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re: Biggest misconception of WW 2 was?
Posted on 2/28/17 at 11:03 am to sms151t
Posted on 2/28/17 at 11:03 am to sms151t
quote:
MacArthur was a hero in the Philippines?
Well he sure wasn't a hero to Army troops when he made his famous return, wading through the water with media and cameras ablaze. That's according to my father who fought in the Philippines and was there when MacArthur made the staged return photo op. I forget the details on why my father said that, but it has just always stayed in my mind because when my dad told that to me decades ago I was rather surprised.
Posted on 2/28/17 at 11:25 am to Tidemeister
He should have been court martialed but the USA could not take another scandal after Pearl Harbor. His dereliction of duty and ignoring orders is disgusting. The only reason they gave him the CMH was to boost American morale in a filtered press.
He left those men on Bataan to die a miserable death.
LINK
He left those men on Bataan to die a miserable death.
LINK
This post was edited on 2/28/17 at 11:28 am
Posted on 2/28/17 at 12:09 pm to sms151t
Not WWII related but I always liked this quote about Gen. MacArthur....
“I fired MacArthur because he wouldn’t respect the authority of the president. I didn’t fire him because he was a dumb son of a bitch, although he was.”
- Harry Truman
I think one of the biggest misconceptions about WWII, at least among Americans, is a belief that the US did the bulk of the fighting in Europe and basically won the war on it's own with some help from our Allies. Uncle Joe's Red Army paid the price in blood in Europe. Without the Red Army pinning down a huge percentage of the Wehrmacht on the Eastern Front, Overlord would have been way more risky and even if it had succeeded, the war would have taken much longer.
“I fired MacArthur because he wouldn’t respect the authority of the president. I didn’t fire him because he was a dumb son of a bitch, although he was.”
- Harry Truman
I think one of the biggest misconceptions about WWII, at least among Americans, is a belief that the US did the bulk of the fighting in Europe and basically won the war on it's own with some help from our Allies. Uncle Joe's Red Army paid the price in blood in Europe. Without the Red Army pinning down a huge percentage of the Wehrmacht on the Eastern Front, Overlord would have been way more risky and even if it had succeeded, the war would have taken much longer.
This post was edited on 2/28/17 at 12:10 pm
Posted on 2/28/17 at 12:55 pm to sms151t
quote:
He left those men on Bataan to die a miserable death.
Like I said earlier I'm not a big fan of MacArthur myself but didn't they have to order him to leave Bataan?
Posted on 2/28/17 at 1:07 pm to Wishnitwas1998
Well would they been able to put up a better fight and possibly been more equipped if he did not defy and sit on orders?
Depending on who you believe then that is how you answer that question.
When your own men call you out for desertion, that tells me who to side with.
Other reasons to dislike MacArthur as a leader after WW2.
Gave Ishii immunity but hanged Yamishita. Ishii was Japan's biological warfare guy and was using the agents. Yamashita was nowhere near Manila in the destruction and never gave the order, but he was executed.
All this said he was a great soldier but power corrupted him, after his stint as head of the US Military Academy he went sideways power hungry.
Depending on who you believe then that is how you answer that question.
When your own men call you out for desertion, that tells me who to side with.
Other reasons to dislike MacArthur as a leader after WW2.
Gave Ishii immunity but hanged Yamishita. Ishii was Japan's biological warfare guy and was using the agents. Yamashita was nowhere near Manila in the destruction and never gave the order, but he was executed.
All this said he was a great soldier but power corrupted him, after his stint as head of the US Military Academy he went sideways power hungry.
This post was edited on 2/28/17 at 1:20 pm
Posted on 2/28/17 at 4:26 pm to sms151t
quote:
Gave Ishii immunity
Wasn't he brought to the States to work in our own NBC programs?
Posted on 2/28/17 at 4:47 pm to The Spleen
quote:
Lot of people think Pearl Harbor was the trigger for us entering the war. In many ways, that is correct, but we had been moving military into position and building up the military for a few years in anticipation of entering the war. We even had some troops on
We had been in a shooting war in the Atlantic months before Pearl Harbor. Hell. It was an American pilot flying an American plane that located the Bismarck.
Posted on 2/28/17 at 7:09 pm to sms151t
Agreed on all fronts except maybe Bataan
Like I said I am not impressed with the guy either
Like I said I am not impressed with the guy either
Posted on 2/28/17 at 9:19 pm to Wishnitwas1998
That the source of the blitzcraig was great training, military discipline and equipment of the Germany military . It was actually crystal meth. That's why the attacks were 2-3 days. They didn't sleep eat etc as the soldiers were drugged up. That's also why they were so brutal
Posted on 3/1/17 at 8:39 am to Wishnitwas1998
quote:This was a ploy to cover his reputation. Throughout his career he was known for disobeying orders. But after he arranged this order to be sent he ran like the coward he was.
Like I said earlier I'm not a big fan of MacArthur myself but didn't they have to order him to leave Bataan?
Posted on 3/1/17 at 8:44 am to sms151t
quote:Terrible analogy. How many women and children did Sherman's troops kill?
I had a U of A professor (summer school) once try to explain what LeMay and Sherman did were similar.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 9:04 am to Coeur du Tigre
Sherman attacked an undefended land and burned it to the ground. Lemay attacked a still fighting and defended land. Sherman killed old men, boys, and women. Sherman was a war criminal, not some hero. His tactics in theory are correct, in his practice of them, not so much.
This post was edited on 3/1/17 at 9:06 am
Posted on 3/1/17 at 10:33 am to sms151t
I am surprised nobody else has mentioned Laval yet. While he did collaborate, he was trying to protect the citizens of France. He, in my opinion was smart to tell the everyday French people to stay out of the fight after D-Day to not incur reprisals. He kept a good majority of them from being slaves in the camps and did his best to keep food on their tables. He was the scapegoat for French.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 10:34 am to AUCatfish
But who paid for the equipment/food/etc to get that Russia properly ready for war?


Posted on 3/1/17 at 10:56 am to cubsfan5150
quote:
But who paid for the equipment/food/etc to get that Russia properly ready for war?
Oh there is no doubt that the Soviets would have been up shite creek even further without American aid. Without them seriously kicking the Wehrmacht's arse on the Eastern Front and tying down the bulk and honestly the best troops, the invasion of France would have been a different beast.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 11:48 am to AUCatfish
The Soviets would have been in trouble if the Germans would have stuck to the plan of going to the Caucuses and getting the oil. Hitler's pure hate of communism and the symbolic vision of destroying Stalingrad was just too much for him. Capturing the Kremlin would have accomplished nothing IMO. The oil was what they needed to focus on and goofed.
That being said, the Soviet regime would have bombed the oil fields and killed their own to make sure it never happened I bet. But if the English and Americans would have bombed it like planned, that changes everything and Russia may do what they did in WW1, just worry about themselves and then turn on the Allies.
That being said, the Soviet regime would have bombed the oil fields and killed their own to make sure it never happened I bet. But if the English and Americans would have bombed it like planned, that changes everything and Russia may do what they did in WW1, just worry about themselves and then turn on the Allies.
This post was edited on 3/1/17 at 11:51 am
Posted on 3/1/17 at 1:04 pm to AUCatfish
Americans tend to have an inflated idea of self worth when it comes to the European theater, yes our involvement help push the Nazis back, but we weren't the sole reason of victory in Europe. War in Europe was going much longer before the Americans even stepped foot in France, if Hitler wasn't a fricking idiot and turn on the Russians the war more than likely would have been very different
This post was edited on 3/1/17 at 1:08 pm
Posted on 3/1/17 at 1:29 pm to sms151t
quote:
Biggest misconception of WW 2 was?
That the USSR was completely dependent on lend-lease. The Reich stalled at Typhoon and then lost at Stalingrad without most of the lend-lease supplies coming in.
Germany would have still lost the war in the East and fighting in the West would've been at the same intensity. Lend-lease accelerated the advance West be the Soviets and helped end the war sooner.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 2:35 pm to King of the North
quote:
Americans tend to have an inflated idea of self worth when it comes to the European theater, yes our involvement help push the Nazis back, but we weren't the sole reason of victory in Europe.
Agreed. In my WWII history class in college, I learned that Hitler devoted about 80% of the German war effort to the eastern front against the USSR. US, UK and other allies only faced about 20%.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 2:54 pm to Tidemeister
Re the staged photo op of MacArthur's return, I've read in several different books that his staff's plans originally had him landing safely & dryly on a specially prepared dock. But the Navy operator of the landing craft, a lowly non com, disliked MacArthur so much he deliberately landed him short & off the mark. As the commander of any Naval vessel is the supreme commander of that vessel, MacArthur could not over rule him. It made for the famous photo op but MacArthur was reportedly furious at first. It was his plan to island hop instead of by passing the heavily fortified islands for mop up duty later, resulting in the heavy loss of life & wounded. He was far from well liked by the average soldier.
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