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where is the middle ground re: this coronavirus that came.from China?
Posted on 5/5/20 at 9:27 am
Posted on 5/5/20 at 9:27 am
more and more, it is looking like this was intentional by the Chinese
we still have to find a way to restart our economic engine
but it should be obvious to everyone that common sense measures, like social distancing and even wearing masks in some situations are necessary
where can we find a balance? how do we, in America, preserve our freedom, restore our economy and stay safe?
sheltering in place for.months on end is untenable, letting people face economic and personal ruin is untenable
where is the balance?
bringing this here because I already know what the poli board will say...
we still have to find a way to restart our economic engine
but it should be obvious to everyone that common sense measures, like social distancing and even wearing masks in some situations are necessary
where can we find a balance? how do we, in America, preserve our freedom, restore our economy and stay safe?
sheltering in place for.months on end is untenable, letting people face economic and personal ruin is untenable
where is the balance?
bringing this here because I already know what the poli board will say...
12
Posted on 5/5/20 at 10:27 am to dcbl
quote:
where is the balance?
quote:
common sense measures, like social distancing and even wearing masks in some situations are necessary
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:09 am to dcbl
quote:
more and more, it is looking like this was intentional by the Chinese
Whether they created this virus in a lab and released with intent to cause a global health crisis seems kinda far fetched, but then again, it's China
Whether it was created in a lab and released accidentally or manifested in wet market is up for debate, I lean more towards lab accident personally. Irregardless, The attempted cover up is undeniably intentional, and that alone has caused a global health and economic crisis the likes of which we have never seen.
The entire world should be and probably is expecting China to be held accountable for this, and severely punished. Hope it happens, frick China
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:13 am to dcbl
Until there's much more effective treatments and potential vaccine it would seem that a lot of social distancing will be necessary.
However, it seems that the measures which made the most difference were those limiting large gatherings.
The amount of "outbreaks" tied to concerts, religious gatherings/funerals, large factories without distancing protocols etc seems to confirm this as does the stark contrast between SF/NYC where the main difference was California's earlier ban on gatherings of 50 then 25 then 10/5 people.
Unfortunately, the more extreme lockdown measures (whether that's due to enough people ignoring them or/and just how easily this spreads) has not brought us to where most experts hoped it would. Even though cases have dropped significantly, I think most projections thought the lockdowns would have us lower than 20-30K tested new cases every day at this point.
It would seem that we have to start opening things back up --especially in the regard that rural areas are not the same risk as urban ones -- but with a much more clear message that jumping right back into larger gatherings is a recipe for another shutdown since there are still so many cases floating around.
However, it seems that the measures which made the most difference were those limiting large gatherings.
The amount of "outbreaks" tied to concerts, religious gatherings/funerals, large factories without distancing protocols etc seems to confirm this as does the stark contrast between SF/NYC where the main difference was California's earlier ban on gatherings of 50 then 25 then 10/5 people.
Unfortunately, the more extreme lockdown measures (whether that's due to enough people ignoring them or/and just how easily this spreads) has not brought us to where most experts hoped it would. Even though cases have dropped significantly, I think most projections thought the lockdowns would have us lower than 20-30K tested new cases every day at this point.
It would seem that we have to start opening things back up --especially in the regard that rural areas are not the same risk as urban ones -- but with a much more clear message that jumping right back into larger gatherings is a recipe for another shutdown since there are still so many cases floating around.
This post was edited on 5/5/20 at 11:29 am
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:23 am to Vols&Shaft83
quote:I am inclined to agree with this
Whether it was created in a lab and released accidentally or manifested in wet market is up for debate, I lean more towards lab accident personally. Irregardless, The attempted cover up is undeniably intentional, and that alone has caused a global health and economic crisis the likes of which we have never seen.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:25 am to wm72
and I agree with this 100%
we are on the brink of facing food shortages
for MOST Americans, this means higher prices (which reduce our standard of living), for many 3rd world countries this means poverty, famine and starvation
my thought is that food shortages are a bigger danger than the virus
we are on the brink of facing food shortages
for MOST Americans, this means higher prices (which reduce our standard of living), for many 3rd world countries this means poverty, famine and starvation
my thought is that food shortages are a bigger danger than the virus
This post was edited on 5/5/20 at 12:06 pm
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:10 pm to dcbl
quote:
my thought is that food shortages are a bigger danger than the virus
Much bigger, but apparently a COVID-19 death is more tragic than all the other deaths that will result from shutting down the bulk of the US economy and forcing people to stay indoors including suicides, domestic violence, alcoholism, deaths due to postponed medical procedures, surgeries, wellness checks and if food shortages happen, starvation.
Did we have to curb behavior to protect the most vulnerable amongst us and keep certain hospitals frombeing overwhelmed? of course. Did we have to go these extremes, I highly doubt it. And in the end, these lockdowns haven't saved a single life, the virus is here and will be for a very long time.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:12 pm to dcbl
quote:I want to clarify this statement, I am mostly addressing the fact that China intentionally allowed this virus to spread and lied about its effects
more and more, it is looking like this was intentional by the Chinese
by doing that, they killed a lot of people
I do think this virus might have been manipulated in their lab, but am not saying that is a fact
Posted on 5/5/20 at 3:01 pm to dcbl
quote:
I do think this virus might have been manipulated in their lab, but am not saying that is a fact
From the science I have read, this seems very unlikely. This appears to be a completely natural virus. They do crop up from time to time as much as we wish they would not.
Now. That having been said.
China absolutely unleashed this beast on the world by down playing it and saying it was under control. This would be a disaster under the best of circumstances. When you add in our President, love him or hate him, governs by personal relations, and that Europe was inclined to give China the benefit of the doubt it created a firestorm.
Yes, most governments did not react as well as Australia (right wing) and New Zealand (left wing) did to this virus. That having been said most governments took China at its word.
I don't think anyone should ever make that mistake again. The Chinese government can not be trusted.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 4:20 pm to Arksulli
Whether or not it was intentional China did know enough to build a from the ground up hospital in just a matter of days, and then went mum instead of saying something to the rest of the world.*
What vaccine?
In todays headlines. this virus was officially listed as yet another in a long line of mutaters. Personally I think we had to at least try isolation. Was it a first step knee jerk reaction? Perhaps, however doing nothing would have also had a devastating effect on the national psyche (and it's an election year). I'm guessing herd immunity, which what I've always thought, is ultimately going to rule the day. It just wasn't something that was palatable before going down path one.
* and if we take their word, that China did manage to wipe it out in Wuhan, wouldn't they be even more complicit in the subsequent deaths that have gone around our-whirl? So the middle ground? Either they lied or played as dumb.... as we did by allowing so much mission critical business with known liars and outright (intellectual rights) thieves. Our NWO détente run amok in the age of corona viruses... and just another something that'll never go back in the bottle.
(etc: 3quarters of that rush job)
What vaccine?
In todays headlines. this virus was officially listed as yet another in a long line of mutaters. Personally I think we had to at least try isolation. Was it a first step knee jerk reaction? Perhaps, however doing nothing would have also had a devastating effect on the national psyche (and it's an election year). I'm guessing herd immunity, which what I've always thought, is ultimately going to rule the day. It just wasn't something that was palatable before going down path one.
* and if we take their word, that China did manage to wipe it out in Wuhan, wouldn't they be even more complicit in the subsequent deaths that have gone around our-whirl? So the middle ground? Either they lied or played as dumb.... as we did by allowing so much mission critical business with known liars and outright (intellectual rights) thieves. Our NWO détente run amok in the age of corona viruses... and just another something that'll never go back in the bottle.
(etc: 3quarters of that rush job)
This post was edited on 5/6/20 at 4:38 am
Posted on 5/5/20 at 5:38 pm to dcbl
quote:
more and more, it is looking like this was intentional by the Chinese
You seem like a nice guy. I don’t buy into either the Fox or CNN shitastic scenarios. I’d advise you do the same & keep your sanity.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 5:40 pm to NoMansLand
quote:the Chinese intentionally allowed this virus to spread world wide and lied about it
You seem like a nice guy. I don’t buy into either the Fox or CNN shitastic scenarios. I’d advise you do the same & keep your sanity.
they also claimed that it was manufactured by the US military
that's not Fox News hype
Posted on 5/5/20 at 5:57 pm to dcbl
Did they? I don’t know & what plan do you have to punish them? I would focus on things like balancing opening states vs increased cases, planning for phase 2 and will we ever have a vaccine? But that’s me.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 6:02 pm to dcbl
quote:
the Chinese intentionally allowed this virus to spread world wide and lied about it
The Chinese lie about anything that makes their government look bad. I am sure they did their best to stop it once they realized how badly they had fricked up... but yeah. They would blame anyone but their government.
This is not a hostile and malicious act... this is a lot of governments, starting with China, screwing up by the numbers. And yes. Our government was one of those that screwed up.
Oddly enough, this is the plot of World War Z. A virus starts in China. The government tries to cover it up and contain it. They fail and it spreads around the world.
If it helps any the Chinese have managed to rally past their disastrous response by mocking the difficulties we are having. So we have that going for us.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 7:00 pm to Vols&Shaft83
Down vote for using irregardless
Posted on 5/5/20 at 9:11 pm to NoMansLand
yes, Iran also parroted the Chinese propaganda
from the NYT -
China Spins Tale That the U.S. Army Started the Coronavirus Epidemic
eta, I would punish then by moving most of our manufacturing away from them, ALL of our critical manufacturing for damn sure, i.e. medical supplies, hi tech and pharmaceuticals
from the NYT -
China Spins Tale That the U.S. Army Started the Coronavirus Epidemic
eta, I would punish then by moving most of our manufacturing away from them, ALL of our critical manufacturing for damn sure, i.e. medical supplies, hi tech and pharmaceuticals
This post was edited on 5/5/20 at 9:17 pm
Posted on 5/13/20 at 12:32 pm to dcbl
Well that sounds great as a sound byte, but exactly how are you going to do it? I’m not saying you’re wrong, but you have to realize every billionaire in the world will oppose you on it. And our own government.
Capitalism thrives on margins, and what you’re saying trims those margins to near zero, if not negative. You, me and everyone else will have to accept astronomically high prices for necessities to “bring it back”.
This isn’t ideology. It’s dollars. Every single politician spreads arse like a fig for dollars and votes. Don’t kid yourself.
When they say it’s not about the money. It’s about the money.
Capitalism thrives on margins, and what you’re saying trims those margins to near zero, if not negative. You, me and everyone else will have to accept astronomically high prices for necessities to “bring it back”.
This isn’t ideology. It’s dollars. Every single politician spreads arse like a fig for dollars and votes. Don’t kid yourself.
When they say it’s not about the money. It’s about the money.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 1:28 pm to Kcprogguitar
The initial premise of the post being that it was intentional is where I question one’s sanity. China, of all countries, studies more about zoonotic diseases than anyone else since their people expose themselves the most. Not only would they risk an uncontrollable exposure to their own people. But assume it was intended as a secret biological weapon against the U.S., they would reduce a substantial part of their exports & face worldwide backlash after source tracing is done.
Yes, the virus did start in China. Yes, China lied about the spread level, prevented almost all outside scientists from getting a foothold on reducing spread by being secretive.
We need to send a clear message that this was unacceptable and they must share research and extremely limit/regulate (they will never be eliminated) wet markets and outright ban contacting bats and other highly infectious animals.
The POTUS needs to do one of his famous 180s (aka Kim Jong-Un) & work on diplomacy. Stop just providing worthless sound bytes to improve his image.
Yes, the virus did start in China. Yes, China lied about the spread level, prevented almost all outside scientists from getting a foothold on reducing spread by being secretive.
We need to send a clear message that this was unacceptable and they must share research and extremely limit/regulate (they will never be eliminated) wet markets and outright ban contacting bats and other highly infectious animals.
The POTUS needs to do one of his famous 180s (aka Kim Jong-Un) & work on diplomacy. Stop just providing worthless sound bytes to improve his image.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 2:41 pm to NoMansLand
quote:
Yes, the virus did start in China. Yes, China lied about the spread level, prevented almost all outside scientists from getting a foothold on reducing spread by being secretive.
We need to send a clear message that this was unacceptable and they must share research and extremely limit/regulate (they will never be eliminated) wet markets and outright ban contacting bats and other highly infectious animals.
Hear, hear.
There is more than enough blame to go around, with an extra heaping helping for China, without giving any credence to conspiracy theories.
China couldn't be so incompetent as to let this happen on their watch some will say. We are, after all, talking about a nation that has built entire cities that are effectively ghost towns and tried to pass them off as thriving because it would be too damaging to their image to admit they screwed up.
The global response to potential pandemics can be incredible, with enormous resources that can be brought to bear in a short period of time. If... and this is the big one... if everyone is honest right at the start. China tried to sweep this under the rug and some politicians, not just Trump but around the world, wanted to believe them. Because the alternative was pretty damn scary.
We're stuck with this now. At our current rate we will pass the 100,000 dead mark in about ten days. Since we have to reopen the economy to some degree that number is probably going to keep growing. We should, by all means, hold China's feet to the fire and I am fairly certain whoever wins the coming election is going to have a severe case of the red arse when it comes to them.
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