Started By
Message
re: Sometime around 2000 years ago something amazing happened (no it wasn’t A&Ms last FB natty
Posted on 12/24/17 at 11:23 pm to hogNsinceReagan
Posted on 12/24/17 at 11:23 pm to hogNsinceReagan
quote:You will show them by believing in fairy tales. You go you!
Checking in and doing my best to get the athiests to get down or lay down.
0
Posted on 12/25/17 at 12:33 pm to Old Sarge
What's amazing is that so many people think that a virgin was knocked up by a deity and then gave birth to a son who performed miracles and rose from the dead and promises eternal life and bliss to all who believe it.
But then when I read my Facebook feed and much of it consists of people asking for prayers and being glad that deceased loved ones are in Heaven it makes sense. Emotion is generally stronger than reason, and Jesus is the ultimate coping mechanism for tough times.
Funny thing, though: You don't really ever see people praying for things that would take more than subtlety to mend. People might pray for someone with cancer (usually with a little help from doctors), but I doubt they pray much for amputated limbs to grow back or someone covered in 3rd degree burns from a fire to have their body restored to normal.
But then when I read my Facebook feed and much of it consists of people asking for prayers and being glad that deceased loved ones are in Heaven it makes sense. Emotion is generally stronger than reason, and Jesus is the ultimate coping mechanism for tough times.
Funny thing, though: You don't really ever see people praying for things that would take more than subtlety to mend. People might pray for someone with cancer (usually with a little help from doctors), but I doubt they pray much for amputated limbs to grow back or someone covered in 3rd degree burns from a fire to have their body restored to normal.
Posted on 12/25/17 at 6:29 pm to CNB
quote:
Jesus wasn't born in December
No one knows the true day/date Jesus was born, but Christians have set aside this day to celebrate the event.
Posted on 12/25/17 at 7:14 pm to Globetrotter747
It is amazing that the Intelligence who designed and installed the universe, would step into time and space, that the infinite would become an infant, with the ultimate purpose of doing for us what we could never do for ourselves: change our certain death into eternal life.
A greater Love has never been!
Merry Christmas to everyone!
A greater Love has never been!
Merry Christmas to everyone!
Posted on 12/25/17 at 7:50 pm to Perfect Circle
quote:
It is amazing that the Intelligence who designed and installed the universe, would step into time and space, that the infinite would become an infant, with the ultimate purpose of doing for us what we could never do for ourselves: change our certain death into eternal life. A greater Love has never been!
You and I have such different views, my friend. I hope all's well with you.
Posted on 12/26/17 at 6:03 am to Globetrotter747
All's well Globetrotter! Despite the disagreements we can respect each other's beliefs.
Hope you have a wonderful New Year! All the best to you.
Hope you have a wonderful New Year! All the best to you.
Posted on 12/26/17 at 6:25 am to Old Sarge
Posted on 12/27/17 at 5:48 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
It is amazing that the Intelligence who designed and installed the universe, would step into time and space, that the infinite would become an infant, with the ultimate purpose of doing for us what we could never do for ourselves: change our certain death into eternal life.
A greater Love has never been!
Merry Christmas to everyone!
What is even more amazing is that an intelligence who designed time and space would be so petty to worry about what some humans would do on Earth, that he threatened them with eternal damnation in a fiery pit in hell if they choose to not acknowledge the intelligent being as your lord and god. Seems like the intelligent being would not give humans only 1 life to make this decision and further more would not create whole groups of people who live in the remotest of remote places on Earth and never even got a chance to hear about his bastard child (Or did god marry Mary?), so in turn they get to spend eternal damnation into the depths of hell.
Seems like an all loving God would not pull this bullshite on its creation for something so petty in not believing in him/jesus/holy ghost/etc. But alas, the Christian god is not an all loving God, rather a jealous and vengeful god. One that likes to test people like Job by destroying everything he had, just to prove to the devil his blind allegiance, or like with Abraham trying to get him to kill his on son.
But maybe the christians have it right? Like you can live your whole life and kill and murder and be the shittiest person ever (Hitler) but as long as you accept Jesus/God as your true overlord before you die, it nullifies all the fricked up shite you did in your past. I think that is the biggest appeal to Christians, because that way you can do what you want when you want, and just ask for forgiveness later on. Its win win win. Plus I think they like telling the 'heathens' that they are going to hell, as it makes their shite stink just a bit less.
Posted on 12/27/17 at 12:28 pm to Old Sarge
quote:
An ancient and powerful promise was fulfilled, a Savior was born, sent from our Creator to fulfill the need for a permanent and final sacrifice for our sins.
If you haven’t yet, accept this gift, I implore you during this season to truly consider this.
Merry Christmas and God Bless you all
It's a shame Yahweh wasn't smart enough or powerful enough or creative enough to come up with a "savior" plan that didn't involve the murder of his son because I only serve gods who come up with plans that aren't terrible.
Posted on 12/27/17 at 2:39 pm to dawgsjw
Thank you for your opinion, though it's not one I share. The fact that you felt compelled to reply in a manner that ridicules and belittles says a lot about you.
You sound more than a little angry. All anger has its roots in fear, which makes me wonder...what are you scared of?
First of all, God condemns no one for the reasons you've given. He has revealed Himself to all men. Romans 1:20 says, "For since the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities- His eternal power and divine nature- have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 2:15 says, "the requirements of the law are written on their hearts." In other words, God has placed a moral code within our hearts.
So men who have never heard the Gospel, sin by denying God, who they know exists, and by breaking the moral code He has placed on their hearts.
God's general revelation is for all men.
Job and Abraham suffered through trials, as we all do, and remained obedient to God. Job's obedience was rewarded many times over. Abraham's reward was even better... He became the father of nations and achieved great wealth.
Trying to understand God based on observation or accumulated knowledge apart from the Bible is futile. He sees the whole of history, like you see the next 5 seconds. His sovereign wisdom is such that He may achieve 10,000 of His purposes with a single event.
It is like an amoeba trying to understand the mind of a human being. It can't be done. But we can be sure that He is everywhere, knows and sees all things, is just and is all-loving. As such, He will always do the right thing.
In addition to God's general revelation, which is for all men, He has given His special revelation: that a holy God exists, and the only Way to eternal fellowship is through Jesus.
Our confusion about His nature and His ways doesn't change this.
Peace to you!
You sound more than a little angry. All anger has its roots in fear, which makes me wonder...what are you scared of?
First of all, God condemns no one for the reasons you've given. He has revealed Himself to all men. Romans 1:20 says, "For since the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities- His eternal power and divine nature- have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 2:15 says, "the requirements of the law are written on their hearts." In other words, God has placed a moral code within our hearts.
So men who have never heard the Gospel, sin by denying God, who they know exists, and by breaking the moral code He has placed on their hearts.
God's general revelation is for all men.
Job and Abraham suffered through trials, as we all do, and remained obedient to God. Job's obedience was rewarded many times over. Abraham's reward was even better... He became the father of nations and achieved great wealth.
Trying to understand God based on observation or accumulated knowledge apart from the Bible is futile. He sees the whole of history, like you see the next 5 seconds. His sovereign wisdom is such that He may achieve 10,000 of His purposes with a single event.
It is like an amoeba trying to understand the mind of a human being. It can't be done. But we can be sure that He is everywhere, knows and sees all things, is just and is all-loving. As such, He will always do the right thing.
In addition to God's general revelation, which is for all men, He has given His special revelation: that a holy God exists, and the only Way to eternal fellowship is through Jesus.
Our confusion about His nature and His ways doesn't change this.
Peace to you!
Posted on 12/27/17 at 4:49 pm to Perfect Circle
quote:
The fact that you felt compelled to reply in a manner that ridicules and belittles says a lot about you.
Yeah your statement of
quote:must look much better from your view up on the high horse?
with the ultimate purpose of doing for us what we could never do for ourselves: change our certain death into eternal life.
quote:
First of all, God condemns no one for the reasons you've given.
So if you don't believe in god/jesus, what happens to you? What are you christians always saying about there being a special place in hell for the nonbelievers? So yes the christian god creates people in these remote places and yet denies them the saviour Jesus christ to save their poor lost souls, only to banish them to hell for not believing in him. Surely you have read the greatest bible verse of all time, John 3:16. But the bible is full of contradictions so I'm sure you can pull some verse out that contradicts J316.
quote:Yeah I'm sure him losing his family and everything he had was totally worth it. Walking down the streets of gold and having his fill of virgins is his reward many times over right?
Job's obedience was rewarded many times over.
quote:See you are just like other christians who believe in these things that don't line up with the christian god.
But we can be sure that He is everywhere, knows and sees all things, is just and is all-loving. As such, He will always do the right thing.
Nahum 1:2
2) A jealous and avenging God is the LORD; The LORD is avenging and wrathful. The LORD takes vengeance on His adversaries, And He reserves wrath for His enemies.
2 Timothy 3:16
15)From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16)All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
quote:Why is it so futile when it is clearly stated in the bible that all scripture is 'god-breathed'? Seems pretty evident what god is feeling and thinking by reading the bible.
Trying to understand God based on observation or accumulated knowledge apart from the Bible is futile.
Posted on 12/27/17 at 10:34 pm to dawgsjw
Not sure what high horse you're talking about.
I explained how God judges men who've received His general blessings as best I could. I can't explain it any better.
I fail to see any contradiction in John 3:16, and the way God dispenses justice to men under His general revelation.
Your comments about Job, streets of gold and virgins have no biblical basis.
Appreciate your quoting the Scriptures. I'm in total agreement with what they say. We're you trying to make some kind of point in doing that?
Trying to understand God based on observation or accumulated knowledge apart from the Bible is futile.
It seems you are saying we can use the Bible to get a glimpse of God's nature. If true, I'm glad were in agreement.
Peace.
I explained how God judges men who've received His general blessings as best I could. I can't explain it any better.
I fail to see any contradiction in John 3:16, and the way God dispenses justice to men under His general revelation.
Your comments about Job, streets of gold and virgins have no biblical basis.
Appreciate your quoting the Scriptures. I'm in total agreement with what they say. We're you trying to make some kind of point in doing that?
Trying to understand God based on observation or accumulated knowledge apart from the Bible is futile.
It seems you are saying we can use the Bible to get a glimpse of God's nature. If true, I'm glad were in agreement.
Peace.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 1:27 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
Appreciate your quoting the Scriptures. I'm in total agreement with what they say. We're you trying to make some kind of point in doing that?
Well you said god is an all loving god, but I posted scriptures showing that the bible states he is vengeful and a jealous god. An all loving god would not possess these qualities. If you agree that the only way to understand 'god' is through the bible, then we see from the bible that god isn't this all loving being that many proclaim him to be. Also many want to refute that the bible isn't exactly gods word, and just man's interpretation of it, which is why I posted the scripture showing that the bible is 'god breathed'. An all loving god would not send its creation to hell for eternity with only 1 life to get it right. An all loving god would not try and tempt people like Job or trick people like Abraham into killing his son. That isn't what an all loving god would do. I guess I'm showing that the christian god of the bible, isn't an all loving god.
quote:
I explained how God judges men who've received His general blessings as best I could. I can't explain it any better.
So what happens to people who don't accept Jesus as their savior? They go to hell?
quote:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16 clearly states that believing in Jesus will get you into heaven. lets not act like this is some hidden knowledge with the christian religion, as it is the most popular bible verse. So again, what happens to the people that are born in remote places that never gets the chance to even hear about Jesus? We ain't talking about receiving some blessings, but about getting into heaven and hell.
quote:Well most christians want to make it clear that if you don't believe like they do, you get to go to a special place to live forever, hell.
Not sure what high horse you're talking about.
Here is what you said: "...with the ultimate purpose of doing for us what we could never do for ourselves: change our certain death into eternal life. "
That is a passive aggressive way of saying that only through your religion can one better yourself. Since without your religion, "we could never do for ourselves". That is the high horse I'm speaking of. You said it a lot nicer than most usually do, but none the less it reeks of you being on a high horse (whether you meant it or not).
quote:
Your comments about Job, streets of gold and virgins have no biblical basis.
So what was Job's reward from God killing off and destroying everything that he had? So you never heard of the streets of gold? Many a preacher made it very clear that the streets are gold in heaven. Maybe because of this?
? Revelation 21:21 ?
21)And the twelve gates were twelve pearls, with each gate consisting of a single pearl. The main street of the city was pure gold, as pure as transparent glass. 22)But I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple...
Posted on 12/28/17 at 6:45 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
Trying to understand God based on observation or accumulated knowledge apart from the Bible is futile.
So what you're saying is (when it comes to Christianity) people should ignore the kind of honest skepticism that is very important to use in a complex, deceptive world and just believe without question?
I look around the world and see countless contradictory religions out there, PC. I know they can't all be right, but they can all be wrong. Therefore, I think it makes good sense to approach them skeptically. You can't really do that by saying, "Here's the Bible. Read it and don't question it. Don't apply any of your hard earned life experience to it. If something doesn't make sense, it's because you can't understand God."
That kind of thing is not just irrational but scary. And because Christians fortify the heads of their children with it - even baptizing them long before they're old enough to have any critical thinking skills - they grow up thinking that any other viewpoint that comes their way is Satan trying to sabotage them. And they completely ignore it. Add to it the allure of eternal life for themselves and their friends and family and a deity watching over them in tough times and you have a damn strong wall around the mind of your average Christian.
There's no wonder religions are such a cultural phenomenon: They're taught to impressionable children by the people they trust the most and they lack any real distinguishable objectivity between them.
I mean, everyone in the world (price being equal) would rather stay at a Four Seasons than a Motel 6 because Four Seasons is an objectively better hotel chain. But in religion there's not a Four Seasons. Religious adherence is like a choice between a Ramada and a Holiday Inn and one is right in front of you and the other is 20 miles outside of town. Which one are you going to choose? The one that's right in front of you.
Well, that's pretty much how most people pick their religions. There's not much distinction between them, so they pick the closest one.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 11:42 am to Globetrotter747
quote:
So what your saying is ( when it comes to Christianity) people should ignore the kind of honest skepticism...and just believe without question.
No. By all means, do as I did and investigate which religion (or no religion) that resonates best with you.
quote:
-even baptizing them long before they're old enough to have any critical thinking skills-
I agree with you. This practice takes place in some sects. I don't agree with it.
quote:
And because Christians fortify their children's heads with it...
This is not unique to Christians. Parents of all cultures, out of love, try to guide their children in the way that seems best to them.
quote:
Well that's pretty much how people pick their religions.
That's an intriguing take. I've always wondered how a religion that was founded in the Middle East became the dominant religion in Europe and the Western Hemisphere.
Likewise I've wondered why the fortunes of the United States and Latin America were so different. Both were colonized at the same time by Christian Europe.
The only difference I've been able to discern is Latin America was colonized by people seeking gold, while the US was first settled by people seeking God...or at least seeking a place where could worship the way they wanted, without persecution.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 1:21 pm to dawgsjw
quote:
Well you said god is an all loving god, but I posted scriptures showing that the bible states he is a vengeful and jealous god.
God is all-loving. He is also Just. God's vengeance is taken on those deserving vengeance.
Human minds cannot reconcile all-loving and vengeful, much the same way we cannot reconcile free-will and election. Just because we can't comprehend it doesn't mean it isn't true.
quote:
So what happens to people who don't accept Jesus as their savior? They go to hell?
Those who hear the Gospel and understand it's message yet reject it, are eternally seperate from God. They have received God's special revelation and have rejected it.
General revelation, based partly on the scripture I quoted, says that since Adam God has revealed Himself to all men, and has impressed His moral compass on them. For this reason all men know there is a God, or at least that there is "something bigger" than them. Likewise, these men understand right from wrong, good and evil.
The generations before Jesus and those who have never heard of Jesus or the Gospel, are judged by God under general revelation...again, that they reject a God who they know exists, and that they have done wrong things knowing they are wrong.
I can't explain it any better.
quote:
That is a passive aggressive way of saying that only through you religion can one better yourself.
When I said God has done for me what I could never do for myself, and He has changed my certain death into eternal life, I'm referencing the fact that Salvation is a free gift from God. It cant be earned through works or trying to be good enough. Romans 10:9 says, "if you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart, Jesus was raised from the dead, you will be saved."
I'm sorry if it seems I'm on a high horse, that's the last thing I want to come across as.
Materially, Job's reward for obedience was made greater than it was before his tribulations. But his greater reward was spiritual and eternal. God judged him according to his faith and it was credited to Him into Savation. Remember, this was pre-Christian, so Job was judged under general revelation.
You are right about the streets of gold. It is biblical. Thanks for straightening me out on that one. I tend to avoid Revelations because it's a difficult book for me to understand. I've got to remedy that situation.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 1:33 pm to Perfect Circle
quote:
No. By all means, do as I did and investigate which religion (or no religion) that resonates best with you.
And out of all the religions out there you just happened to pick the one of your culture.
quote:
This is not unique to Christians. Parents of all cultures, out of love, try to guide their children in the way that seems best to them.
Exactly. And that is why religion (like most things) is cultural. It's really not much different from folks in Alabama cheering for Bama / Auburn and most people in Georgia cheering for UGA / GT.
The point I am trying to make is if there were truly a deity being represented by one of the religions and it wanted us to go a certain direction that I think it would make that clear enough as to consistently break cultural influence.
quote:
I've always wondered how a religion that was founded in the Middle East became the dominant religion in Europe and the Western Hemisphere.
Both Islam and Hinduism have around a billion adherents to go with a couple billion Christians. There are other religions with several hundred million followers. That alone tells me that a religion doesn't have to be true (because they can't all be true) to gain a mighty following.
And as I told you in a different thread, some religion has to have the most followers. I think any advantage Christianity has comes from its history with the Roman Empire and now western culture.
What's the most powerful language in the world? English by far. Why? Because it has the backing of the most influential countries, especially the United States. Does that mean English is a "better" language than French or Spanish? No. It just means that the strength of the countries which speak English have facilitated its growth.
It's the same with Christianity. Historical circumstances have made it the most common religion, but that doesn't mean it's inherently better than other religion. Like the English language, Christianity just caught on with the right countries.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 2:28 pm to Perfect Circle
quote:
That's an intriguing take. I've always wondered how a religion that was founded in the Middle East became the dominant religion in Europe and the Western Hemisphere.
The answer to that mostly lies in the roots of the Jewish Diaspora and mainstream Judaism dislike of the small cult of Christians. Rome would periodically slap down a rebellion in Judea and ship a ton of Jews to Roman provinces... its why Christians were able to amuse themselves by organizing pogroms to wipe out Jewish communities until Hitler gave the practice a bad name.
Early Christians were shipped abroad as well, or moved to avoid persecution. Unlike Judaism, which didn't actively seek to add large numbers of new followers, Christians (and Christianity Part Two: Electric Muslimaloo) were proselytizing by nature. Once they started adopting existing Roman religious days and changing them to fit into Christianity the faith spread like wildfire. Eventually a Roman Emperor by the name of Constantine converted and Christianity became the de facto religion of the Western and Eastern Roman Empires.
The reason the Muslims spread East instead of West (though they gave spreading West the good college try) was that the existing governments of Europe were quite happy with their religion thank you.
Even though they conquered Spain they never managed to get the populace to convert and the last push spread Muslim faith by the sword died out when Jan Sobieski and the Polish Winged Hussars stomped a mudhole in the Turks at the gates of Vienna and effectively saved European civilization. For which Poland's neighbors were so grateful that not long after they carved up the Polish state and it vanished off the map for centuries.
History is not for the faint of heart.
quote:
Likewise I've wondered why the fortunes of the United States and Latin America were so different. Both were colonized at the same time by Christian Europe.
Different goals. Spain was there to loot the natives of valuables and convert souls to Catholicism. They weren't nearly as interested in settling the colonies. When Simon Bolivar failed to establish a United States of Latin America they wound up the way they are now with some variations. Brazil has a massive African population due to the slave trade, Argentina was far more heavily settled by Europeans which is one reason it was so popular when it came time for Nazis to flee Europe, and so on.
Unfortunately for the Native Americans of North America we arrived with the intent to stay thank you very much. To add insult to injury we began to arrive in large numbers right after once of the worst plagues in human history kicked the living you know what out of the Native population.
Conservative estimates are that somewhere around 75% (possibly more) of the Native population died out in a fairly short period of time. Its why early settlers had such an easy time of it when they settled the Midwest... they were in essence stepping into previously farmed land that was now vacant of residents.
With the locals unable to stop us the US and Canada were able to replicate a European style society. I am hoping that God really hating Native Americans didn't play a role in what happened. Nonetheless we won so we get to write the history.
And no, I'm not a white guilt apologist who wants to give the country back. As I said before, history is not for the faint of heart.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 4:04 pm to Arksulli
Thank you Arksulli, cool post.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 5:06 pm to Globetrotter747
quote:
And out of all the religions out there you just happened to pick the one of your culture.
When you say culture, are talking about WASP?
But yes, Christianity is unlike any other religion. It is unique in that Salvation is a free gift, not contingent on any works, or adherence to a long list of strict behaviors one must follow.
quote:
The point I'm trying to make is if there were truly a diety being represented by one of the religions and it wanted us to go a certain direction that I think it would make that clear enough as to consistently break cultural influence.
Well, if you loved someone, wouldn't you want them to love you back of their own accord? You wouldn't want to force them to love you, because that's not love at all.
quote:
Historical circumstances have made it the most common religion...Christianity just caught on with the right countries.
Maybe this is by Design. I think God has made it clear which way He wants us to go. But His nature is such that He's not going to force us.
I'm just curious: are you atheist, agnostic? Do you believe it is at least possible for their to be an absolute truth out there that's spiritual in nature and greater than humanity?
Page 4 of 5
Popular
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News