A ruling of ineligible would do far greater damage to AU because of championship implications and the millions of dollars at stake.
They probably did hear Cecil say Cam was in the room, but since Cam's voice isn't on the tape they couldn't verify he was actually there sitting beside Cecil involved in the discussion. A good layer would probably have argued that he could have been in the room, but how long was he there and how involved was he in the discussion.
In the end I think it was a decision of convenience for all parties involved. The NCAA didn't have to burn a program down because of violations at another school. AU didn't have to vacate wins and ruin a championship season. MSU got to ban a booster, but didn't get hammered because they didn't pay anyone, and Cam went elsewhere. Cam got to finish the year, win the Heisman and a championship.
If you are the NCAA how do you punish AU for violations that occurred at another school? If you rule him ineligible at AU, and there for all the games he played in have to be vacated because he is ineligible, you are punishing a school that you the NCAA can find no evidence of wrong doing.
I think that's probably what the NCAA was faced with at the time of their decision. A ruling of ineligible would do far greater damage to AU because of championship implications and the millions of dollars at stake.
They probably did hear Cecil say Cam was in the room, but since Cam's voice isn't on the tape they couldn't verify he was actually there sitting beside Cecil involved in the discussion. A good layer would probably have argued that he could have been in the room, but how long was he there and how involved was he in the discussion.
In the end I think it was a decision of convenience for all parties involved. The NCAA didn't have to burn a program down because of violations at another school. AU didn't have to vacate wins and ruin a championship season. MSU got to ban a booster, but didn't get hammered because they didn't pay anyone, and Cam went elsewhere. Cam got to finish the year, win the Heisman and a championship.
Posted on 2/25/11 at 11:17 am to joeyb147
quote:
What?
I'm pretty sure everyone on here was convinced that since the FBI was involved, EVERYTHING was going to come to light.... but now you say they kept these tapes on ice EVEN AFTER the FBI was interrogating them?
Damn... the stories on here change monthly...
The FBI may have had the tapes all along (if they exist) - they damn sure won't divulge any info on one of their investigations.
Posted on 2/25/11 at 11:17 am to The ChizMan Cometh
quote:I think the NCAA is ok with that. It sucks and may not be the most equitable outcome for AU, but they can't let it go unpunished and this is really their only option.
If you are the NCAA how do you punish AU for violations that occurred at another school? If you rule him ineligible at AU, and there for all the games he played in have to be vacated because he is ineligible, you are punishing a school that you the NCAA can find no evidence of wrong doing.
Posted on 2/25/11 at 11:21 am to WDE24
quote:
Even if true, does that mean that Bond and Bell intentionally withheld the nature of the contents of the tapes from the NCAA?
I would say it is very possible that Bond did not let the NCAA hear all of the tapes. That is what this radio host is saying. The NCAA has no ability to force them to play the tapes.
Posted on 2/25/11 at 11:22 am to WDE24
quote:
Even if true, does that mean that Bond and Bell intentionally withheld the nature of the contents of the tapes from the NCAA?
Even if they did, they are not beholden to the NCAA to divulge the info on the tapes.
Posted on 2/25/11 at 11:23 am to Monticello
Ok let's assume the tapes are 100 percent legit. They do not prove Auburn paid money, so the records stand. They would not show that Auburn knew that MSU was dirty, so again the records stand. The NCAA ruled Cam eligible, you only vacate games if you knowingly play an ineligible player, so again the records stand. Until someone has a tape showing Auburn knew, then all records will stand. Prove Auburn paid and then I will worry.
Posted on 2/25/11 at 11:23 am to CoonassBulldog
This doesn't make sense to me because Tennessee was never really after Cam all that strong (never visited us, wasn't ever really on his list, didn't have the offense). We were after Scroggins, Sims, Brunetti, Heaps, Hendrix, Rettig, Montana, etc.. but never really Cam. Did we offer all them money as well?
This post was edited on 2/25/11 at 11:25 am
Posted on 2/25/11 at 11:24 am to The ChizMan Cometh
quote:
For the sake of argument let's assume Cam knew what his father was doing at MSU. Let's also assume that AU offered him nothing as they have claimed and the NCAA has said there is no evidence showing that they did.
If you are the NCAA how do you punish AU for violations that occurred at another school? If you rule him ineligible at AU, and there for all the games he played in have to be vacated because he is ineligible, you are punishing a school that you the NCAA can find no evidence of wrong doing.
I think that's probably what the NCAA was faced with at the time of their decision. A ruling of ineligible would do far greater damage to AU because of championship implications and the millions of dollars at stake.
They probably did hear Cecil say Cam was in the room, but since Cam's voice isn't on the tape they couldn't verify he was actually there sitting beside Cecil involved in the discussion. A good layer would probably have argued that he could have been in the room, but how long was he there and how involved was he in the discussion.
In the end I think it was a decision of convenience for all parties involved. The NCAA didn't have to burn a program down because of violations at another school. AU didn't have to vacate wins and ruin a championship season. MSU got to ban a booster, but didn't get hammered because they didn't pay anyone, and Cam went elsewhere. Cam got to finish the year, win the Heisman and a championship.
This is a very plausable explanation.
But, if Cam knew about his father's shinanigans, then one could say that Cam approved of them.
What's to stop every other recruit and their parents from doing the same exact thing. Especially in light of the fact that NO ONE will suffer any consequences for such deplorable actions?
Posted on 2/25/11 at 11:24 am to joeyb147
quote:
What?
I'm pretty sure everyone on here was convinced that since the FBI was involved, EVERYTHING was going to come to light.... but now you say they kept these tapes on ice EVEN AFTER the FBI was interrogating them?
Damn... the stories on here change monthly...
To my knowledge, the FBI is not that concerned with Cecil or Cam. They are looking more into Bobby Lowder and Milton McGregor and if some info comes out that these 2 had a hand in the Newton deal then so be it.
Posted on 2/25/11 at 11:25 am to NukemVol
quote:Many think that Cecil was lying about other offers to make his demand to MSU look reasonable. That is just one explanation of many possible ones.
This doesn't make sense to me because Tennessee was never really after Cam all that strong (never visited us, wasn't ever really on his list, didn't have the offense). We were after Scroggins, Sims, Brunetti, Heaps, Hendrix, Rettig, Montana, etc.. but never really Cam. Did we offer all them money as well?
Posted on 2/25/11 at 11:26 am to The ChizMan Cometh
quote:
For the sake of argument let's assume Cam knew what his father was doing at MSU. Let's also assume that AU offered him nothing as they have claimed and the NCAA has said there is no evidence showing that they did.
If you are the NCAA how do you punish AU for violations that occurred at another school? If you rule him ineligible at AU, and there for all the games he played in have to be vacated because he is ineligible, you are punishing a school that you the NCAA can find no evidence of wrong doing.
They would have to rule him ineligible. Auburn took a calculated risk with him, knowing his background, and knowing that Miss St had reported to the SEC offices what occurred. While it would suck for Au fans, the University would be totally responsible for anything that happened, once they signed and played him, without doing due diligence on their part in finding out the truth. In many respects, it appears they just buried their heads in the sand and ignored things, until they came to light. And as WDE said, if that were the case, it cannot go without being punished, or it would be rampant across the college landscape.
Posted on 2/25/11 at 11:26 am to WDE24
That may be true but I think the situation was pretty unique. The school in question was not 7 5 and having an average season. There was a championship race involved, along with many millions of dollars in revenue for a program. The decision to take all of that away from a school because of violations at another school is much more serious than taking away some wins for a school that is 5 and 5.
If AU is 7 5 or 8 4 I think it's a much easier decision. Yeah they have to suffer some post season revenue, but not 15 to 20 million dollars in revenue.
If AU is 7 5 or 8 4 I think it's a much easier decision. Yeah they have to suffer some post season revenue, but not 15 to 20 million dollars in revenue.
Posted on 2/25/11 at 11:27 am to auburntiger77
quote:
he NCAA ruled Cam eligible, you only vacate games if you knowingly play an ineligible player, so again the records stand.
They said, eligible.. at this time. just to clarify.
Posted on 2/25/11 at 11:27 am to CoonassBulldog
You suck arse CoonassDog...You keep posting all this BS about radio stations around the state saying this and that and they always end up being a dud.
Posted on 2/25/11 at 11:28 am to auburntiger77
quote:
Ok let's assume the tapes are 100 percent legit. They do not prove Auburn paid money, so the records stand. They would not show that Auburn knew that MSU was dirty, so again the records stand. The NCAA ruled Cam eligible, you only vacate games if you knowingly play an ineligible player, so again the records stand. Until someone has a tape showing Auburn knew, then all records will stand. Prove Auburn paid and then I will worry.
His reinstatement was based on him not knowing his father was acting as his agent. If it comes out he in fact did know his father was shopping him, it would potentially negate that eligibility ruling.
Remember, the NCAA was never able to prove money changed hands in the Albert Means case.
Posted on 2/25/11 at 11:28 am to Monticello
quote:That's not what I am saying. Just becaue the NCAA didn't hear the tapes, doesn't mean they didn't question Bond and Bell about what they knew. Wouldn't the NCAA ask them if Cam was aware of the scheme and, if so, how did they know that. Bell and Bond surely were questioned about their communications with Cecil and Cam's presence or knowledge of those communications. Did they lie or did the NCAA just not deem them credible? Just seems strange, if such tapes exists and contain the info claimed.
I would say it is very possible that Bond did not let the NCAA hear all of the tapes. That is what this radio host is saying. The NCAA has no ability to force them to play the tapes.
Posted on 2/25/11 at 11:28 am to auburntiger77
quote:
Ok let's assume the tapes are 100 percent legit. They do not prove Auburn paid money, so the records stand. They would not show that Auburn knew that MSU was dirty, so again the records stand. The NCAA ruled Cam eligible, you only vacate games if you knowingly play an ineligible player, so again the records stand. Until someone has a tape showing Auburn knew, then all records will stand. Prove Auburn paid and then I will worry.
That's bullshite! The fricking NCAA ruled the textbook players eligible to fricking play ball - so Bama played them. Then the NCAA came back later and vacated the games the players played in...
Posted on 2/25/11 at 11:29 am to auburntiger77
quote:
Ok let's assume the tapes are 100 percent legit. They do not prove Auburn paid money, so the records stand. They would not show that Auburn knew that MSU was dirty, so again the records stand. The NCAA ruled Cam eligible, you only vacate games if you knowingly play an ineligible player, so again the records stand. Until someone has a tape showing Auburn knew, then all records will stand. Prove Auburn paid and then I will worry.
You are going to be sadly disappointed. Whether Auburn paid or not will be the critical issue as to whether Auburn is hit with major sanctions. However, if Cam knew his father was trying to shop him, he was ineligible from that point forward. 0-14, banners down, open and shut case. And Auburn can't claim they had never heard anything about Cecil seeking money because they decided to play Cam for several games after these allegations were made public.
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