quote:
Where did I say "every doctor" or "every case"?

You backed yourself in a corner and are now putting words in my mouth that I never said just to try and get yourself out

It was implied. Don't try and play dumb now. Re-read your statement. If you want to clarify it now, that's fine. But you said what you said without any clarification or context. I have put no words in your mouth.

quote:
I said that the 80,000 number wasn't really accurate, and you said it was.

No numbers came from me. I didn't say a percentage because my argument is based on nobody definitely knowing, and that was always my point.

They are undoubtedly classifying some of those 80,000 as COVID deaths wrongly, and your replies flat out claimed I was wrong. Which means your claim is that the 80,000 is accurate. You even said verbatim, it's accurate.

But NOW look at you. Suddenly you're saying it's not definite, and being hyperbolic and acting like I said some huge number when I never did.

You're being an a-hole here, and I'm pretty sure you know it.

As far as anyone on the outside of this is concerned, it's accurate. If 80k people have died while being COVID-positive, there's no way for us to know which ones MAY have died of something else. What we know is that they are dead and they had COVID. It is reasonable to assume that those facts are not coincidental. If you disagree, so be it.

quote:
Well isn't that convenient.

You don't know what I've posted in this thread, but you didn't have a problem claiming all I've posted in this thread is far-right Facebook meme bullshite.

Again... you... a-hole.

Never said anything about "all you have posted". I was speaking to the post that I responded to at the time. And you still sound like a Facebook meme.

quote:
LOLWTF?

I say the 80,000 number is merely inaccurate because doctors and hospitals and municipalities can't be 100% certain.

YOU claim it's accurate and I'm wrong.

But now you're saying doctors and hospitals can't be 100% certain.

And I'm supposedly the one off point?

WTF, man....

You didn't say they were "a little off" on the numbers. You have implied (and even here now, outright stated) that the numbers we have are the result of rampant corruption and deception in order to pad the pockets of hospital administrators. I've said from the get-go that doctors can't be 100%, but that where COVID is involved, they have, generally speaking, made reasonable connections to patients' deaths.

quote:
Why do I have to know how to handle it?

Just tell me what constitutes a COVID death for you. That's the only question that needs to be answered here. You tell me what a person has to die of for it to be classified as a COVID death.

quote:
All I know is there's a lot of bullshite politics going on with this thing, and those numbers getting thrown around are being used in political arguments by government officials who actually make decisions that effect our lives.

And I'm just one of the many MANY folks that's pissed off about it because our government, BOTH SIDES, along with corporatists and unscrupulous profiteers, have ZERO credibility and are most assuredly exploiting this thing one way or another for an agenda that will likely hurt people somehow.

I'm not just being cynical about it, either. Politicians, their cronies, and money-grubbing fricks have proven time and time again that they are liars, thieves, and cheats, and they will do and say anything to sustain their status or political power.

The Democrats and Doomers want so bad for that 80,000 number to sound bad and even be worse. They'd never admit it, and in fact would surely deny it, but they can't help but prove post after post that they are using it as an excuse to demean and hate on Trump and anyone that isn't "on their side".

These are the same fricking people who just spent 3+ years propagating lies and spinning bullshite to try and oust a duly elected President. They aren't honest and they have no integrity or credibility.

There freaking fraud and dishonesty everywhere all around us at all times. Droves of it as far as the eye can see. Year after year. Lie after lie. Our tax dollars essentially being stolen by lawmakers on a goddamn daily basis.

Okay, there's a lot of frustration here. I get it. I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying, but you're venturing off into tinfoil-hat-land. You say you don't care about political leanings, but I think you do. Regardless of side, you're not a fan of how the politics has been injected into this whole thing and I understand that. And I agree that it's happening. Personally, I am trying to separate and pay no attention to the politics and I'm not buying into one narrative or the other. Independent of all of that, whether it's 50k or 80k, these people are dead. As far as being accurate, 80k people tested positive for COVID and died. I have no way to reliably refute the number and I still believe that COVID+DEAD is generally not coincidental.

quote:
And yet, in this one case, you want to believe it's all accurate and legit?

*sigh* SMH

You can't spend your entire life thinking that everyone is intentionally lying to you. I have no issue with being skeptical. But give or take, I believe the numbers being put out are a good-faith representation of what's going on until someone can produce some compelling evidence that doesn't involve anecdotal stories or outliers.

quote:
You said the number was accurate. You said I was wrong. You said I'm such a dolt that I'm just parroting rightwing Facebook memes. And now you're putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.

And you don't think you've insulted me? And you wonder why I'm a pejorative spitting fool at you?

Dude, you need some serious introspection.

I know I'm an a-hole, but only to other assholes.

The number is as accurate as far as you or I know. I have no doubt there is some variance and that what you're concerned about is happening from time to time. The difference is that I don't believe that's happening nearly as often as you seem to think it is. You may be right. But we have no way to prove that.

And let's be clear. I have not once called you a dolt. I don't even think I've called you a name yet.

But I am simply making an observation when I tell you that your post, to which I originally responded, read like a Facebook meme. And I stand by that. Personally, I wouldn't get bent out of shape and uber-offended by that. You keep this up and you'll die of a heart attack and be labeled a COVID death according to your order of things.

Dude, chill out. We don't agree. It's fine. Nothing for you to raise your blood pressure over. Take a break. I am.

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Posted by BeefDawg

Atlanta

Member since Sep 2012

4747 posts

Posted on 5/14/20 at 6:24 pm to S1C EM

quote:
It was implied. Don't try and play dumb now. Re-read your statement. If you want to clarify it now, that's fine. But you said what you said without any clarification or context. I have put no words in your mouth.

LOL, no it wasn't.

WTF kind of rationale is this?

One of your first replies to me was you claiming I said "ALL" doctors. You even put the fricking word in caps.

Literally you came out the gate putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.

And your logic that it was implied is ridiculously flawed, which is why you're full of shite.

I said the 80,000 was inaccurate. I didn't say all 80,000 was fraud and bullshite. Which would be completely asinine. Not to mention, AGAIN, I included municipalities. Therefore, by default, this means not all doctors involved made bogus declarations because not every one of those 80,000 declarations involved a fricking MD.

Again, you do realize millions of people die every year and it didn't happen in a hospital where some MD declared time of death, right?

So it makes no sense to claim there was an "implied" "ALL doctors". So GTFO with that shite.

quote:
As far as anyone on the outside of this is concerned, it's accurate. If 80k people have died while being COVID-positive, there's no way for us to know which ones MAY have died of something else. What we know is that they are dead and they had COVID. It is reasonable to assume that those facts are not coincidental. If you disagree, so be it.

It's not that I disagree, it's that you clearly don't understand the concept that if "guesswork" is involved, and there's "no way for us to know which ones MAY have died of something else", then this also means we don't know which ones MAY have died of COVID, either.

I don't know how much might be fraud, that's why I didn't and still won't give a guess. And I've made that point clear from the beginning, too.

What I do know is the government is untrustworthy and has an absurdly long track-record of exploiting situations like this for an abusive political and economic agenda, there's a clear political narrative exploiting this situation permeating the Left and Leftwing media in favor of that number hopefully being as large as possible so it can be used as a narrative weapon, and there is a consistent tens of billions a year in healthcare fraud by doctors and hospitals who took the Hippocratic Oath.

For Christ's sake, NYC had a day a few weeks back where they added 3,700 cases out of the blue to their COVID death total number, and then admitted these were just "presumed COVID deaths", and that many of the people had simply been found dead at their homes/nursing homes/on the street(homeless) and weren't even tested and had not even seen a doctor for treatment.

The city has added more than 3,700 additional people who were presumed to have died of the coronavirus but had never tested positive. - The New York Times

But yeah, so accurate. 3,700 un-fricking-tested, no doctor-seeing, "presumed" COVID deaths.

quote:
You didn't say they were "a little off" on the numbers.

I didn't say ANY number, you jackwagon.

quote:
You have implied (and even here now, outright stated) that the numbers we have are the result of rampant corruption and deception in order to pad the pockets of hospital administrators.

No I fricking didn't "outright state" shite. And I never used the word "rampant" either.

I even explained to someone else that there was 3-10% attributed to fraud in healthcare by the FBI and OBA. In what fricking universe is 3-10% "rampant" and implies "ALL"?

And you don't think you're putting words in my mouth???

You got a fricking screw loose, dude.

quote:
Just tell me what constitutes a COVID death for you. That's the only question that needs to be answered here. You tell me what a person has to die of for it to be classified as a COVID death.

Why do I have to do this? WTF does this have to do with me saying the 80,000 number is likely inaccurate and you insisting I'm wrong for saying that?

I clearly pointed at people with pre-existing conditions and people with extenuating circumstances (car accident, homeless, morbidly obese, 95 years old... remember my examples?). This alone is more proof that I wasn't possibly implying "ALL", as it's obvious not every COVID death involved a person with pre-ex or extenuating circumstances.

If you're accusing me of "implying" anything, look no further than there, where I very obviously listed sub-standard examples.

Because you know what that implies? It implies I'm only talking about fricking sub-standard examples, and not "ALL".

quote:
You can't spend your entire life thinking that everyone is intentionally lying to you. I have no issue with being skeptical. But give or take, I believe the numbers being put out are a good-faith representation of what's going on until someone can produce some compelling evidence that doesn't involve anecdotal stories or outliers.

Again with the hyperbole.

I don't think "everyone" is intentionally lying to me.

Why are you constantly using extremes to try and make your arguments?

I believe the Left is trying their best to inflate the number of COVID deaths because they think they can use that to demean Trump and anyone who doesn't side with them.

I believe not all doctors and hospitals are honest and there absolutely is exploitation of the CARES Act for profit. And btw, by saying "not all" does NOT mean I'm saying the extreme opposite. It just means "not all". So don't be a tard and make a bullshite "you implied" claim again.

And I believe the government, especially the Democrats and anti-Trumpers, are trying to make this entire situation appear and feel worse than it really is because they think it will allow them to propagate a negative narrative and hopefully get rid of Trump in November.

And if Trump wins again, I am 1000% certain they will try to use something in this to manufacture another set of hearings and possibly impeachment trials. So they need this shite to appear as bad as possible. And if you watch the Lefty media, it's beyond obvious they are trying to do this. Which means none of these number can definitively be trusted, and calling them inaccurate is perfectly reasonable.

And for anyone to act like this is unreasonable or conspiratorial is naive as frick. They'd have to have been asleep the past 3 years, or they're simply a dishonest leftist hack.

quote:
And let's be clear. I have not once called you a dolt. I don't even think I've called you a name yet. But I am simply making an observation when I tell you that your post, to which I originally responded, read like a Facebook meme. And I stand by that. Personally, I wouldn't get bent out of shape and uber-offended by that. You keep this up and you'll die of a heart attack and be labeled a COVID death according to your order of things.

Dude, chill out. We don't agree. It's fine. Nothing for you to raise your blood pressure over. Take a break. I am.

LOL, don't you worry about me. There are people on this forum who know me IRL, and they laugh everytime they see me post because they no "angry Beef" is just my Rant shtick.

You're not the first to get the wrath of my profanity laced rage posts and you certainly won't be the last.

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