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re: tOfficial "Alahunter is Insufferable" thread
Posted on 10/7/14 at 11:52 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Posted on 10/7/14 at 11:52 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
Let's say there was an immense revulsion to Jessica Alba -- if you had an attraction to her, you were considered subhuman, disgusting, filthy, horrible, a monster.
frick me I'm as disgusting as they come then. I'd crawl inside one of her tampons and wait in the box for months just for the chance to bathe in her period blood for a few days.
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Posted on 10/7/14 at 11:52 pm to Alahunter
You're still missing a big point.
Posted on 10/7/14 at 11:54 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
As a doctor, you know what I do if someone comes to me and says they need help with sexual attraction to kids? I have to report them because, if they end up raping a kid one day and it gets back that he told me about those urges, I'm done. Finished. I have to protect myself even when there isn't a victim yet. It isn't legally defined without a suspected victim, but no one is going to take that risk.
Legally-if like other states-you're only required to report them if, (1) they are reasonably suspected to have committed a crime that caused harm to another person, or (2) are in imminent danger of committing a crime that would cause harm to another person. That being the case, do all such persons with a fetish toward children fall into either of these 2 categories? By reporting them at the outset is that not what you are implicating-that they cannot be helped from causing harm to a child?
I understand that you don't want to be implicated or sued if one commits such a crime, but is that because they can't be helped from committing such an act? Otherwise, isn't that a violation of doctor-patient confidentiality?
Outside of self control-are there simply no resources whatsoever to aid these persons if they do have such an aversion, but wish to contain it?
And as to sex being a natural desire-so is eating. Eating other humans-even in times of ultimate desire-is still wrong. That argument is bunk.
I have quite a bit more than a 4 year degree, but enlighten me.
This post was edited on 10/7/14 at 11:57 pm
Posted on 10/7/14 at 11:55 pm to Alahunter
quote:
And? Life is tough. When you have a desire or there is something that is detrimental, you remove yourself from the situation. He has recourse. That it isn't what he wants isn't a terrible thing. As far as types and degrees of urges being wildly different.. again, so what? It doesn't have the same effect on different married people? Are we to say it's such a shame that Joe has to suffer in misery his entire life, because HIS urges to cheat are much stronger than Jims.
Still off base from what RK is saying.
And I often disagree with him, but he's spot on here.
Posted on 10/7/14 at 11:55 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
Let's draw up a different scenario. Let's say there was an immense revulsion to Jessica Alba -- if you had an attraction to her, you were considered subhuman, disgusting, filthy, horrible, a monster. Let's say one day you wake up and you can't stop thinking about her. Anyone you turn to -- your mother, your father, your priest, your doctor -- they're all going to call you disgusting but the thing is: You can't help yourself. You don't even want to like her. You want to be normal. You know that the moment you tell anyone in society there's a chance that people may put you in a place where you're probably going to be used as a human toilet and murdered. So instead of talking to people about it -- for years you don't do anything. Have you ever liked a girl so much that you couldn't stop thinking about them? I know I have in the past.
You make a decision to eliminate what is harmful. It's pretty damn simple. You choose to dwell on that person, you choose to see what they are up to. You choose to engulf yourself in them. Or, you choose to move on, you choose to make a decision to remove all temptation, so that you CAN be happy, and that you CAN live a moral life.
quote:
If you say you can empathize with that feeling and maintain your position I don't think we can call you intellectually honest, because the emotional part of this is far too encumbering to bypass (and I empathize with that to some degree).
I'm reminded of a quote, When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things.
quote:
We need to change the system to get a better grip on the illness, it's the only way to progress
And this is the disconnect in our thinking. It's not an illness. Science can't fix morality and sin. But it can help increase immorality by finding ways to accept peoples actions and in a way, excuse them by labeling them as incapable of controlling them.
Posted on 10/7/14 at 11:57 pm to TbirdSpur2010
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but he's spot on here.
I reckon we'll probably agree to disagree on this one.
Posted on 10/7/14 at 11:57 pm to Alahunter
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And? Life is tough.
You have no way of looking at this objectively, do you
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That it isn't what he wants isn't a terrible thing.
We're talking about someone who knows its wrong and wants help, which is how A LOT of pedophiles you never know about feel.
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As far as types and degrees of urges being wildly different.. again, so what? It doesn't have the same effect on different married people?
No, because such a person still has an acceptable outlet for their urges within marriage AND, if he cheats, society will accept him eventually. Every single person here likely has a friend (or many) who cheated on a wife or girlfriend at some point. How many pedophile friends do you have?
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Are we to say it's such a shame that Joe has to suffer in misery his entire life, because HIS urges to cheat are much stronger than Jims.
You have to be trolling now
Posted on 10/7/14 at 11:58 pm to Alahunter
quote:
labeling them as incapable of controlling them.
you keep saying this same shite over and over and over. NOBODY IS frickING SAYING THAT
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:01 am to Roger Klarvin
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No, because such a person still has an acceptable outlet for their urges within marriage AND, if he cheats, society will accept him eventually
Cheating is not an acceptable outlet within a marriage, and portions of society will accept him, sure. But that doesn't make it any less immoral or damaging.
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Every single person here likely has a friend (or many) who cheated on a wife or girlfriend at some point
So, the more that do it, makes it more acceptable? We just don't have enough pedo's now?
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How many pedophile friends do you have?
To my knowledge and hopefully forever... none.
quote:
You have to be trolling now
As good an analogy as Jessica Alba.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:02 am to Alahunter
quote:
I reckon we'll probably agree to disagree on this one.
Except not really
You're talking about something completely different than RK is. I agree with you about controlling urges that are detrimental to society and not acting on them. However, I also agree with RK's assessment that we offer no real viable support to those who struggle with such, unlike those who struggle with other vices.
You are talking about actions, which all of us condemn. RK is specifically referring to the fact that we need a more concrete way of helping these people. Just shunning them for admitting they need help (while we praise others for doing the same with their societally detrimental vices) is disingenuous.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:03 am to UMRealist
quote:
you keep saying this same shite over and over and over. NOBODY IS frickING SAYING THAT
Sure it's being said, can't control them, and if they can.. they live in misery forever. Because, you know.. they just can't remove temptation and are doomed to obsess for life. Nobody in any other walk of life lives happy lives after dealing with their own other demons.
Why so angry?
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:04 am to DownSouthJukin
quote:
Legally-if like other states-you're only required to report them if, (1) they are reasonably suspected to have committed a crime that caused harm to another person, or (2) are in imminent danger of committing a crime that would cause harm to another person. That being the case, do all such persons with a fetish toward children fall into either of these 2 categories? By reporting them at the outset is that not what you are implicating-that they cannot be helped from causing harm to a child?
As I said, it isn't required but no doctor would take that risk. It isn't saying anything other than I want to protect my arse and self-preservation is a human instinct. It isn't like someone who says they have an urge to rob a bank, the justice system goes scorched earth when it comes to child sex cases. Anyone who played any part in allowing it to happen could potentially be in trouble. Doctors can and have been punished for not reporting pedophiles who had divulged their urges to them and then, after a victim came forward later, it was discovered they knew of his desires.
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Otherwise, isn't that a violation of doctor-patient confidentiality?
You could make that argument, but no lawyer who wants to ever try another case again would take up arms for a patient who wanted to sue you over this. You gonna volunteer to be the lawyer who sued on behalf of the child rapist? Good luck.
No doctor would ever successfully be sued or punished for reporting a pedophile.
quote:
And as to sex being a natural desire-so is eating. Eating other humans-even in times of ultimate desire-is still wrong. That argument is bunk.
I don't see many people wanting to consume human flesh running around, and those who do are going to be your schizophrenics who we can treat.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:06 am to Roger Klarvin
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You have no way of looking at this objectively, do you
This is the major problem -- any person who advocates a better system (no matter their education) will be immediately shown the plank. It's not such a simple issue -- unless you're not informed psychologically about it and keeping up with contemporary scientific articles.
He won't be objective about this because he can't empathize with it -- either from a lack of imagination or an inability to look beyond disgust.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:06 am to Alahunter
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Cheating is not an acceptable outlet within a marriage, and portions of society will accept him, sure. But that doesn't make it any less immoral or damaging.
Nobody's saying cheating's acceptable, moral, or without consequence.
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So, the more that do it, makes it more acceptable?
Again, nobody's condoning the behavior, just accepting the fact that it does, in fact, occur, and that these people do not face the same social ostracization as pedos.
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To my knowledge and hopefully forever... none.
Meh, it's statistically probable that you do. Whether you find out or not and whether you like it or not doesn't change the probability. Everyone is always shocked/stunned/whatever when these things come out, because it's not like pedos can't be completely "normal" people in every other respect.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:06 am to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
. However, I also agree with RK's assessment that we offer no real viable support to those who struggle with such, unlike those who struggle with other vices.
Well.. its not exactly a vice. It's a criminal, immoral behavior that harms other individuals. It's no more a vice than murder or rape.
quote:
Just shunning them for admitting they need help (while we praise others for doing the same with their societally detrimental vices) is disingenuous.
Reminds me of the homosexual movement. It was once thought of as immoral and detrimental, but enough societal acceptance and helping folks deal with their "vice", has made it mainstream and acceptable. Not sure that's the best route to go with pedophilia as well.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:08 am to Alahunter
quote:
Reminds me of the homosexual movement. It was once thought of as immoral and detrimental, but enough societal acceptance and helping folks deal with their "vice", has made it mainstream and acceptable. Not sure that's the best route to go with pedophilia as well.
I think the majority of people arguing against you have been unbelievably lucid in detailing how this is not condoned.
Simply that we need to figure out a better way to curtail these problems.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:08 am to TbirdSpur2010
Which is why I stated, to my knowledge.. and hopefully, never.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:09 am to Alahunter
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Sure it's being said, can't control them, and if they can.. they live in misery forever.
The urges are what cannot be controlled. Acting upon them can. There is a difference.
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you know.. they just can't remove temptation
That's like asking you to remove any and all attraction to a gorgeous woman. Frankly, it's not possible. No one is saying that you don't have the ability to control lustful urges towards her, but the temptation is there because that's your sexual proclivity.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:09 am to Alahunter
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I continue to see actions being excused away and an attempt at sympathy for the perpetrators.
What others are calling attempts to understand the pedophile, you are calling attempts to sympathize. Empathy is necessary if we are to understand members of society who bring harm to it. Only then can we look for solutions.
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It's a simple act of choice.
There are three primary drives that all humans are subject to: Sleep, nourishment (eating and drinking), and sex. Without the first two we will quickly die.
Without the third, we can be socially and emotionally crippled. For all of us, a sexual orientation is determined during our developmental years. This orientation is based on epigenetic proclivities over which we have no control.
Some sexual orientations are pathogenic to society. Rape and pedophilia are especially harmful. While people who have these orientations can sometimes suppress them and conform to a society's mores, more often they succumb to their natural but loathsome desires.
It's imperative that we understand how and why this happens so that we might discover any way of ameliorating their conditions. Research may one day allow society to "mend" those sexual orientations that cause harm.
It's not a choice and it's most definitely not simple.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:09 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
think the majority of people arguing against you have been unbelievably lucid in detailing how this is not condoned
But, it will end up there, by going that route. It'd be, will be, inevitable.
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