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Elite Recruiting and why this argument bugs me.
Posted on 11/28/18 at 12:31 pm
Posted on 11/28/18 at 12:31 pm
Certain Podcasts hit the panic button early in June, talking about how Dan Mullen was struggling to recruit and that we would be lucky to finish 20th. They said by August 1st, our percentage of blue-chips would be consistent by the end of the year. We finished August 1st with 25% of our class being blue-chips.
We're now sitting at 56% (more than double what they claimed) and we have real shots at many more blue-chips.
I think what bothers me the most is: No one is arguing recruiting doesn't matter, I think the argument is that "ELITE" Recruiting (top 5 classes) is not necessary to win a national championship, or even be in the CFP. If that's our measurement on Elite, then why in the past 4 years (that we've had the CFP) are Elite and Non-Elite recruiting teams represented evenly?
2017: UGA, Bama, Clemson, OU (2 elite, 2 non-elite) 2016: Wash, Clemson, OSU, Bama. (2 - 2)
2015: OU, Clemson, Bama, MSU (1 - 3)
2014: Bama, UO, Ohio State, FSU (3 - 1)
Alabama is in a league of its own (recruiting elite talent and having elite coaching), and so I think they are more of an anomaly than the other direction (non-elite recruiting teams). Removing Alabama from the equation, and I think the parity is a lot more evident -- it just so happens they had lightning strike twice. (Much like us with Meyer when he was at Florida.)
Sorry to rant to you guys, but these recruiting wonks (who completely whiffed on Mullen's recruiting) need to change the record.
We're now sitting at 56% (more than double what they claimed) and we have real shots at many more blue-chips.
I think what bothers me the most is: No one is arguing recruiting doesn't matter, I think the argument is that "ELITE" Recruiting (top 5 classes) is not necessary to win a national championship, or even be in the CFP. If that's our measurement on Elite, then why in the past 4 years (that we've had the CFP) are Elite and Non-Elite recruiting teams represented evenly?
2017: UGA, Bama, Clemson, OU (2 elite, 2 non-elite) 2016: Wash, Clemson, OSU, Bama. (2 - 2)
2015: OU, Clemson, Bama, MSU (1 - 3)
2014: Bama, UO, Ohio State, FSU (3 - 1)
Alabama is in a league of its own (recruiting elite talent and having elite coaching), and so I think they are more of an anomaly than the other direction (non-elite recruiting teams). Removing Alabama from the equation, and I think the parity is a lot more evident -- it just so happens they had lightning strike twice. (Much like us with Meyer when he was at Florida.)
Sorry to rant to you guys, but these recruiting wonks (who completely whiffed on Mullen's recruiting) need to change the record.
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Posted on 11/28/18 at 12:34 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
Certain Podcasts hit the panic button early in June
Stop listening to them.
Posted on 11/28/18 at 12:39 pm to BloodSweat&Beers
I don't, I unsubscribed a long time ago but I still see these bizarre arguments surface all over the Gatorsphere about recruiting.
It's weird watching these people grift Gator fans into thinking the staff isn't putting in the work or logging the hours and then watching those same people unnecessarily criticize the staff.
It's weird watching these people grift Gator fans into thinking the staff isn't putting in the work or logging the hours and then watching those same people unnecessarily criticize the staff.
This post was edited on 11/28/18 at 12:52 pm
Posted on 11/28/18 at 12:51 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Mullen and the staff are knocking down doors on the trail. This season may have a top 15 class but next season will tell us what we need to know. Plus, winning next season cures all ills as recruits will see what he can do on the field.
Posted on 11/28/18 at 1:02 pm to dbuchanon
I trust Mullen even if his classes are at 12 and below. We know and have literally seen that he can take weak recruiting classes (that he had no exposure to, since he's in his first year as HC) and make them look dynamic.
This isn't like McElwain winning 10 games, you can see that the team is much better coached in fundamentals and even our penalties have gone way down.
I prefer elite coaching with good talent over elite talent with good coaching -- because we can't expect to be Alabama (Elite with Elite), but the best we can do right now is have Elite Coaching.
This isn't like McElwain winning 10 games, you can see that the team is much better coached in fundamentals and even our penalties have gone way down.
I prefer elite coaching with good talent over elite talent with good coaching -- because we can't expect to be Alabama (Elite with Elite), but the best we can do right now is have Elite Coaching.
Posted on 11/28/18 at 1:07 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
I prefer elite coaching with good talent over elite talent with good coaching
This all day. I think with a Jones kid out there, we will give Bama some fits. Our defense is always solid and Sabans defenses dont do as well vs dual threat QBs.
Posted on 11/28/18 at 1:36 pm to dbuchanon
Dual-threat with the spread? You have to go back 7 years just to find a conventional offense that beat Alabama.
Since then:
Ole Miss (x2, not an elite recruiting team)
Auburn (x2, not an elite recruiting team)
A&M (not an elite recruiting team)
Oklahoma (not an elite recruiting team at the time)
Ohio State (an elite recruiting team)
Clemson (had one top ten class leading up to their championship -- the same year)
Only one team that beat Alabama actually recruited at an elite level, the rest (including OSU) have one thing in common:
Spread offenses.
Dan Mullen will be able to compete sooner than people think, and I know that even with ~12th ranked classes he will be a force to be reckoned with.
If we get better classes, so be it, but x's and o's matters a great deal.
Since then:
Ole Miss (x2, not an elite recruiting team)
Auburn (x2, not an elite recruiting team)
A&M (not an elite recruiting team)
Oklahoma (not an elite recruiting team at the time)
Ohio State (an elite recruiting team)
Clemson (had one top ten class leading up to their championship -- the same year)
Only one team that beat Alabama actually recruited at an elite level, the rest (including OSU) have one thing in common:
Spread offenses.
Dan Mullen will be able to compete sooner than people think, and I know that even with ~12th ranked classes he will be a force to be reckoned with.
If we get better classes, so be it, but x's and o's matters a great deal.
Posted on 11/28/18 at 1:41 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Clemson shouldve beaten Saban twice tbh.
Posted on 11/28/18 at 1:42 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
Dan Mullen will be able to compete sooner than people think, and I know that even with ~12th ranked classes he will be a force to be reckoned with.
Posted on 11/28/18 at 2:12 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
Dual-threat with the spread? You have to go back 7 years just to find a conventional offense that beat Alabama.
Since then:
Ole Miss (x2, not an elite recruiting team)
Auburn (x2, not an elite recruiting team)
A&M (not an elite recruiting team)
Oklahoma (not an elite recruiting team at the time)
Ohio State (an elite recruiting team)
Clemson (had one top ten class leading up to their championship -- the same year)
Only one team that beat Alabama actually recruited at an elite level, the rest (including OSU) have one thing in common:
Spread offenses.
Dan Mullen will be able to compete sooner than people think, and I know that even with ~12th ranked classes he will be a force to be reckoned with.
If we get better classes, so be it, but x's and o's matters a great deal.
Auburn has elite recruiting. Top 10 consistently. Ole Miss had elite recruiting before they beat Bama. Multiple 5*s in one class is elite.
Posted on 11/28/18 at 2:34 pm to BloodSweat&Beers
quote:
Auburn has elite recruiting. Top 10 consistently. Ole Miss had elite recruiting before they beat Bama. Multiple 5*s in one class is elite.
The difference between a talent composite from eighth (Auburn) to 1 - 5 is absolutely damning.
5-stars on Team:
Alabama: 16
Georgia: 11
Auburn: 4
4-stars on Team:
Alabama: 51
Georgia: 43
Auburn: 41
That's for 2017. Auburn beat a team with triple the 5-stars they had (almost, should say) and a team that quadrupled the 5-stars they had in the same regular season.
Elite recruiting is not necessary to win championships is my entire premise. The only fault Auburn had is that they had to play three Playoff teams in the same regular season.
Posted on 11/28/18 at 7:02 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
I concur and I believe a solid foundation with great coaching will take us where we want to be ...soon.
Mullen immediately got our team to fully buy in. Then he pushed all the right buttons. He assembled a very good staff and a great S&C in Savage that change things going forward.
Mullen immediately got our team to fully buy in. Then he pushed all the right buttons. He assembled a very good staff and a great S&C in Savage that change things going forward.
Posted on 11/29/18 at 9:11 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
I agree to an extent but to beat Bama we have to land some top ten classes with high class average rankings to get the depth needed in the SEC, and have talent enough to compete with that monster.
I’m not worried about it right now. I believe Mullen closes strong he did a great job last year even with early signing.
I’m not worried about it right now. I believe Mullen closes strong he did a great job last year even with early signing.
Posted on 11/29/18 at 9:36 pm to Gatorbait2008
I mean, to beat Alabama NOW, Mullen would need to be coaching here for at least 5 years beforehand, building it up and all that jazz.
No one is beating Alabama with Tua at the helm right now, period. That's a generational Quarterback on a team surrounded by 5-stars.
We would need a better QB, like better than Tebow.
Right now we need to rebuild the brand and take out Georgia, which will be a lot easier.
We were literally within one possession deep into the 4th Quarter while grossly outclassed talent wise -- while losing the Turnover battle (greatly).
UGA:
14 5-stars.
47 4-stars.
UF:
2 5-stars.
33 4-stars.
If we can keep it close with a team this lacking in the talent department, we will do much better as time goes on. Mullen is on course to have his second 63% Blue-Chip class (above it, I think).
We need good recruiting to lead to elite recruiting, but most of all we need a coach who can do more with less.
No one is beating Alabama with Tua at the helm right now, period. That's a generational Quarterback on a team surrounded by 5-stars.
We would need a better QB, like better than Tebow.
Right now we need to rebuild the brand and take out Georgia, which will be a lot easier.
We were literally within one possession deep into the 4th Quarter while grossly outclassed talent wise -- while losing the Turnover battle (greatly).
UGA:
14 5-stars.
47 4-stars.
UF:
2 5-stars.
33 4-stars.
If we can keep it close with a team this lacking in the talent department, we will do much better as time goes on. Mullen is on course to have his second 63% Blue-Chip class (above it, I think).
We need good recruiting to lead to elite recruiting, but most of all we need a coach who can do more with less.
This post was edited on 11/29/18 at 9:38 pm
Posted on 11/29/18 at 11:22 pm to BloodSweat&Beers
quote:
Ole Miss had elite recruiting before they beat Bama
$$$$$$$
Posted on 11/29/18 at 11:28 pm to Gatorbait2008
quote:
I agree to an extent but to beat Bama we have to land some top ten classes with high class average rankings to get the depth needed in the SEC, and have talent enough to compete with that monster.
I believe this was the first year in a long time the talent gap between UF and UGA was exposed. It was obvious watching it to me that our DB depth (and QB play) lost us that game. Coaching wise, we are set with Mullen. And I agree that once the W's start stacking up the talent will come.
Posted on 11/30/18 at 7:28 am to OkefenokeeKid
quote:
I believe this was the first year in a long time the talent gap between UF and UGA was exposed. It was obvious watching it to me that our DB depth (and QB play) lost us that game. Coaching wise, we are set with Mullen. And I agree that once the W's start stacking up the talent will come.
Mullen's biggest strength is development. Savage to get them in shape and the staff to teach them their position.
Turned Polite from a solid DT-DE into a 1st rd DE/OLB. Good sign of what Mullen's program can do in just one year.
Posted on 11/30/18 at 10:55 am to BloodSweat&Beers
Spurrier also developed his players. I never heard about him winning recruiting titles while at Florida. He got the best out of his players.
I see Mullen doing the same thing. Makes me very hopeful.
I see Mullen doing the same thing. Makes me very hopeful.
Posted on 11/30/18 at 11:08 am to TDFreak
quote:
"Why is it that during recruiting season they sign all the great players, but when it comes time to play the game, we have all the great players? I don't understand that. What happens to them?"
-Steve Spurrier
Posted on 11/30/18 at 11:19 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
If we want to beat Bama and championships then we need to average atleast top 10 recruiting classes. It’s going to be hard to beat Bama when they have better players at almost every position. I think once the offense gets gets the kinks worked out then we should start running some hurry up . I think we have the right system to win championship and beat Bama but we need the players now.
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