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re: Excited about Cards again this season
Posted on 3/9/14 at 10:58 pm to Sleeping Tiger
Posted on 3/9/14 at 10:58 pm to Sleeping Tiger
Yeah, all I saw I think is that it's a 4 year deal. Is that what you heard too? He'll probably start in Double A or maybe Triple A. Hope we didn't over spend for him either. The way everyone backed off gives me doubt that he is any kind of answer for the future.
Posted on 3/10/14 at 1:19 am to reedus23
4 years seems to be the number.
Would think we'll know dollars tomorrow when he reports.
Would think we'll know dollars tomorrow when he reports.
Posted on 3/10/14 at 9:21 am to Sleeping Tiger
Hearing just under 20 million. 
Posted on 3/10/14 at 10:09 am to reedus23
quote:
Hearing just under 20 million.
Wow, either the Cards are desperate, or he's closer to being ready than I thought.
I'm guessing they figure they have a solid year to bring him along.
Posted on 3/10/14 at 11:41 am to Remote Controlled
Well now a guy is saying those reports were wrong. It's closer to 8 million. Who knows. We'll find out soon enough I guess.
Posted on 3/10/14 at 1:07 pm to reedus23
Seeing 8 mil over 4 years, as well.
That is a steal considering the initial market was closer to 30, then first reports of this signing were close to 20.
That is a steal considering the initial market was closer to 30, then first reports of this signing were close to 20.
Posted on 3/10/14 at 1:12 pm to Sleeping Tiger
8 million is still a lot of money for unproven talent, but hey, it's not my money.
Well, I guess it is indirectly. But, whatever.
Well, I guess it is indirectly. But, whatever.
Posted on 3/10/14 at 1:25 pm to Remote Controlled
Not really, though.
2 million a year for a guy that will reach the majors within a year. Plus no signing bonus, which you'd have to give to a high draft pick.
2 million a year for a guy that will reach the majors within a year. Plus no signing bonus, which you'd have to give to a high draft pick.
Posted on 3/10/14 at 1:33 pm to Sleeping Tiger
Considering how far the market fell for this guy, I don't have a problem taking a flyer on him.
Had we paid $20-30 mil I'd question it.m
$8 mil is a much more comfortable number. He hasn't played in 18 months, so I'm sure his head will be spinning for a bit in AAA.
I think the clock is running on this guy right away, unlike a draft pick, so if he can contribute this year it will be a plus.
Had we paid $20-30 mil I'd question it.m
$8 mil is a much more comfortable number. He hasn't played in 18 months, so I'm sure his head will be spinning for a bit in AAA.
I think the clock is running on this guy right away, unlike a draft pick, so if he can contribute this year it will be a plus.
This post was edited on 3/10/14 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 3/14/14 at 11:08 am to Remote Controlled
So what's everyone's thoughts on Martinez. Has started 3 games, 10 IP, 1.80 ERA. Of the starters, only Wainwright has showed better at 1.69 but in half the innings. Kelly and Miller's ERA's are inflated but I understand they have also been working on new pitches. Lynn just had a strong outing, striking out 10 in 4 innings. Yes, that's 10 of 12 outs were strike outs.
Has Martinez done enough to get a shot in the starting rotation? Guess the obvious answer is that we're still early to make that call.
Has Martinez done enough to get a shot in the starting rotation? Guess the obvious answer is that we're still early to make that call.
Posted on 3/24/14 at 10:17 am to reedus23
Heard Kelly was named 5th starter and Martinez will be the set up man for now. Not sure how I feel about this. Kelly is good enough I suppose when we are talking about a number 5 starter, but I would have loved to have seen the rookie given a chance.
What do y'all think?
What do y'all think?
Posted on 3/24/14 at 12:47 pm to reedus23
This move was inevitable.
There never was a real competition.
With Motte's uncertainty, Garcia's possible return, and the apparent 160 innings cap on CMart, he was going to the pen.
Kelly deserves to be in the rotation.
But at the same time so does CMart.
I can't imagine one other organization in baseball putting an A+ elite starting pitcher in the bullpen.
I'm all for winning, but I think the Cards cross the line when it comes to disrupting the desired course of a players career.
Rosie is a starter, wants to be a starter, but he's gonna be a lifer in the pen. He's being molded to be a Kimbrel 2.0.
We often block guys that are ready for the majors and hold talent back until their mid-late 20s, then they play as cost controlled players through their prime.
Love the Cards, but they flirt with being unethical.
If I'm Sam Freeman I ask for a trade. He deserves to be in the majors, lefty with mid 90s heat and lots of control. A shame he was sent down, I wouldn't mind having 3 lefties to start the year with 6 of first 9 vs the Reds.
There never was a real competition.
With Motte's uncertainty, Garcia's possible return, and the apparent 160 innings cap on CMart, he was going to the pen.
Kelly deserves to be in the rotation.
But at the same time so does CMart.
I can't imagine one other organization in baseball putting an A+ elite starting pitcher in the bullpen.
I'm all for winning, but I think the Cards cross the line when it comes to disrupting the desired course of a players career.
Rosie is a starter, wants to be a starter, but he's gonna be a lifer in the pen. He's being molded to be a Kimbrel 2.0.
We often block guys that are ready for the majors and hold talent back until their mid-late 20s, then they play as cost controlled players through their prime.
Love the Cards, but they flirt with being unethical.
If I'm Sam Freeman I ask for a trade. He deserves to be in the majors, lefty with mid 90s heat and lots of control. A shame he was sent down, I wouldn't mind having 3 lefties to start the year with 6 of first 9 vs the Reds.
Posted on 3/24/14 at 1:04 pm to Sleeping Tiger
Sleeping, wake up. The cards have drafted well and players like Rosenthal jumped directly from AA ball. Wacha and Martinez pitched very little in AAA. Cost control is part of being a good organization. The players pay day will come. That is how the system is set up. I can't think of a single player the Cards have held back from the majors. Freeman has had several cups of coffee and would be on the roster if he threw more strikes.
Posted on 3/24/14 at 1:14 pm to Sleeping Tiger
quote:
There never was a real competition.
Kind of like QB competitions at Mizzou.
quote:
I can't imagine one other organization in baseball putting an A+ elite starting pitcher in the bullpen.
Ain't that the truth. I can't get over the number of quality starters in the system.
quote:
We often block guys that are ready for the majors and hold talent back until their mid-late 20s, then they play as cost controlled players through their prime.
Might still be too early to say for sure, but this seems to maybe be changing with Matheny at the helm. Under LaRussa, this was definitely the case. Even LaRussa was slightly better the last year or 2 at bringing up young guys, but he'd rather sign a veteran journeyman than bring up a Wong for example.
quote:
If I'm Sam Freeman I ask for a trade. He deserves to be in the majors, lefty with mid 90s heat and lots of control. A shame he was sent down, I wouldn't mind having 3 lefties to start the year with 6 of first 9 vs the Reds.
Who do you send down then? Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing them trade Lynn or even Kelly and go with the young guns. Not that I dislike either, but Lynn I think is up at the end of the year and is probably going to be asking for more money than we want to pay him with all the other arms we have coming up.
Posted on 3/24/14 at 1:22 pm to Stlweir
There isn't an franchise in baseball that would have a talent like CMart in the bullpen, not one. Cards are hoarding starting pitchers in their bullpen, which is borderline unethical.
Guys like Craig and Carp didn't get full seasons until their late 20s, of course Pujols was here. I have a feeling guys like Piscotty and Grichuk will get similar treatment. Most organizations trade guys that are ready if their position is blocked and fill other needs. Cards are smart, they take care of the franchise above the players interest.
I'm not necessarily blaming the Cardinals, I'm not pointing my finger at them, I'm just making the observation that we hold back talent and career paths more than other franchises.
Guys like Craig and Carp didn't get full seasons until their late 20s, of course Pujols was here. I have a feeling guys like Piscotty and Grichuk will get similar treatment. Most organizations trade guys that are ready if their position is blocked and fill other needs. Cards are smart, they take care of the franchise above the players interest.
I'm not necessarily blaming the Cardinals, I'm not pointing my finger at them, I'm just making the observation that we hold back talent and career paths more than other franchises.
Posted on 3/24/14 at 1:28 pm to reedus23
quote:
Might still be too early to say for sure, but this seems to maybe be changing with Matheny at the helm. Under LaRussa, this was definitely the case. Even LaRussa was slightly better the last year or 2 at bringing up young guys, but he'd rather sign a veteran journeyman than bring up a Wong for example.
You're right. Matheny and Mo definitely value youth more than TLR and Jocketty. There is definitely a visible shift in the organization.
quote:
Who do you send down then? Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing them trade Lynn or even Kelly and go with the young guns. Not that I dislike either, but Lynn I think is up at the end of the year and is probably going to be asking for more money than we want to pay him with all the other arms we have coming up.
I can see why Kelly would be traded, but I'd hate to lose him. He's a competitor and looks like he has that loose arm that will stay healthy.
Lynn is my first choice to be traded, but I have to think other teams are just as aware as we are that his win totals the last 2 years have a great deal to do with luck and run support.
I wish he never came out of the pen, and both Kelly and CMart were in the rotation. I like that big body in the bullpen.
I don't know how Freeman fits on this team, you're right, too many bodies. I just think he's major league ready, a shame there isn't a spot for him.
This post was edited on 3/24/14 at 1:29 pm
Posted on 3/24/14 at 2:16 pm to Sleeping Tiger
Freeman will get called up and throw out of the bullpen I'd bet this year. I don't when a starters spot would open up. I'd imagine we'd have to lose Garcia, Kelly and Lynn before he'd pitch as a starter. I've been telling my brother for a year now that we are going to HAVE to trade some of the young pitching. Not sure for who or what position, but we just have a back log of it and it's going to go to waste. Why not improve the team by trading someone who is never going to see the field for your big league team and in exchange get someone who can help.
Posted on 3/24/14 at 2:31 pm to reedus23
As the saying goes, you can never have enough pitching.
Posted on 3/24/14 at 2:38 pm to reedus23
quote:
've been telling my brother for a year now that we are going to HAVE to trade some of the young pitching.
I'd guess it will be Lynn, but maybe not for another year.
He and Waino are the only guys on the staff to throw big innings.
I don't see them giving him up until next winter or season.
Can't see them trying to extend him with the better young arms we have, next year will be a good time to trade him.
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