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re: Birmingham City Council votes to increase minimum wage to $10.10
Posted on 2/25/16 at 10:31 am to JustGetItRight
Posted on 2/25/16 at 10:31 am to JustGetItRight
quote:
I can most certainly have it a way that doesn't involve murdering babies.
So you're for increased taxes, and more entitlement programs for a rapidly growing poor population?
1
Posted on 2/25/16 at 10:36 am to JustGetItRight
quote:
And when you arbitrarily increase the cost of labor, those prices go up even more.
Inflation, how does it work?
Nope.
LINK
Posted on 2/25/16 at 10:37 am to No Colors
quote:
So you're for increased taxes, and more entitlement programs for a rapidly growing poor population?
I've got all those things now. Would I accept more to avoid murdering babies? Absolutely.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 10:39 am to Year of the Dragon
quote:
Nope.
LINK
Nice. You posted a link that didn't say one single word about increasing the cost of goods or inflation.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 10:41 am to JustGetItRight
quote:
Nice. You posted a link that didn't say one single word about increasing the cost of goods or inflation.
Fair enough. I've added a better link below.
This post was edited on 2/25/16 at 10:54 am
Posted on 2/25/16 at 10:44 am to JustGetItRight
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/25/16 at 11:14 am
Posted on 2/25/16 at 10:49 am to JustGetItRight
quote:
Nice. You posted a link that didn't say one single word about increasing the cost of goods or inflation.
Maybe this one will do.
LINK
Posted on 2/25/16 at 10:53 am to BowlJackson
The Germans never had minimum wage until 2015. They had some of the lowest unemployment and youth unemployment in all of Europe for a very long time. Why? Trade unions. The liberals ruined organized labor. But, Americans don't have unions. And we have minimum wage. We enacted minimum wage and now it acts as a de facto and wage negotiator. Eliminate minimum wage and there is no concept of what a "minimum wage" job is. But we can't. And since we can't, we have to raise it.
So this is what will happen in Birmingham... essentially nothing. $10/hr is crappy and $7.25 was probably much lower than what the market would have dictated without a minimum wage. It'll squeeze out a few teenagers(which should be on a different wage scale anyway if we had decent unions negotiate fair price points like the Germans this would happen.) If the $10.10 was too high, you'd see higher skilled people move in to the city and take those jobs, which is happening in San Francisco because they set their wages to like $15/hr. This is all simple economics.
So this is what will happen in Birmingham... essentially nothing. $10/hr is crappy and $7.25 was probably much lower than what the market would have dictated without a minimum wage. It'll squeeze out a few teenagers(which should be on a different wage scale anyway if we had decent unions negotiate fair price points like the Germans this would happen.) If the $10.10 was too high, you'd see higher skilled people move in to the city and take those jobs, which is happening in San Francisco because they set their wages to like $15/hr. This is all simple economics.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 10:54 am to Year of the Dragon
Really? That's your retort? The section of the page that says the minimum wage doesn't go up with prices?
Well, I guess when you don't have anything else that's as good as you can do.
I particularly like the fact that you added the sentence:
Minimum wage adjusts with inflation it does not cause it to increase.
As if it is part of the FAQ when in fact it does not appear in the linked section at all and directly contradicts the text you copied and pasted.
Well, I guess when you don't have anything else that's as good as you can do.
I particularly like the fact that you added the sentence:
Minimum wage adjusts with inflation it does not cause it to increase.
As if it is part of the FAQ when in fact it does not appear in the linked section at all and directly contradicts the text you copied and pasted.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 11:03 am to JustGetItRight
Did you see my edits? I removed my comments from what I copied and pasted. I posted a better link.
Sorry about the previous link. I got a little excited. New to this debate thing.
Sorry about the previous link. I got a little excited. New to this debate thing.
This post was edited on 2/25/16 at 11:19 am
Posted on 2/25/16 at 11:32 am to JustGetItRight
quote:You're missing his point. What's odd is how comfortable you are with them starving once they are born
I really isn't that hard to understand. A great number of us have a problem with murdering babies.
This post was edited on 2/25/16 at 11:41 am
Posted on 2/25/16 at 12:19 pm to The Spleen
quote:
In a perfect world, some could. Reality is very different though.
You start off by saying that in a perfect world some people could live off minimum wage, but reality is very different then that. You then proceed to give zero reasons as to why this is the case.
Why is it unreasonable to expect someone to work more hours or find a better paying job so they may have a cell phone and cable rather than demand a pay raise?
Labeling them "lazy freeloaders" is what keeps people from being able to achieve the American Dream?
I think that by-in-large it is due to a lack of personal responsibility. A mindset that is enabled by those who say things like "they're deemed unworthy of making a living wage". That is utter horse crap. I have never heard someone say that anyone is unworthy of earning a living wage. This is not the same as saying that a certain job might be unworthy of a living wage.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 12:27 pm to MIZ_COU
quote:
What's odd is how comfortable you are with them starving once they are born
Nobody's starving as long as we've still got the dollar menu. There are better ways to deal with problems than by murdering them.
What I find odd is how comfortable you (and others) are with killing unborn children because they might turn out to be criminals and cost you tax dollars.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 12:32 pm to pvilleguru
Who's denying them a higher wage? Do people not understand that wage is the price of labor? And that prices are determined by a market system through supply and demand? Why not just make minimum wage $50 an hour? Then everyone would be rich right?
Posted on 2/25/16 at 12:33 pm to TeLeFaWx
The Swiss still do not have a minimum wage.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 12:38 pm to OMapologist
quote:
Nobody's starving as long as we've still got the dollar menu.
Lol you're advocating that people eat the dollar menu for every meal? How do those with this thought process not see the obvious connections to why poor people remain poor? When solutions consist of "work harder", "don't have kids", and "get a better education", it's hard to take you people seriously.
The thought that poor people want to remain poor and collect "free money" is laughable. It is about as absurd as abortion should be illegal but We should also scale back social programs.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 12:41 pm to Robert Goulet
If you want people to be productive, then you should probably stop subsidizing unproductive behavior. It's amazing to me that some people find this obvious when talking about corporations, but it flies right over their heads when talking about individuals.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 12:46 pm to AllbyMyRelf
Specifically, what unproductive behaviors are we rewarding? Should there be no social programs? And please explain your comparison between people and corporations, I don't understand it.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 1:00 pm to AllbyMyRelf
quote:
The Swiss still do not have a minimum wage.
And it works out fine if you have collective bargaining. Which this country needs to start having a conversation about again.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 1:04 pm to OMapologist
quote:
You start off by saying that in a perfect world some people could live off minimum wage, but reality is very different then that. You then proceed to give zero reasons as to why this is the case.
Well, unless you've actually lived near the poverty line, or witnessed it firsthand, it's hard to explain. I'm sure you experience unexpected expenses in your life. Imagine if paying for the unexpected expense was the difference between eating that week or not. Not sacrificing a cell phone or cable bill, but actually eating that week. That is a decision people near poverty make all the time. Or imagine working 2 minimum wage jobs, and your manager at one of them is constantly scheduling you at a time that conflicts with the other job. Or not having a car and living in an area with no public transportation and relying on friends and family to get you to work, and one day you can't get a hold of any of them so you miss a shift and jeopardize your job.
quote:
Why is it unreasonable to expect someone to work more hours or find a better paying job so they may have a cell phone and cable rather than demand a pay raise?
I think the point you are missing is a lot of these people are working more hours. Many of them are working 2 or 3 different minimum wage jobs to make ends meet. Sure, it's unreasonable for someone working 20 hours a week at a fast food place to demand a pay raise. But again, it goes back to ignoring the reality of the situation for a lot of these workers.
quote:
Labeling them "lazy freeloaders" is what keeps people from being able to achieve the American Dream?
Now you're just being ridiculous, or you lack basic reading comprehension. Nowhere did I say that kept anyone from achieving the cliche "American Dream." The point was there are people like you that are going to vilify these people whether they are on public assistance or if they're working minimum wage and asking to make more so they can get off public assistance. They're damned if they do, and damned if they don't.
quote:
I have never heard someone say that anyone is unworthy of earning a living wage
Uh, that is exactly what some are saying in this very thread.
Yeesh.
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